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Posted: 9/25/2011 12:20:58 AM EDT
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I've been researching some less expensive weapons lights options. I was wondering what the general consensus is here for companies like 4Sevens, Fenix, or Olight?
Do you feel that the products from those companies are a less expensive but quality alternative to surefire? Also, on a sidenote, in some of the reviews I've been reading, I hear "Throw" referred to often. I looked up "Throw" here in the FAQ but was curious....if I'm purchasing a weapons light to mount for mainly indoor use on a home-defense weapon...what is more important, Throw or Flood? I understand that getting up past 200 lumens and I risk blinding myself when illuminating a light colored wall. I was just curious on what quality makes the best weapon light for defending your home. Thanks! |
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TLR-1 is a good option.
4Sevens is a favorite of many people over at CPF, and it's my favorite too. They are good quality (chinese made, but still good quality) and since they are based in the USA (not China, like some companies) you get great customer support. Not all of their lights have a spring at the front, so while they would probably work fine, there's alway a chance that the recoil could crack the circuit board. Their Maelstrom lights (or at least some of them) have a spring up front and are weapons-mountable. I always also recommend HDS systems. For whatever reason, they are not that popular outside of CPF, but they are probably the best around. The entry-level model is $99. |
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Thanks for the responses guys. That actually helps quite a bit.
So let me narrow this down a bit and maybe you can share your opinion. Now that I know that for home defense indoors, flood is more important than throw, I'm looking for lights that sacrifice some throw for some flood and better spill. I looked up the streamlight but didn't particular care for it. Cosmetics I guess. I'm hemming and hawing between the following options, for a brand new (not used) item from most expensive to least expensive: 1) Surefire Scout M600C with Mount & Tape Switch 2) VTAC L4 (Surefire) with Mount & Tape Switch 3) 4Sevens Maelstrom X7 with Mount & Tape Switch (The reviews say the X7 has more flood & spill while the G5 has more throw). 4) Fenix TK11 or TK15 Of the Three. The Surefire Scout is way way way more expensive than the other options. The VTAC L4 is the middle ground. The 4Sevens Maelstrom seems the best bang for buck. Its by far the least expensive even with mount & tape switch and I read good reviews on it and 4Sevens. What I'd like to know is which of the above options is the best for my intended use with an eye to price/performance (mounted on my AR15 for indoor home defense primarily and possibly outdoor home defense as well). I'm not a professional (law enforcement or military). I'd lean towards the 4Sevens light as the Surefires are so expensive...but maybe I'm missing something and the Surefires just plain are way better for my intended purpose and I'm missing the ball. I don't want to save money on the 4Sevens and then later find out that it just isn't going to cut it for my purpose and have to buy something else anyway. |
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What I'd like to know is which of the above options is the best for my intended use with an eye to price/performance (mounted on my AR15 for indoor home defense primarily and possibly outdoor home defense as well). I'm not a professional (law enforcement or military). I'd lean towards the 4Sevens light as the Surefires are so expensive...but maybe I'm missing something and the Surefires just plain are way better for my intended purpose and I'm missing the ball. I don't want to save money on the 4Sevens and then later find out that it just isn't going to cut it for my purpose and have to buy something else anyway. OK, for surefire versus 4sevens, here's who I think wins: Price (bang for buck): 4Sevens by far Brightness and efficiency: 4Sevens by far Quality: Surefire (but not by too much) Customer service: Surefire (both are good, but surefire is awesome) In my case, I don't see any reason not to use 4Sevens. Surefire is, IMHO, way overpriced. They are able to be because of their military monopoly and all the hype that that creates. The only product I might buy from surefire is a host, and then I would just slap a Malkoff module in there. |
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if you want to deal with clicking through 13 disco-modes and brightness levels when you really just need one button, then go for the fenix/olight/etc.
I'll start buying fenix/olight/4sevens, etc for weapon-mounted roles when the military starts buying them for those roles. |
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if you want to deal with clicking through 13 disco-modes and brightness levels when you really just need one button, then go for the fenix/olight/etc. I'll start buying fenix/olight/4sevens, etc for weapon-mounted roles when the military starts buying them for those roles. This is the reason I don't put anything other than surefire or streamlight on my guns. I have a couple of fenix lights for hand held use but due to complexity of the interface I don't use them on rifles. I don't like anything that has multiple modes as a weapon light unless you have to turn the bezel to change the output (surefire vampire for example). Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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if you want to deal with clicking through 13 disco-modes and brightness levels when you really just need one button, then go for the fenix/olight/etc. I'll start buying fenix/olight/4sevens, etc for weapon-mounted roles when the military starts buying them for those roles. This is the reason I don't put anything other than surefire or streamlight on my guns. I have a couple of fenix lights for hand held use but due to complexity of the interface I don't use them on rifles. I don't like anything that has multiple modes as a weapon light unless you have to turn the bezel to change the output (surefire vampire for example). Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Good point. I don't know what the UI on the maelstroms is like, so I can't really argue with that. But if you want to have a single-mode only light, I would go with an Elzetta or Surefire or some other nice host with a Malkoff LED module. |
| I had this same issue and ended up going with the Surefire 6P defender w/click-on tailcap (I dont like the idea of pressure switches) and a VTAC mount and got it for just over $100. Very reasonable I believe for an aluminum bodied light with LED, click tailcap and solid mount. |
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Good point. I don't know what the UI on the maelstroms is like, so I can't really argue with that. But if you want to have a single-mode only light, I would go with an Elzetta or Surefire or some other nice host with a Malkoff LED module.
The X7 and G5 were designed as tactical lights, especially for weapon mounting. They don't have springs up front because the batteries do not move inside the light. The cap is design to compress either 123s or an 18650 up against the head to the point where recoil will not affect it. Regarding the interface, the is only one mode as long as you are hitting the rear switch. You can rotate the head to switch to other modes, but you don't have to do that if you don't want to. Max output is always there unless you want something else. For the OP, the X7 is going to give you a really floody beam compared to the G5 if you are considering the two mountable Maelstrom models. I think it would make a great indoors light. We have videos comparing the two if you want to check them out. |
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Regarding the interface, the is only one mode as long as you are hitting the rear switch. You can rotate the head to switch to other modes, but you don't have to do that if you don't want to. Max output is always there unless you want something else.
For the OP, the X7 is going to give you a really floody beam compared to the G5 if you are considering the two mountable Maelstrom models. I think it would make a great indoors light. We have videos comparing the two if you want to check them out. I was actually looking at the 4Sevens Maelstrom X7 as a possibiliy (As well as some of the less expensive surefires, some of the Fenix lights that do not utilize a pushbutton mode switch, and some of the 4Sevens Quark Turbos). I watched some of those reviews on YouTube, as well as those by NutnFancy and they all said great things. What I'm concerned about is the power on it actually. The 4Sevens website lists the following stats for the Maelstrom X7: High: 480 Lumens Medium: 270 Lumens Low: 30 Lumens Moonlight: .3 Lumens So if I keep the bezel of the light cranked all the way to high (Following that KISS rule for weapon mount lights) then that puts it all the way up on high. It seems that 480 Lumens would blind the heck out of me indoors. I've read a FAQ here that says 200-225 lumens (something along those lines) is about the max you'd want indoors or I'd blind myself hitting a light colored wall. Trying to tone down that light by moving the Bezel to "Medium" at 270 Lumens would mean the Bezel isn't all the way right or left, leaving the possibility open to accidentally not have it where I want it. Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges in comparing the lumens to the lumens listed for other lights? Maybe floody lights like the Maelstrom aren't as likely to blind me at high lumens? It sure seems like a nice light, and bang for buck it seems to have it. I just don't want to get myself into trouble while I'm fiddling trying to find medium because high is too bright? Or will that be unlikely to be an issue? |
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It seems that 480 Lumens would blind the heck out of me indoors.
It all depends on your sensitivity to light & how much light you need to see clearly. I had a Malkoff M61 in my bored SF C2 and it was pretty bright to eyes that are 62 years old. The Malkoff was replaced with a direct drive XM-L (1000 bulb lumens & 700 lumens OTF). It's not too bright for me & allows me to quickly pick up the small sights on the Glock 23. If you're a lot younger & your eyes are more sensitive it might be too much for you. FWIW, you probably will not notice too much diff between 480L and 270L indoors. Outdoors it makes a huge difference. |
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if you want to deal with clicking through 13 disco-modes and brightness levels when you really just need one button, then go for the fenix/olight/etc. I'll start buying fenix/olight/4sevens, etc for weapon-mounted roles when the military starts buying them for those roles. This is the reason I don't put anything other than surefire or streamlight on my guns. I have a couple of fenix lights for hand held use but due to complexity of the interface I don't use them on rifles. I don't like anything that has multiple modes as a weapon light unless you have to turn the bezel to change the output (surefire vampire for example). Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile on the fenix tk12 r5 all you have to do is turn the bezel to switch from bright light to strobe. you can easily tell what its on with no eyes. if your twisting it and it wont move your on the solid bright light if your not at the end of the thread your on strobe. sounds simple to me... the tk12 r5 throws a nice beam and the splash is very useable for HD or CQB. im trying to kill mine and cant get it done. |
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So if I keep the bezel of the light cranked all the way to high (Following that KISS rule for weapon mount lights) then that puts it all the way up on high. It seems that 480 Lumens would blind the heck out of me indoors. I've read a FAQ here that says 200-225 lumens (something along those lines) is about the max you'd want indoors or I'd blind myself hitting a light colored wall. Trying to tone down that light by moving the Bezel to "Medium" at 270 Lumens would mean the Bezel isn't all the way right or left, leaving the possibility open to accidentally not have it where I want it.
Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges in comparing the lumens to the lumens listed for other lights? Maybe floody lights like the Maelstrom aren't as likely to blind me at high lumens? It sure seems like a nice light, and bang for buck it seems to have it. I just don't want to get myself into trouble while I'm fiddling trying to find medium because high is too bright? Or will that be unlikely to be an issue? Yeah, ignore lumens. Lumens are a measure of ALL of the light coming out of the front of the light, not at one specific point. For that, you want lux. A 500 lumen light with 5K lux in the center of the beam is going to look a lot different than a 500 lumen light with 20K lux. The problem is that not everyone is using ANSI specs yet, so you will not see lux measurements on everything out there. CPF is a good resource if you want in depth reviews, but be prepared for information overload. For 480 lumens blinding you, that all depends on how adjusted your eyes are. 10 lumens can blind you if you haven't seen light in a while. If you are in a typical house or building with random lights everywhere on stoves, stereos, etc., then 480 in a relatively floody beam isn't too bad, although it is on the high end of what I would want indoors. |
| If you keep your eyes open on the equipment exchange here you can find great deals. I found a few weeks ago a SureFire M951 brand new in the package for $100, and it is 100% authentic (I compared it to my friends)...so there are good deals to be had. Your weaponlight is a very important part of your setup (target acquisition) especially if it is a duty weapon or just incase SHTF, so IMO if you can, try to find a SureFire either new or gently used for a good price. If you are a bit patient they do turn up all the time...good luck! |
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Thanks again for all the responses.
I think I've decided, for now at least, to go ahead and try out either that 4Sevens X7 that Storl described, or a Fenix light (Or maybe that VTAC L4 which is still in the running for me, I've read folks say nice things about it). Sounds like a good bang-for-the-buck way to get my first light and less expensive so I can put that money saved towards my optic. I figured that those sound like they are terrific even if just in the handheld tactical flashlight role. So it certainly wouldn't be a waste as thats way better than my household flashlight. Then, when I can make my next purchase for the AR, maybe I can pick up a nice Surefire...or maybe down the road I'll end up finding a really good deal on a brand new light like Bryan above mentioned. Thanks again everyone. |
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