AR Sponsor
Posted: 5/27/2011 6:58:55 AM EDT
|
Im picking up a 6P defender off the EE fro a good price. I was looking into upgrading from its stock 65 lumens, if this is even necessary. Ive seen anti-shock bezels available and LED upgrades, and was wondering the best combo fore the buck.
Its mounting on my 14. 5 middy, via IWC MOE mount. Not hi speed, just HD. |
|
Quoted:
Im picking up a 6P defender off the EE fro a good price. I was looking into upgrading from its stock 65 lumens, if this is even necessary. Ive seen anti-shock bezels available and LED upgrades, and was wondering the best combo fore the buck. Its mounting on my 14. 5 middy, via IWC MOE mount. Not hi speed, just HD. I got the TNVC 220 Lumen led upgrade for $45; but . . Primary Arms has the Cree Q5 LED 200 Lumen drop-in for $15. Both are great companies! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im picking up a 6P defender off the EE fro a good price. I was looking into upgrading from its stock 65 lumens, if this is even necessary. Ive seen anti-shock bezels available and LED upgrades, and was wondering the best combo fore the buck. Its mounting on my 14. 5 middy, via IWC MOE mount. Not hi speed, just HD. I got the TNVC 220 Lumen led upgrade for $45; but . . Primary Arms has the Cree Q5 LED 200 Lumen drop-in for $15. Both are great companies! Would that not only provide lumen upgrade but shock resistance? thanks for the input, ill check the stuff out. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im picking up a 6P defender off the EE fro a good price. I was looking into upgrading from its stock 65 lumens, if this is even necessary. Ive seen anti-shock bezels available and LED upgrades, and was wondering the best combo fore the buck. Its mounting on my 14. 5 middy, via IWC MOE mount. Not hi speed, just HD. I got the TNVC 220 Lumen led upgrade for $45; but . . Primary Arms has the Cree Q5 LED 200 Lumen drop-in for $15. Both are great companies! Would that not only provide lumen upgrade but shock resistance? thanks for the input, ill check the stuff out. Do yourself a favor and spend the extra bucks and get a Malkoff. The M61 is 280 lumens with a runtime of 2 hours. The M61L is 170 with a 5 hour runtime. These are fully potted inside it's own copper heatsink making them extremely durable. Check out www.brightflashlights.com they have been nothing but golden for me. Quick shipping and great price on the module also. I know for a fact TNVC's has been tested thoroughly and hold's up. The big difference is the amount of light and the extra ruggedness built into the Malkoff. Malkoffs measurements are OTF (out the front), the other two are at the emitter, big difference. The other deciding factor that may sway you is the fact that they are made here in the USA not China. I own many lights with different brands of drop in's, some much brighter than the Malkoff M61, however, all of my go to lights, handheld or weapon mounted, are Surefires and they all have Malkoff drop-ins installed in them...... I might also recommend the McClicky tailcap upgrade from www.oveready.com. "We have tested, abused, jumped, dove, used in combat and thrown almost everything we can at these modules… we have modules with over 100,000 rounds of 5.56mm ammo on them! A true American product built by true Americans! We endorse this product from general daily use all the way to the worst riggers of combat operation.” -Travis Haley and Chris Costa |
|
We offer the Malkoff M60, M60F, and M61 here. The M60 and M60F feature optical beam projection for a "soft edge" beam. The M61 uses a reflector. The M60 is OEM in all Elzetta ZFL-M60 Lights (M60F available upon request at no additional cost). The ad below briefly describes the fully-potted electronics featured on all Malkoff LED Modules. The durability afforded by potting the electronics cannot be overstated. 
|
|
From my reading, I'm seeing 120-150 lumens for most indoor/home defense apps. Not too bright that it floods the space, or totally ruin my night vision.
Its for use in my house God forbid. Its only 1200sq ft so my longest reach is 60 ft. If that. I dont need to illum a hog at 200 yrds, just ID FOF in my house. Im putting my parts list together. Looking like I could get a dedicate used weapons light for all this, but I enjoy playing with Legos sooo much. Or a brand new Elzetta. Maybe Ill keep the 6p Defender as hand held and just get the Elzetta...Anyone feel like Ive wasted their time? Oh well... |
|
Quoted: From my reading, I'm seeing 120-150 lumens for most indoor/home defense apps. Not too bright that it floods the space, or totally ruin my night vision. Its for use in my house God forbid. Its only 1200sq ft so my longest reach is 60 ft. If that. I dont need to illum a hog at 200 yrds, just ID FOF in my house. Im putting my parts list together. Looking like I could get a dedicate used weapons light for all this, but I enjoy playing with Legos sooo much. Or a brand new Elzetta. Maybe Ill keep the 6p Defender as hand held and just get the Elzetta...Anyone feel like Ive wasted their time? Oh well...  |
|
Quoted: From my reading, I'm seeing 120-150 lumens for most indoor/home defense apps. Not too bright that it floods the space, or totally ruin my night vision. Its for use in my house God forbid. Its only 1200sq ft so my longest reach is 60 ft. If that. I dont need to illum a hog at 200 yrds, just ID FOF in my house. Im putting my parts list together. Looking like I could get a dedicate used weapons light for all this, but I enjoy playing with Legos sooo much. Or a brand new Elzetta. Maybe Ill keep the 6p Defender as hand held and just get the Elzetta...Anyone feel like Ive wasted their time? Oh well... Keep in mind that lumens are a measure of total light output, not "brightness". For indoor/CQB use, we highly recommend the M60F which diffuses 235 lumens through a 20-degree flood lens. The light will uniformly illuminate a room without any discernable "hot spot" or splash back reflections. Although currently only available in the "Complete Shotgun Illumination Kit" on our website, give us a call and we will be happy to build an Elzetta ZFL-M60 with an M60F for you. (By the way, all Elzetta ZFL-M60 components are interchangable and available separately for your "legoing" pleasure  ). |
|
I strongly recommend going with the Malkoff over the TNVC if you are thinking of an LED drop-in for the 6P. The TNVC is just another china-made light-duty LED that is no different than the 15-dollar ones for sale all day long on eBay and I don't understand what's different about it to warrant three times the price of the other Chinese LED drop-ins. TNVC says it's their own design but I don't see what is different. Malkoff is truly a work of art and can take a beating and keep on shining. I have heard of several instances where the TNVC drop-in has failed but have never heard of a Malkoff failing.
The SureFire 6P will be more versatile than the ELzetta host if you are inclined to tinkering but either way you should stick with the Malkoff. The Elzetta will suffice if you don't plan on changing stuff around and it is a quality light by all accounts. |
|
Quoted: The SureFire 6P will be more versatile than the ELzetta host if you are inclined to tinkering but either way you should stick with the Malkoff. I respectfully disagree. With an Elzetta ZFL-M60 you can choose a Crenellated or Standard Bezel, any Malkoff LED Module, a 2-Cell or 3-Cell Body, and a Rotary, Click, High/Low, or High/Strobe Tailcap. (And more components are currently under development.) All components are interchangable and available separately. This level of modularity is not available from the competition. |
|
I'm attempting to keep this rig simple. I'm not in need of a tape switch or other such add ons. I require reliability, and a fair amount of durability.
If nothing else we have opened an interesting conversation on economic lights and options. Most of us dont need sand box durability. Again, with more research on my part we may have avoided some of the issues here, but I'm confident it was all good info for follow on readers. With all the info required for decision making on uppers, LPKs ,ammo, etc its not surprising that I didn't research this subject as thoroughly as I should have. Its apparent to me now that this is a serious subject. I underestimated the tech involved. Who knew that there would be dedicated forums just for freekin flashlight addicts? Shooters are a weird group of sportsmen, as an avid fly fisherman ( no weirder group of gear freaks than us), I can appreciate the gear bug that comes with the sport. I have options I didn't know about 4 days ago. Thanks to all the contributors. Cheap lights are a waste of money, I own some and they shit the bed quickly. Pay once cry once, apt here. |
|
Quoted:
I strongly recommend going with the Malkoff over the TNVC if you are thinking of an LED drop-in for the 6P. The TNVC is just another china-made light-duty LED that is no different than the 15-dollar ones for sale all day long on eBay and I don't understand what's different about it to warrant three times the price of the other Chinese LED drop-ins. TNVC says it's their own design but I don't see what is different. Malkoff is truly a work of art and can take a beating and keep on shining. I have heard of several instances where the TNVC drop-in has failed but have never heard of a Malkoff failing. The SureFire 6P will be more versatile than the ELzetta host if you are inclined to tinkering but either way you should stick with the Malkoff. The Elzetta will suffice if you don't plan on changing stuff around and it is a quality light by all accounts. I also respectfully disagree. Curious to see if you even own our light? 
It is our own design and Pat Rogers and crew now have over 300,000 rounds down range with 4 student guns for the last 2 years and the original lamp is still burning strong. We produced these lights LONG before anyone else was even doing a replacement lamp as I personally saw the need for a higher power LED over the incandescents way back when for LE use. Listen, we tried to get a few American electronic companies to do our light a long time ago. No one was interested or wanted 50,000 lights for an initial order.  When the LED's started to get mass produced, many jumped on the bandwagon, we just stuck with our initial design and production which is highly reliable. We have had so many field reports to prove the reliability and Pat Rogers is just one of the groups who still run our drop ins with great success.
In closing, we now have thousands of lights out there with many happy customers. Also, ALL electronics can fail, EVEN the competition. Always have and always will. I have enough SF P60 failed lamps to prove it. Does this make the Surefire product a bad product, no of course not.
Hope this helps. P.S. In no way am I bagging on the competition here, they all have their place and a good place at that.
|
|
TNVC,
While I was not in any way trying to bash your product or your company, I do remember reading a post on this forum where someone was asking about an upgrade for their SureFire light and one person told them to go with your TX4 head because they had had the TNVC Cree Q5 LED drop-in fail on them. Now I myself am not saying your products are weak because regarding the 'similar' 15-dollar chinese-made LED drop-in sold on eBay from Hong Kong, I have a couple of these and have not been able to break them so I fail to understand how the LED drop-in can break when by default it should be tougher than the OEM SureFire bulbs. And I HAVE had the SureFire bulbs pop on me personally even though they are tough little lamps. But I am citing one (maybe two) instance were somebody said their TNVC LED drop-in failed in some way. My point was to say I have never read about a Malkoff failing ANYWHERE in normal use, EXCEPT for one guy who put the batteries in backwards or something and fried the driver. My other comment is in regards to there being so much similarity between your Q5 drop-in and the SolarForce XR-E drop-in for example, which I can buy on eBay for around $10. I am NOT saying they are the same thing, but without both in hand I can't tell what the difference is so I assume the difference is on the inside so I would like to see an actual physical comparison of the two. I want to know HOW is it different? How is it more suitable to weapons use? HOW is it TNVC's own original design? What are the specific differences between yours, and a generic Solarforce/Ultrafire/The-China-Man Cree drop-in? But because your drop-in costs $45 and that is already 3/4 of the way to buying a Malkoff, I would have to say I would buy the Malkoff everytime and that is why I don't own one of your Cree Q5 drop-ins. Like I said, I'm not trying to bash your product, just want to have a harmless discussion so I can leave here better informed than when I got here. |
| I bought the P6 Defender when they came out. I have been wanting to upgrade the light for some time. Reading this post convinced me to order a Malkoff from brightflashlights just a few minutes ago. Several minutes after that I get e-mailed that my purchase has shipped. I love that type of service. Kevin made sure I had everything I needed and was most friendly. |
|
Hey manufacturer input works for me. Air it out fellas! Its all info for decision making.
One of the great things about this AR boom is the number of vendors competing for a share of the markets, and price points. Its good for the consumer, and any enlightenment or info presented is fodder for thought. My revelation is that I'm trying to build a light that already exists by piece mealing it together. |
|
I own 5 Surefire lights + 2 weapon lights. 5 have Malkoff LED units, one has a P60L bulb and one still has a lowly P60 (this may be the only incandescent hand-held light I still own). Malkoffs include M30, M60, M60L, M60F & M61. I like the Malkoff units and they are 100% Made In The USA!  |
|
I had a Chinese one that did not last.
I still have my Malkoff that I bought directly Malkoff instead of the Malkoff pimps. |
|
Make good stuff or die, marketplace wins...unless your getting an Obama check that promotes mediocrity...but I digress...
I got my 6P Defender. Its built. My only experience is with Mag lights. Its my new night stand lamp. Nice to discover it has a clicky tail cap, I thought I was going to be upgrading that too. Love it. And for $50 its REAL nice... |
|
I have the TNVC unit in the light on my middy- I actually looked for a Malkoff at the time but couldn't find it in stock anywhere
It's a G&R tactical 2-cell body, Z61 E-series clicky tailcap, SF P-series shock-absorbing bezel, and GearSector mount. 
After using the TNVC unit for several months, ~600-700 rounds, I have had zero problems. Very bright, no flickers, dimming, etc. I know the Malkoffs are good kit, but they are pricey and I have been happy with the way I went. |
|
Here's what I just got done paying for:
I bought a Malkoff from Battery Junction (M61). I knew I was going to get either a 6P or a M951 that I was bidding on through ebay. I lost the auction from an auction sniper at the last minute for the M951. So I started looking back at the 6P. Light: $58 Clicky switch: ~$30 for a conversion / ~$45 for an actual SF switch Mount: ~$40 for something decent I then found a seller who sells brand new in the plastic M951's for $159 shipped, which includes the IR lens cover and tapeswitch. After some deliberation, I opted to buy the M951, since it was designed for weapon mounting and can still use the Malkoff M61 drop-in. (I already had the spacer for shock isolating bezels from a previous purchase.) Since the prices were so close after converting the 6P, I chose the M951 due to the better options. |
|
Quoted:
Here's what I just got done paying for: I bought a Malkoff from Battery Junction (M61). I knew I was going to get either a 6P or a M951 that I was bidding on through ebay. I lost the auction from an auction sniper at the last minute for the M951. So I started looking back at the 6P. Light: $58 Clicky switch: ~$30 for a conversion / ~$45 for an actual SF switch Mount: ~$40 for something decent I then found a seller who sells brand new in the plastic M951's for $159 shipped, which includes the IR lens cover and tapeswitch. After some deliberation, I opted to buy the M951, since it was designed for weapon mounting and can still use the Malkoff M61 drop-in. (I already had the spacer for shock isolating bezels from a previous purchase.) Since the prices were so close after converting the 6P, I chose the M951 due to the better options. Just to follow up: M951XM07 was received in brand new condition. Seller is a stand-up person. That being said, I did have 2 minor problems. My spacer ring for the Malkoff M61 for shock absorbing bezels must have been an old design. It is a copper ring which was soldered closed. I had to unsolder the ring to get it to fit the bezel properly. Then Once I installed the M61 and reassembled the light, it wouldn't operate. It seems that there is a plastic spacer between the battery compartment and the bezel, which I had to remove to allow the batteries to make contact with the M61. The light is operational now. I am slightly disappointed in the fact that my G2X seems to have a higher output than the M61, but they are close. |
|
Quoted: I am slightly disappointed in the fact that my G2X seems to have a higher output than the M61, but they are close. The M61 is brighter, but what you are seeing is the difference in the reflectors. The M61 will also have a longer run time, though you lose the low setting. Glad you like the light. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am slightly disappointed in the fact that my G2X seems to have a higher output than the M61, but they are close. The M61 is brighter, but what you are seeing is the difference in the reflectors. The M61 will also have a longer run time, though you lose the low setting. Glad you like the light. I will admit that I only did a short range wall test between the lights, and have not put them head to head outside at night yet. |
|
Quoted:
Im picking up a 6P defender off the EE fro a good price. I was looking into upgrading from its stock 65 lumens, if this is even necessary. Ive seen anti-shock bezels available and LED upgrades, and was wondering the best combo fore the buck. Its mounting on my 14. 5 middy, via IWC MOE mount. Not hi speed, just HD. There are several paths. You need a click tail cap for sure. You can run a surefire unit if you only run a 2.5 amp or less module. If not WWW.oveready.com has a mcclicky module that will handle about 5 amps just fine. Second, the factory bezel is weak. It is easy to bend the lip or break the lens if the weapon and light are bumped hard against a wall, etc. The plastic bezel ring needs to go. Again, WWW.oveready.com buy a steel one. Now for the led module. If you want 150-200 lumens, any led within reason will do. Dime a dozen. However, I prefer 300+ and in a warm tint of 4500k or warmer. Nailbender from cpf.com builds all my modules. His xpg is run at 1.5 amps and gives around 300 lumens true otf output in a warm tint. It is fully potted with thermal epoxy and runs about $45 shipped with that option. He also includes copper tape to make sure it fits perfect in your host. Next up is the 500+ lumens stuff. It only gives about a half hour runtime though. I run an xml at 2.8 amps from nailbender in a 4000k tint. It puts out an honest 550 or so lumens and has a hotspot the size of a freight train. Previously I have run malkoff m60, m61w, tnvc, dereelight. The construction between the dereelight and tnvc was equal. The nailbender slightly better as it was fully potted, and the malkoff superior. Nailbender drives his leds to their max safe level and is by far the brightest. Then malkoff and dereelight, then tnvc. Run times are inverse. Note: never run a shock isolated bezel with an led. It cooks them. |
AR Sponsor