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Posted: 2/25/2011 12:19:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By NVBGear:
Originally Posted By M4builder:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
I dont care about try to blind the BG ID and shoot FORGOT Very nice write up / topic If you have your weapon aimed at the BG, and your light is on, he will be blind. Now, you realize your wife or child is behind him. You can't take the shot, but at least he is limited in his effectiveness until you can re-orient your position so that your family member is out of the impact zone. The BG might have lost the ability to make out details about you, but he is NOT blinded enough to be unable to shoot /charge you. If you want to have this demonstrated. You need a range area you can shoot in the dark. IDPA target, target stand, the brightest light you are comfortable with potentially shooting, and a buddy to turn the light on. Set the target up, tape the light to top of the stand beside where you staple the targets (this will approximate where your light would be in regards to your hide). Let your eyes night adjust and go stand back to the target at the 10 yard line, have your buddy turn the light on and aim it at the back of your head. (Have buddy get the hell away from the target stand). Drill start! You spin in place and shoot the target. Drill end. Go and look at the perforated target that would be you, and perhaps mourn the light you shot. The time difference between doing this spin and shoot in the day light and the described light drill is fractions of a second. Accuracy is down, but still man killing good. There is no hand held light that will blind a BG into ineffectiveness, the best it will do it cost him the details of where you are. So if you lock your light on and are painting a target, you must be ready to fire instantly. Because as soon as you lock your light on, you are a target and the BG may not have seen the Surefire or Gladius strobe ad so he doesn't realize he should be curled into a little ball screaming "Teh light it burns!" He might just blaze away at your light, or charge your light. +1 Pretty much how I see it - NVBGear I have never said that you should be static, or keep your light on. That is why nothing of what I've outlined here would be tested in your IDPA range idea.....But, try this: Go to the range. Set up 5 targets. Have buddy with the light stand nearby. Once your eyes have adjusted to the darkness, have him flash you in the eyes without warning, then call out a target to hit...#1 or #2 ect..... Oh, your buddy should be pretty trusting in your theory of how well you"ll shoot in this situation, as his life may depend on your being right. ...and what do you mean by "lock your light on"...? - FMJ Just trying to get this clear..... Is all this assuming the light is still on and the 'target' is not moving from where he just flashed you from? So, if you just flashed someone, & saw your kid behind them, you agree with NVBGear that you should keep your light on & fire on the BG before he can move against the you? Versus- flashing your target, realize the danger to your kid, & move to clear your impact zone of children. Then flash again to engage the target.....? I just want to know if I'm reading you guys correctly... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2011 8:36:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Nice, Very Informative
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2011 6:16:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Excellent advise, very well put together.
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Posted: 4/28/2011 5:51:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Plissken]
[#4]
What say ye of my tape switch setup?
Stays out of the way unless it's needed, thus nullifying the VFG-based concerns of the OP, and the cable isn't slack/loose as to get tangled. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2011 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Looks good. Have you considered the LaRue index clips to manage that wire a bit more cleanly?
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Posted: 5/3/2011 3:51:52 AM EDT
[#6]
I rather like the j-rigged look of it. Adds character
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Posted: 5/8/2011 8:39:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By Plissken: I rather like the j-rigged look of it. Adds character It's a lot cheaper than index clips too.  No need for "clean" unless you just have the luxury. Your setup makes it work, I never thought about using the panels. I always had to zip tie mine to the rail to keep it from snagging stuff.
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Posted: 5/23/2011 11:37:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Looks like it will work well.
Let us know how long the switch lasts....OK? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/25/2011 10:08:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Nicely written. You really have to know what your doing to safely execute the right maneuvers to protect your family in a situation like this, when their lives could be in jeopardy.
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Posted: 8/13/2011 11:10:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Excellent article...thanks for your time and effort.
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2011 2:31:44 AM EDT
[#11]
Finally got to the end! Great posts and a lot of good info. Even though this was intended for HD it is very similar to what we were trained in for LEO applications. Aside from the post a few pages back where you have the guy unarmed and in the proses of detaining. Just got my Viking Tactics L4 today and am attempting to use all i can from this thread to place it properly. I am having trouble with the tape switch placement but ill keep lookin around to find what works. Would love to see more about filters. I have a red filter on my stream light tl2 and it is not very well thought out as the surefires... going to try to rig a surefire filter to fit it
 Thanks for a good read.
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MA, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2011 12:34:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Excellent write up.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2011 3:28:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Interesting, informative, and persuasive. I've just ordered an LMT and will have another AR for the first time in eight years or so. I assumed at first that people who used lights at night were painting a "shoot me" sign on themselves, but this post taught me that it wasn't necessarily so, if done properly. I found particularly interesting the recommendation about keeping the brightness down to 60 - 120 lumens. Then, reading just the first page of the posts in the forum, I see guys recommending to newbies 200 - 300 lumen searchlights - it's like neither the newbies nor the experts helping them had ever read this thread.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2012 9:26:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Great info for a noob like myself, and perhaps to some seasoned players as well. The filters you spoke of for lights over 120 lumen, what am I looking for? I purchased thinking the more the better, but you made some valid points on it working against the user. Not that you haven't supplied enough info, but where can I find such a filter or what is the name of what I'm looking for?
Thanks for the great work! Sean |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/1/2012 1:02:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Great write-up! Bookmarked it to remind me in the future.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:15:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Proper use of weapon lights. Lol . Way too much time on your hands? God knows you're the only one who can figure out how to use a light.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2012 10:57:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Texasantilib:
Proper use of weapon lights. Lol . Way too much time on your hands? God knows you're the only one who can figure out how to use a light. So, what do you teach? Have you ever learned how to use weapon lights? Tell us, oh wise one, what do you know? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2012 1:45:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Great article on the proper use of weapon lights with a home defense AR –– unfortunately it omits the reality that there is NO proper use OF an AR15 as a "home defense carbine" and the fact that "home defense carbine" is itself an oxymoron in nearly all situations.
All the points about selecting and using lights on an AR are well thought out and well written - but save them for a dark shoot house at some range or course. Personally I love my AR, and if absolutely nothing else were available I might use it defensively, but of the various guns in my cabinet the only ones that would come behind the AR for home defense are my .22 rifles and my Savage 10FP. In the vast majority of situations, a home defender should be on the defense –– not trying to play ninja on some kind of search & destroy mission. In the rare situation where a home defender has some need to move about to clear the interior of the home, a pistol or shotgun make a far better choice than any carbine, and if you have to use a carbine, then a pistol caliber carbine beats an AR or AK. |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 3:08:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By n4aof:
Great article on the proper use of weapon lights with a home defense AR –– unfortunately it omits the reality that there is NO proper use OF an AR15 as a "home defense carbine" and the fact that "home defense carbine" is itself an oxymoron in nearly all situations. All the points about selecting and using lights on an AR are well thought out and well written - but save them for a dark shoot house at some range or course. Personally I love my AR, and if absolutely nothing else were available I might use it defensively, but of the various guns in my cabinet the only ones that would come behind the AR for home defense are my .22 rifles and my Savage 10FP. In the vast majority of situations, a home defender should be on the defense –– not trying to play ninja on some kind of search & destroy mission. In the rare situation where a home defender has some need to move about to clear the interior of the home, a pistol or shotgun make a far better choice than any carbine, and if you have to use a carbine, then a pistol caliber carbine beats an AR or AK. I'm sorry, but the science and repeated ballistic testing disagrees with most of your points. Most of us who have tasked 5.56 carbines for home defense also have shotguns and pistols available as well, yet we choose the 5.56 carbine. Why? For the same reasons police departments have trended away from shotguns and pistol caliber carbines. The fact is, a modern 5.56 OTM round is LESS apt to overpenetrate in drywall, wood etc. Don't take my word for it, there are plenty of studies and examples to back up my assertions. The other reasons are ease of followup shots, ease of recoil, and ease of reloading. I'd be happy to post some links if you are willing to become educated on the subject. If you are simply going to parrot the same old nonsense that has been proven dangerously wrong for years, you might want to consider posting it elsewhere. Repeating bogus information as gospel is a good way for someone who listens to get hurt in an emergency-and that shit doesn't fly here. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/12/2012 4:12:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By Texasantilib:
Proper use of weapon lights. Lol . Way too much time on your hands? God knows you're the only one who can figure out how to use a light. I would venture to guess that you have had precisely zero low-light training. If you think it's just a matter of turning a flashlight on and off you'd be wrong. A properly used white light is about a lot more than simply identifying your target and what's behind it. It's all about using it properly so you don't make yourself a target, as well as denying your target the ability to shoot back effectively by removing his dark-adapted vision, among other things. If the words strobing, light housing, peeling, indirect illumination via spill, umbra, penumbra, antumbra, and displacing don't mean anything to you in this context, then get more training before you scoff 
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2012 9:31:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By Texasantilib:
Proper use of weapon lights. Lol . Way too much time on your hands? God knows you're the only one who can figure out how to use a light. I guess you just turn yours on and walk around
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KS, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2012 9:42:08 AM EDT
[#22]
One of the most dangerous things to a firearms user -assuming you already know it all. Then not learning further methods because you don't think anyone could possibly teach you anything.
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Posted: 9/25/2012 4:19:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By M4builder:
One of the most dangerous things to a firearms user -assuming you already know it all. Then not learning further methods because you don't think anyone could possibly teach you anything. This thread has been around for three years yet I don't recall reading it. I'm glad I did! There's terms on here that I wasn't familiar with. I have a Surefire G2 on my bedside AR, and from what I've read I could use some practice in using this weapon/light combo. |
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Posted: 9/28/2012 11:14:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By SPTiger:
Originally Posted By M4builder:
One of the most dangerous things to a firearms user -assuming you already know it all. Then not learning further methods because you don't think anyone could possibly teach you anything. This thread has been around for three years yet I don't recall reading it. I'm glad I did! There's terms on here that I wasn't familiar with. I have a Surefire G2 on my bedside AR, and from what I've read I could use some practice in using this weapon/light combo. Thanks. Glad it's still diong some good. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2012 5:34:45 PM EDT
[#25]
A well done and well thought out article. This pretty much mirrors the US Army's philosophy on using lights and lasers. The one thing to remember, especially with lasers, as soon as you turn it on and paint the target, that target now knows right where you are. Get off a quick single or double tap, turn off the laser and MOVE at least 10m behind cover if possible. This is just as true for IR lasers as it is for visible light lasers. You don't know if the other guy or one of his buddies has NODs too and you highlight yourself just as much as you would with a visible laser if they do
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Posted: 10/21/2012 12:20:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By M16tackdriver:
A well done and well thought out article. This pretty much mirrors the US Army's philosophy on using lights and lasers. The one thing to remember, especially with lasers, as soon as you turn it on and paint the target, that target now knows right where you are. Get off a quick single or double tap, turn off the laser and MOVE at least 10m behind cover if possible. This is just as true for IR lasers as it is for visible light lasers. You don't know if the other guy or one of his buddies has NODs too and you highlight yourself just as much as you would with a visible laser if they do Well, the Army is where I started learning the use of lights & lasers. So it makes sense that it would mirror the Army's training. I've been using the LED lights more & more too. I'm willing to now say that the current generation of LED lights are quite up to par for home defense. |
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Posted: 10/25/2012 12:54:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By M4builder:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By NVBGear:
Originally Posted By M4builder:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
I dont care about try to blind the BG ID and shoot FORGOT Very nice write up / topic If you have your weapon aimed at the BG, and your light is on, he will be blind. Now, you realize your wife or child is behind him. You can't take the shot, but at least he is limited in his effectiveness until you can re-orient your position so that your family member is out of the impact zone. The BG might have lost the ability to make out details about you, but he is NOT blinded enough to be unable to shoot /charge you. If you want to have this demonstrated. You need a range area you can shoot in the dark. IDPA target, target stand, the brightest light you are comfortable with potentially shooting, and a buddy to turn the light on. Set the target up, tape the light to top of the stand beside where you staple the targets (this will approximate where your light would be in regards to your hide). Let your eyes night adjust and go stand back to the target at the 10 yard line, have your buddy turn the light on and aim it at the back of your head. (Have buddy get the hell away from the target stand). Drill start! You spin in place and shoot the target. Drill end. Go and look at the perforated target that would be you, and perhaps mourn the light you shot. The time difference between doing this spin and shoot in the day light and the described light drill is fractions of a second. Accuracy is down, but still man killing good. There is no hand held light that will blind a BG into ineffectiveness, the best it will do it cost him the details of where you are. So if you lock your light on and are painting a target, you must be ready to fire instantly. Because as soon as you lock your light on, you are a target and the BG may not have seen the Surefire or Gladius strobe ad so he doesn't realize he should be curled into a little ball screaming "Teh light it burns!" He might just blaze away at your light, or charge your light. +1 Pretty much how I see it - NVBGear I have never said that you should be static, or keep your light on. That is why nothing of what I've outlined here would be tested in your IDPA range idea.....But, try this: Go to the range. Set up 5 targets. Have buddy with the light stand nearby. Once your eyes have adjusted to the darkness, have him flash you in the eyes without warning, then call out a target to hit...#1 or #2 ect..... Oh, your buddy should be pretty trusting in your theory of how well you"ll shoot in this situation, as his life may depend on your being right. ...and what do you mean by "lock your light on"...? - FMJ Just trying to get this clear..... Is all this assuming the light is still on and the 'target' is not moving from where he just flashed you from? So, if you just flashed someone, & saw your kid behind them, you agree with NVBGear that you should keep your light on & fire on the BG before he can move against the you? Versus- flashing your target, realize the danger to your kid, & move to clear your impact zone of children. Then flash again to engage the target.....? I just want to know if I'm reading you guys correctly... My only BEEF is or was about the word BLIND. I think NVBGear pick up on it as well which is why he quoted me 
As far as your scenarios go its all assuming! I did say it was a nice write up
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2013 7:49:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Good Write up.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:12:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Consider this a tag.
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:26:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Any basic guidance on the best way to mount a tape switch? I've been "gifted" a light with a tape switch tailstock and rail mount, and I want to play around with how it works. I have LaRue clips, a couple of different railed rifles to try it with, etc., but where the switch should go for a right handed shooter is a big question...
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Posted: 5/19/2013 1:29:23 PM EDT
[#31]
It depends on what feels comfortable to you. A lot of people mount theirs to their VFG but I prefer to mount it on the 9 O clock position on the rail. I feel that you're less likely to negligently discharge your light in a stressful situation that way.
Originally Posted By GHPorter: Any basic guidance on the best way to mount a tape switch? I've been "gifted" a light with a tape switch tailstock and rail mount, and I want to play around with how it works. I have LaRue clips, a couple of different railed rifles to try it with, etc., but where the switch should go for a right handed shooter is a big question... |
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Posted: 5/19/2013 4:46:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Tim... I'd think that placing it on the grip side that your finger tips are on. TD and others have VFGs with pockets just for this. On a MOE, I really like their light attachment kit. Just pay attention to your grip when using it, and don't have any NDs with the light from tension.
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Posted: 5/20/2013 1:40:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Totally agreed. However, since I use a modified stubby, I don't have room for a pressure pad. Therefore, this is my solution:
Inforce WML (I'm a lefty)  Originally Posted By M4builder: Tim... I'd think that placing it on the grip side that your finger tips are on. TD and others have VFGs with pockets just for this. On a MOE, I really like their light attachment kit. Just pay attention to your grip when using it, and don't have any NDs with the light from tension. |
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Posted: 5/22/2013 1:07:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By USP45Tim:
Totally agreed. However, since I use a modified stubby, I don't have room for a pressure pad. Therefore, this is my solution: Inforce WML (I'm a lefty) http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/deputythrust/IMG_4098_zpscc59bba3.jpg Originally Posted By M4builder:
Tim... I'd think that placing it on the grip side that your finger tips are on. TD and others have VFGs with pockets just for this. On a MOE, I really like their light attachment kit. Just pay attention to your grip when using it, and don't have any NDs with the light from tension. Nice rig. You don't have any issues with it activating when its slung against your body? |
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Posted: 5/22/2013 1:54:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Thanks! Not at all.
Originally Posted By M4builder: Nice rig. You don't have any issues with it activating when its slung against your body? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2013 3:02:01 PM EDT
[#36]
What mount is that used in the last pic on the 1st post, the one the Surefire G2 Nitrolon is in? I have the same light and want to get that mount, or one very similar to it.
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Posted: 5/27/2013 5:49:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Tonsoguns:
What mount is that used in the last pic on the 1st post, the one the Surefire G2 Nitrolon is in? I have the same light and want to get that mount, or one very similar to it. It's a YHM offset mount with a low profile 1" ring. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2013 8:10:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks for posting this thread. Props to the author, it was a great read. I definitely will be getting a tac light soon.
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Posted: 9/27/2013 11:37:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By demetri368:
Thanks for posting this thread. Props to the author, it was a great read. I definitely will be getting a tac light soon. Yeah, I'm looking to get a light for my carbine. This was helpful info. 
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Posted: 11/18/2013 1:39:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn]
[#40]
Comment removed...........dpmmn
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MS, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2013 12:15:56 AM EDT
[#41]
+1 I like
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2014 2:04:30 PM EDT
[#42]
its a start, find whats good for you. technology has changed alot since 09 and only you can decide whats going to work.
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USA
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Posted: 11/6/2014 8:53:38 PM EDT
[#43]
I really appreciate your time.
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USA
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Posted: 11/6/2014 9:14:37 PM EDT
[#44]
A man's character is what he can do for someone who can do nothing for him.
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Posted: 6/28/2015 10:19:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Update...LEDs now rule the roost.....
Mounts have improved..... The fundamentals are the same... Current equipment: 
Don't hate me...I like my gear like it is 
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Posted: 6/29/2015 8:36:03 PM EDT
[#46]
M4, please refresh my memory (or inform me if I just thought I'd seen this); what's that light in your most recent pictures?
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Posted: 7/1/2015 12:52:42 AM EDT
[#47]
It's a Surefire LED G2. 120 lumen. So, I use a filter.
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Posted: 7/26/2015 6:18:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Since my last post, I've sworn off keymod in favor of traditional rails. My light is now in the 3 o clock position (you righties would have it in the 9 o clock position, of course). With the WML, there's a lockout feature so you don't inadvertently activate your light. Out of all the cool lights I've had, the WML fits me perfectly.
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Posted: 7/27/2015 10:13:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timbo:
Since my last post, I've sworn off keymod in favor of traditional rails. My light is now in the 3 o clock position (you righties would have it in the 9 o clock position, of course). With the WML, there's a lockout feature so you don't inadvertently activate your light. Out of all the cool lights I've had, the WML fits me perfectly. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/6/2015 5:06:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Any basic guidance on the best way to mount a tape switch? I've been "gifted" a light with a tape switch tailstock and rail mount, and I want to play around with how it works. I have LaRue clips, a couple of different railed rifles to try it with, etc., but where the switch should go for a right handed shooter is a big question... After years of experience and trial and effort I have learned that the best place to mount any tape switch is in the spare parts bin. |
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