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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - For / against weapon lights..? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/14/2006 8:52:15 PM EDT
| I have been on the fence with this topic because of so many reasons, are you for/against? and why? |
| I'm for, within reason and proper tactics. Some people go overboard, or don't know tactics to use with them. However, they are irreplaceable on a rifle that you intend to use in SD, because 1/2 of the day is dark, and you can't easily hold a flashlight and shoot a rifle. |
The BIGGEST reason is that if you point the light at a subject to ID it, you are also pointing a weapon at it. That's a violation of a basic safety rule |
I dont see why this is a saftey rule, if you are willing to pull a weapon out, the least of your concerns needs to be pointing at someone. Id say the biggest disadvantage would be that bad guy could find out where you are, if you dont catch him off guard. |
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If you cannot identify your target you risk killing the wrong person/animal. At the very least you should have a light you can put in your hand and use. I have a LED light I have had to use twice when I heard odd things in the backyards. I was glad to have it on me. First sound turned out to be a box falling over in the wind. Second was a pair of cats scrapping in a dark corner. Neither was hissing so I had no idea what it was, closeest thing I could relate it to was someone going through a box of stuff. Without the light I could not have known what the noise was from. A 3 gallon bucket of water ended the feline argument. 
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On the fence because of so many reason? What? So many reasons "for"? The weight is the only reason against AFAIK. As for me, I'm "for". If I am ever in the unfortunate situation of being about to drop the hammer on someone in my house in the middle of the night I want to be sure I know they are not a friendly before I do it. Or else you could be making the biggest fuck-up of your life. |
Well, if there is a ruckus downstairs in the night I might have to bend some of the rules I guess. If it turns out if is a drunken friend or something he will have to accept that I pointed a firearm at him (which is better than having shot at his silhouette and killed I think). |
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Be truthful to yourself, and list as many scenarios as you can where you would really want a weapon light, but didn't have one. Now, list all the scenarios you can come up with where you HAVE a weapon light available, and wished you didn't. The truth is right in front of your face. |
You must be joking. Do problems only occurr in the daytime? Do you not need to see what you are shooting? Does the power never go out? Can you see in the dark? Are you willing to shoot a family member or friently by accident? Let me guess. You had a hard time determining if cell phones are a good idea and you don't own anything digital. Your computer is borrowed. |
Are you a f'ing retard? It most definitely looks that was from reading your post. Anyway, I'm not talking about going into the Dark blind. I'll have a light just not mounted on my gun.  One reason is you become a target, holding your flashlight out to the side is something taught in a swat training. To me I guess it all depends on what kind of situation your in, thanks to those who had an intelligent response. |
The answer is that you need both (hand held and weapon mounted). There are MANY different scenarios that one setup will work but not the other. As far as a weapon mounted light making you a target, the answer is of course yes. This is why you have know how to use it properly (strobing/move after illuminating a target/Etc.). |
I guess a lot depends on the situation at hand but the best bet is to have both a weapon mounted and hand held light. There will be times when tactics dictate that one is better to use then the other so have both! 
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I ran some low-light drills after nightfall (and in the rain  ) on Friday. G19 with factory NS:First time through with my handheld at my shoulder indexed along my cheekbone (FBI/SWAT style). The shadow cast while backlighting my gun made the sights almost unusable. I basically did the drill pointshooting, and shot placement reflected that. I was making hits, but they weren't A-zone. Tacloading at the end of the run was damn near impossible, but scanning was okay. Second time through I ran it "Rodgers Style" (Surefire 6P). It was a much easier, quicker, and more accurate run, but it was still a bit of a juggling act with the tacloading. Again, checking 6 was fairly easy. Third time through I borrowed my Photoman's M6 with the laser turned off. Holy crap what an incredible difference! The ability to maintain a firing grip and use only my offside thumb for momentary operation, along with the ability to actually use the nightsights was great. Yep. the light source was indexed on me (no different than the Rodgers), but I was able to remain "dark" for much longer, and pop the light on, get the shots off accurately, and go back to being a shadow quicker than with the 6P and Rodgers technique. I was damn near as quick and accurate through the drill as I was during daylight. Scanning for threats was cake: Finger off the trigger to pop the light into constant on. Back off and into the tacload. Checking six was done with the light on in "sul" (the M6 had enough "splash" to light up about 10' behind me outdoors). I was so impressed, that I'll be buying two TLR1's, and am now looking for concealment rigs for the G19 with a weaponlight mounted. How's that for a resounding "for" and "why"?  |
Why do you think that a light is an aiming tool??? h NV is nice, but most folks cannot spend that much money. The other issue with a NV device is that unless it is helmet mounted and you are using the rubber eye piece (like on a PVS-14) then you are just backlighting yourself and might as well get a light! |
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Also for lights big time. Both pistols and long guns. Like many on this forum I have real world experance from the sand box(and a bit from the civie world). Mostly on a long gun and some with pistol with hand held light. The key to using lights right and have them not draw fire is the tatics you use. Strobing and moving with a light is the way to go. Keeping the light constant on from one location is a great way to get shot. Weapon light displine is as important as fire displine. While I love NV and IR lasers, and saved up my combat pay to have my own on my civie set up. It is not the replacement to white light in everything. Try clearing a building with the first room is dark, the second room non combatants occupants turn on the light soon as you kick the door down of the first room, and the third room is dark with a s#@$ head going for his AK but has his scared ten year old son clinging to him. The white light will help you in all rooms. And its best effect is blinding the f@#$ out of people and dominating the sitation. You can ID, break up your shiloutte going through the door way from room 2 to 3 by strobing as you go through. And the guy in with the AK has had 4 or 5 flashs of 120 lummuns and his kid is now screaming. You dominate the sitation with a easy shot, while his options are crapy give up or spray and pray with his family in the house. In what happened to me he gave up. In the civie world of self defense, FBI stats say 65+% shootings are in reduced light. With a weapon light and thinking you can strobe dark spots then move on in your clearing, or blind a on comming attacker and give you self a second or more, or not use it as the sitation merits. Just use a bit of thinking in your tactics. And if you do not like pointing a weapon as possible noncommabants use a hand held also (thought the wash from most lights is close to ten feet). Is is always good to have a back up light along with other key equipment. As murphy happens, 1 is none, 2 is 1, you know the rest. Like a weapon, a weapon light needs trianing to be used effectivly. |
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For, but it is in a LaRue QD offset mount so I don't have to carry it around in the daytime. (AR) My Springfield TRP has a SF X200 on it that lies next to me on my night stand every night. I agree with almost everyone else...you have to acquire your target and ID the threat before pulling the trigger. Withou a light in night time situations, this is impossible. Tack |
This thread inspires me to ask whether or not Red Dot optics are a viable alternative to irons...and subsequently, what the best Aimpoint mount for an A2 carry handle is. |
Next thing you know people will want to put funky looking Weaver mounting rail thingamajigs on their handguards! Who says we can't make a time machine?
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| I concur with whomever said that you are not violating a safe handling rule if you use the proper light with the proper technique. A good light will have enough flood to illuminate/ID your target without having to use the hotspot and therefore have him/her covered with the muzzle. Searching with rifle/pistol accomplishes both of these requirements, and the muzzle is quickly brought to bear from this position. |
copmletely concur. Anyone who says other, either has a real shitty light and needs to upgrade, or needs to train a little bit more. |
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Like a lot of you guys, I was in the army. This was back in the 80's, i.e., we had M-16s and the stupid angle head flashlight. I remember being on guard duty at night, and out in the field on a dark night. A weapon light would have been the bomb. Now I have lights on all of my ARs. No more guard duty or FTXs, but if the zombies come I will be ready. |
Of course you cant use a red dot optic. Only a fool would rely on battery powered optics on his rifle! And if you get an Aimpoint put it above the handle like your Colt 4X scope is set up. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - For / against weapon lights..? (Page 1 of 2)
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