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Posted: 11/21/2005 11:38:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2005 11:42:31 AM EDT by ISED8U]
So I bought one of the 20mW green lasers from one of these Hong Kong dealers. I believe all of these lasers to be from the same manufacturer, though they're sold by different Ebay dealers.

I mounted this laser on a Bushmaster 5.56 in the M4 configuration. It came packaged in a cheap looking box that included the laser, mount and hardware, pressure pad switch, and one lithium cr 123 battery. The laser felt sturdy, and was the approximate size and weight of the average tac light.



Mounted pic:



There were no instructions included on how to properly mount and zero the unit, but it wasn't dificult to figure out with a little hands on. It was necessary to remove the front cap in order to adjust the hex-head screws that fine tuned the windage and elevation. I zeroed the dot at 50 yards using my Eotech as a reference.

Here's the result: you ALWAYS get what you pay for, and at $97 shipped I did exactly that. My first clue this laser probably wouldn't hold zero was that the hex head screws remained relatively loose after adjustments. There was no clicking to be felt while adjusting the screws.

After firing the first 5.56 XM 193 round it became apparent the laser had moved. The dot was approximately 6 inches left of zero. After firing the second round it had moved another six inches or so.



Look at the diode lens above. You'll notice it's pointing to the side. The lens was dead center before firing my rifle, and moved completely lateral WITH ONLY TWO LOUSY ROUNDS. Clearly this laser is not sturdy enough to take the abuse handed out by an AR. I believe it may hold up on a 22lr or 17 HMR. I have been intending to buy a Ruger 22lr semi auto rifle for some time, and I may tinker around with this laser on that.

Shipping costs to Honk Kong make it stupid to try to return, so I'll either mount this thing on a 22lr, sell it to an Airsofter, or just use it as a fancy pointer.

Save your money fellas!!!
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 11:43:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ISED8U:

Here's the result: you ALWAYS get what you pay for, and at $97 shipped I did exactly that.




THANK YOU! Good review.


Have a thought, if you want to try it, and risk dicking it up........


Pull the screws, loctite them, reinsert, adjust, let it dry up. Then try shooting.


Readjustment is obviously an issue
Link Posted: 11/21/2005 12:06:14 PM EDT
On a brighter note this new Bushy rifle is a ringer. Below are two 50 yard targets, the left is a 30 rounder, and right is a 60 rounder. The Eotech has no problem holding zero.

Link Posted: 11/22/2005 9:22:15 PM EDT
Most HK products are made for AIRSOFT use. I found that out too when I bought a red laser for my pistol.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 11:48:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ISED8U:
Here's the result: you ALWAYS get what you pay for


Good Info + Good Photos = Good review! I commend you for stepping up and not being afraid to admit the truth. I've given up here trying to get others to realize that cheaply priced junk from China won't do the job. Hopefully you can find an air$ofter to buy it and get some of your money back.
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 2:19:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:

Originally Posted By ISED8U:
Here's the result: you ALWAYS get what you pay for


Good Info + Good Photos = Good review! I commend you for stepping up and not being afraid to admit the truth. I've given up here trying to get others to realize that cheaply priced junk from China won't do the job. Hopefully you can find an air$ofter to buy it and get some of your money back.



I would also say that it depends. The chinese do make good weapons.

But their reverse engineering skills are way behind the russians.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:24:58 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:38:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 4:48:16 AM EDT by wildearp]
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:55:35 PM EDT
I've been in a heated discussion with a real turd about his research into ACOG clones and why they are so great at $150-$250. He says he's not getting one because of the looks but rather because he needs a cheaper low powered scope.

The first words out of his mouth in the thread were "Well if you want to get technical, RRA, Bushmaster, they're all clones of Colt so clones can't be that bad..."

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:21:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By ISED8U:

Here's the result: you ALWAYS get what you pay for, and at $97 shipped I did exactly that.




THANK YOU! Good review.


Have a thought, if you want to try it, and risk dicking it up........


Pull the screws, loctite them, reinsert, adjust, let it dry up. Then try shooting.


Readjustment is obviously an issue





Just enough Blue to lock in place.


Nice shooting by the way



You can always make it the worlds ultimate cat toy if it doesnt work on the .22LR
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:13:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
I've been in a heated discussion with a real turd about his research into ACOG clones and why they are so great at $150-$250. He says he's not getting one because of the looks but rather because he needs a cheaper low powered scope.

The first words out of his mouth in the thread were "Well if you want to get technical, RRA, Bushmaster, they're all clones of Colt so clones can't be that bad..."




And this has what to do with this thread, or are you just upping your post count so people think you're smarter? hinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:05:12 AM EDT
Hey Bro are you sure about that being a green laser?
I see Jon from Canada who runs 1337 tactical has the
laser you have listed for only 30 dollars,that's cheap enough that I would expect you to know better than to get something any better than a BB gun add on.

The actual surefire clones with green are here
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tactical-green-laser-surefire-style-with-ARMS-M68-mount_W0QQitemZ7208902603QQcategoryZ106974QQtcZphot­oQQcmdZViewItem


This is priced higher but may be better,I don't know I havn't ordered one yet,I'm certain if they duplicated surefire's incremental adjustment and locking methods then this would be good to go,that is assuming the actual laser itself is a decent one?

I think everything has to be judged by an honest and knowledgeable person before a review is posted,I'm an engineer in the manufacturing industry and a machinist for 20 yrs,I have installed top notch assembly lines all over South America and Asia for transmissions ,I can say for a fact just because it says made in :"" insert choice of country" this means nothing anymore as the 3rd world countries are now tooled and retrofitted with the highest manufacturing technology.

Many here like JosephR who spouts off just to feel wise has no actaul facts to back his claims from personal experience, just hot air.

The $ is and has been overseas due to the cheap labor,so it only makes sense to have these dedicated laborers to run the high tech machinerey from a corporate standpoint,this of course has actually drove a nail through the heart of our country,I know I live in MI and the motor city is almost done for..

I'm ordering 1 each of the items Jon sells and will review them extensively..

I have a wide array of weapons to mount them on and test..

Look for a detailed and Honest review of these clones.....
The clone wars will continue....

Are the 4x Trijicons worth $700 ? not in an international marketplace not by a longshot..
I can get mint Leupold 3.5X10 LRT MK4 with BDC for that much at Cabelas,I know I've bought 4.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:18:01 AM EDT
Someone help me here . . . I thought green lasers were especially dangerous to your vision?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:22:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 5:22:40 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

I'm an engineer in the manufacturing industry and a machinist for 20 yrs,I have installed top notch assembly lines all over South America and Asia





Many here like JosephR who spouts off just to feel wise has no actaul facts to back his claims from personal experience, just hot air.






Originally Posted By JosephR:

The first words out of his mouth in the thread were "Well if you want to get technical, RRA, Bushmaster, they're all clones of Colt so clones can't be that bad..."



Joe, I do not know why people can not understand why you posted that. I do and it sets up a good point. I guess I am not as educated or as experienced enough to see the fault in that
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:24:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 5:24:46 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Someone help me here . . . I thought green lasers were especially dangerous to your vision?




I think they all are...we aren't supposed to look directly at them

Or

Are you talking about the over green wavelength of color and just seeing the beam/ dot?

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:06:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:07:12 AM EDT by JosephR]
Glock_10mm- quit worrying about my post count. I don't post just to up the count- that would only be the case if I were trying to impress people like you who constantly look at it.

I have a feeling that if we were standing in the same room, you'd be checking out my package and saying "damn, just because your dick is bigger you think you are smarter than me!"

Just get off the whole post count thing. Should I start a fresh account to make you happy? If you think I'm smarter just because of my post count, I and a lot of other people feel pretty sad for you because that's not the way it works around here. Should we do like some of the other sites and have "Private" and "Lieutenant," etc. after our names? I think the simple numbers are just fine and you don't need to make a big deal about them.


One thing you have to remember is these aren't the same lasers made to the same specs with the only difference being cheap labor. If there were a market for this shit, that might be the case. Instead, copies of existing products are made and a market is created by giving people who want cheap alternatives to the real thing for next to nothing.

Surefire stands behind every one of it's products unconditionally for a lifetime. They could go overseas and use cheap labor and try to bring the price down but they can't. What brings the price down is the QUALITY of the product. You are getting a LOWER quality item- period.

Keep buying them, keep reviewing them and we'll keep a tally of which ones go tits up within the first SINGLE DAY!!

Thanks for the review ISED8U and not because they turned out bad but because honest reviews are what make this place work.

are these <20mw lasers? I've seen a lot of US manufacturers of lasers actually have to take 15mw green lasers and modify them to be <20mw lasers because otherwise they are too controlled or hard to import. Any laser of 20mw or greater is not authorized by the FDA to be used as anything but in an OEM industrial application. And, since the FDA gets their hands on everything coming into the country, these lasers must be <20mw. If they say otherwise, it's just another lie...


ETA: thanks Chris.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:26:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
They could go overseas and use cheap labor and try to bring the price down but they can't.



ohhhhhhh
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:31:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
They could go overseas and use cheap labor and try to bring the price down but they can't.



ohhhhhhh



Try reading the next sentence NEXT. I know you get winded, but don't stop when you want to to make a judgement. I clarify the meaning in the next sentence:


They could go overseas and use cheap labor and try to bring the price down but they can't. What brings the price down is the QUALITY of the product.


Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:34:05 AM EDT
If you want a nice green laser, check THIS out.

Try checking www.ledmuseum.org for reviews on lasers and they even have reviews on a few weapons grade lasers- green and red.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 10:56:10 AM EDT by HardShell]
EDITED: Answered below...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:03:01 AM EDT
I just happened to find it there.

Led Museum also showed another laserfor review and they gave it a good review:


So why you'd drop $160 on something from l337 tactical (total internet gamer geek name) is beyond me. Just because it looks like Surefire's tactical red lasers with the neat markings on it? come one...

1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:49:00 AM EDT
JosephR

Uhhh don't look now buddy,but you just posted a pic and link of the same piece of shit that the thread author has just bashed as a total loss,,,ho
Not appreciated my man!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:52:44 AM EDT
Looking at the threaded cap, it does look to be the same.

Ledmuseum didn't test it on a firearm. They just tested it's properties as a laser.

Ziti's a good guy who knows what he's talking about.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:44:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 10:45:17 AM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By freedom7:

JosephR

Uhhh don't look now buddy,but you just posted a pic and link of the same piece of shit that the thread author has just bashed as a total loss,,,hr


Now THAT is funny! To top it off, this one costs almost $20 more, delivered!

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:55:01 AM EDT
Point being I guess is that you get what you pay for. You should check out the LED museum and their reviews. They have a few green laser "pen style" pointers around the 15 and 20 milliwatt range that burn plastic or ignite matches.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:58:33 PM EDT
Joseph

I'll check into those lasers in that wavelength as they'd be a neat toy for a cheap price..
While it's true you usually get what you pay for,every so often a deal does come around.
I feel these clones may be one of them,you must remember that we are in very dire financial
times and many are struggling to say the least.

If some people are looking for advice on an item,they usually come here seeking a proffessional
response and a truthful thought out word of advice.

These same people may actually have to use this accessory to save their life or a family,friend
and cannot afford the best.

This is where opinions are not needed and experienced reviews are.

The laser you listed a link to is the same laser Jon from Canada has for $30.00 that's a far
cry from 100 or above.

There's alot of gear being shipped here from Asia currently and I feel it's gonna be a shin dig
buying some of these and giving them a review.

Let's all have fun and try not to step on eachother's toes...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:15:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:16:16 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By freedom7:
...

The laser you listed a link to is the same laser Jon from Canada has for $30.00 that's a far cry from 100 or above.

...



IIRC, he's asking $160 shipped for those... (unless we're talking about different ads).
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:25:34 PM EDT
yeah, I'm talking about GREEN lasers...

Oh and please don't ever say this again:


These same people may actually have to use this accessory to save their life or a family,friend
and cannot afford the best.



I think you meant to say that people CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY STUFF THAT WILL FAIL WHEN NEEDED, right?

The laser of Jon's that I've been talking about or thinking of is the $160 green laser he has in his EE ad. I am now not sure what we are talking about in this thread although the title says green
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:33:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 5:48:14 AM EDT by freedom7]
Here's the piece of shit I was referring to on Jon's site



Anything with the Brons tag on it should be avoided,I've seen slight variations such as a knurled body,but they're all basicly the same thing,and since they all utilize the same setscrew type adjustment for windage and elevation they're not worth a spit..

I'd like to see an eccentric type cam which houses the laser be used to manipulate the beam's trajectory.
You could have two of these inside the bore of the body and they would be easy to lock once the beam is set.

The surefire clones with the claimed green lasers Jon carries are indeed around 150 bucks give or take a few depending on the auction,these do have the appearance of a high quality design and components.
I emailed Jon for details on who is manufacturing them and what his viewpoint on them are,but have had no reply.
If they're just another Brons with a fancy housing then forget it...


And yes Joseph ,,what I meant was it's unfortunate that some may find themselves having to use a clone on a weapon which may be used to protect life or liberty,but this is the way life is for some..

So I was just in hopes that they get a fair reply as to what's shoddy but functionable and what's a carnal sin to mount to your weapon..
I'm hoping to receive my surefire green clone from Jon by next week..along with the other clones he has.. so I can rip into them and get some decent pics and details about this mysterious Asian gizmos and gadgetry..

href=i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/7e/38/79_1_b.JPG
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:45:33 AM EDT
Here's the more expensive one which had been advertised with a 10mw rating just two days ago but he revised it to say 5mw.
It does appear nice but so does a alot of women until you get them home in the bedroom and the clothes come off and you suddenly find yourself sneaking out the backdoor heading for your car
wondering how the hell she had packaged that nasty bod so nicely???here...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:09:15 AM EDT
You are going to literally waste $150 so you can play surgeon? Wow. You've got balls.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:29:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freedom7:
Here's the more expensive one which had been advertised with a 10mw rating just two days ago but he revised it to say 5mw.
It does appear nice but so does a alot of women until you get them home in the bedroom and the clothes come off and you suddenly find yourself sneaking out the backdoor heading for your car
wondering how the hell she had packaged that nasty bod so nicely???here...www.1337tactical.com/gallery/glaser3l.jpg


Amen brother
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:49:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By choppahead:

Originally Posted By freedom7:
Here's the more expensive one which had been advertised with a 10mw rating just two days ago but he revised it to say 5mw.
It does appear nice but so does a alot of women until you get them home in the bedroom and the clothes come off and you suddenly find yourself sneaking out the backdoor heading for your car
wondering how the hell she had packaged that nasty bod so nicely???

Same analogy may apply here...www.1337tactical.com/gallery/glaser3l.jpg



Amen brother



Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:31:55 AM EDT
Any laser above 5 mW can do severe damage to your retina and even a 5mW one can cause you to loose some vision if you look into the beam or have a direct reflection of it off of a mirrored surface. We enforce the use of a LIF (Light Interferance Filter) on binoculars and NV devices since there are 100mW and larger lasers flashing around on the battlefield. I highly recommend that anyone who uses lasers often invests in a set of laser safe glasses. These are either green or brown in most cases depending on what wavelength they are designed to stop. Protect your eyes it is hard to hit your target without them.

The Army Owns the Night
GOD bless America
Very Respectfully,
David, South West Asia
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