How did I miss this thread!

If you look up above I also posted a link to the B+H aimer. It is $800. That is more expensive than the IWAL-2. I am used to Russian stuff being inexpensive. Their dual-lam is $1400 -- that is as much as a Laser Devices one. On the plus side, the Russians will sell to me and most of my US counterparts will not.

I ordered a LaRue dual 1-inch mount. I will try it out with a flashlight and an Asian IR laser in it. The Asian laser comes with a fake KAC mount but I would never leave that on my rifle. On the other hand, I see no problem with using an imported laser module as that is probably what the LAM makers do anyway.

Check out this movie -- IR lasers through night-vis:

Video

BE Meyers product.

Originally Posted By rsilvers: Check out this movie -- IR lasers through night-vis: Video BE Meyers product.

That's been around forever. I doubt it's a BE Meyers...The laser is most likely a standard-issue PAQ-4A, primarily used to direct weapon fire at night. It could be a PEQ-2, but doubtful. The flashing light is probably a MS2000, IR strobe.

That is a BE Myers IZLID-200P laser.

Vic, this is for you, a quick question about IR, and by the way thanks for answering all my questions about the MUM!
I have a Surefire M4 Devestator mounted on my Bushy.  If I put an IR filter cap, which I think they sell, on it will it throw any effective lR light at all or would it be a waist of money?  This rifle is already pretty heavy.  Maybe some one else has tried this....

Thanks again!

ReconJack

This is what i got on ebay Ebay

Originally Posted By kirill_p: This is what i got on ebay Ebay

You know that is a visible laser, right?

I wouldn't buy that from a guy from Hong Kong

Originally Posted By bsbg: Originally Posted By kirill_p: This is what i got on ebay Ebay You know that is a visible laser, right?

Yes, well I hope it will be visible

Originally Posted By Duffy: I wouldn't buy that from a guy from Hong Kong hr

As you know majority product made out side of USA, and I know it will work for as good as $80 but will be good for playing games  hippie.gif

Got a laser today, well build and working distantly, defiantly good buy for a $100 but no more then that.

In viewing the video I would have to say that there is an air commanders pointer involved since the beam is so well pronounced it seemed to be in the 100mw power range or more which the PAQ weapons pointers do not have.  The high rate of fire indcates a mini gun from most likely a Marine Corps AH1 Cobra or in an unlikely scenario since it was not moving from an AC 130 Gunship.  The flashing light on the back of the helmet is a Phoenix Light which is an epoxy encased set of 3 IR LEDs that clips onto a 9 V battery.

The Army owns the Night
GOD bless America
Very Respectfully,
David, South West Asia

Originally Posted By mfingar: Originally Posted By rsilvers: Check out this movie -- IR lasers through night-vis: Video BE Meyers product. That's been around forever. I doubt it's a BE Meyers...The laser is most likely a standard-issue PAQ-4A, primarily used to direct weapon fire at night. It could be a PEQ-2, but doubtful. The flashing light is probably a MS2000, IR strobe.

Well the video is hosted on BE Meyers web site, so...

What happened to the side by side comparison of the LAMs; such as the PEQ2A VITAL PAQ4 DBALS & Atilla?

 Are those IR clone laser on ebay any good as far as holding impact and lasting any time?  Also can a Cop buy any   US brand of IR laser without a full dept. order? If so where can you find them and what paper work needs to be sent with order. Thanks!

tag

Forgive me, and direct me, if this one has already been discussed. Didn't have time but to skim the 9 page thread.

Beamshot 780 IR????

Forgive me, and direct me, if this one has already been discussed. Didn't have time but to skim the 9 page thread.

Beamshot 780 IR????


So..... Now I've got one of these. Seems fairly robust however in a dark room I can see the red dot faintly on the wall across the room with the naked eye. Anybody have experience? Is this normal? Is it because we're dealing with 780nm instead of 800+nm?

Originally Posted By shotgun1: Forgive me, and direct me, if this one has already been discussed. Didn't have time but to skim the 9 page thread. Beamshot 780 IR???? So..... Now I've got one of these. Seems fairly robust however in a dark room I can see the red dot faintly on the wall across the room with the naked eye. Anybody have experience? Is this normal? Is it because we're dealing with 780nm instead of 800+nm?

That's normal.

Originally Posted By wes1: That's normal.

Normal for a 780nm IR or normal for ALL, including 800+nm, units?

Am I incorrect in believing that the higher the number the harder to see with the naked eye?

It is totally due to the frequency of the light rays.  The closer that you get to the visible spectrum the more likely that there will be bleed through of some visible light .  Although power is also a factor in what you will see, be very careful because you may see a faint dot with a near visible laser that is pumping out so much energy that just the reflection off of the wall can damage your unprotected eyes.  

We have lasers that go well above 5 watts in use on some large weapon systems that you would not see if you looked right into it but you would feel your eyes burning out.   This type of laser was described as being used by the Soviets against the Afghani people back in the Soviet occupation.  

We issue laser safe goggles to our Soldiers to protect against the 50-150mW power level common on the battlefield.  A 100mW aiming laser looks like a light saber out to several miles on a dark night through a PVS 14.  

All in all use extreme caution when using IR lasers since the chance of being flashed by one is so great because without NV you will not see it scanning toward you.    I am so glad that we have this technology because it gives our Soldiers the edge over the enemy.  And with their use we provide lots of training.  If you really want to use these a lot please email me and i will hook you up with a recruiter.

The Army Owns the Night
God bless America
Very Respectfully,
David,  South West Asia

Originally Posted By QuanticoArms: Hi All, The Laser Devices DBAL-A2 got 1/2 of the Army $500 million dollar PEQ replacement contract.   www.quanticoarms.com/graphics/items/40090_large.jpg We are the GSA Schedule holder for Laser Devices, and if you stop by one of our seven locations, you stand a good chance of seeing/touching/using a Laser Devices DBAL (DBAL-I, DBAL-I2 or DBAL-A2).  We haven't yet fielded all of our demo weapons, so we have four sets we're currently "passing around".  In short, the Laser Devices DBAL is a GREAT piece of gear and is selling really well.   Here's some links to some informaiton about them: DBAL-A2 DBAL-I2 Laser Devices Portion of our website If you are Law Enforcement or Military and would like a demo of a DBAL or any other Laser Devices product, contact the Regional Sales Manager closest to you.

What if Im active Army and want to buy one?

Good luck.  I'm an LEO and would like to purchase a DBAL A2 to use on duty but due to Laser Devices policies I have not had any luck in purchasing one from a dealer.  Apparently they are agency purchase only.  It seems Laser Devices and their dealers are missing out on a lot of business by excluding individual officer purchase.

I love the pics of all your exotic equipment.  Some systems look like they need a small trailer to pull through the woods.  But ironically wouldn't it be sad if some gang banger with a .22 rifle and iron sights got in a lucky shot while we're trying to unlimber our $4,000.00 rigs and 5,000 rounds of exotic ammo?  Such is the real possibility.hock.gif

Awesome thread, guys.  Thanks for everyone's effort putting it together.  

Unfortunately, I believe the info we've seen thus far assumes a good bit of existing knowledge, which civilians in particular (like myself) may not have.  I'll throw out what I've learned so far, but can those of you that know this stuff please critique or add?  I'll go back and edit this post as appropriate....


Terminology:
OTAL = "Offset Tactical Aiming Laser"  The OTAL mounts behind the front sight on M-16 or M-4 style rifles and the laser is offset to project around the front sight.  

ITAL = "Inline Tactical Aiming Laser"  The ITAL mounts on flat top rifles or on a barrel mounted rail and the laser aligns with the center of the barrel.  

MOLAD = "Multi-Operational Aiming Laser Device"  Typically a tactical flashlight/IR illuminator combined with visible and infrared aiming lasers.  

D-LAP = Dual Laser (typically combination of IR/visible)

S-LAP = Single Laser


Models: (admittedly, I'm focusing on the civilian-obtainable ones here)
AN/PAQ-4C (in EE for $1,200)
PAQ-4C (clones for $275 on eBay)
D-LAP Dual Aiming Laser (Vis & IR) clone ($500 on eBay)
S-LAP IR Laser clone ($275 on eBay)
LAM 10M (EE for $700)

** I'll add some specs and advantages/disadvantages as I get time and input **


Considerations:
Type: Obviously inline or closer to the bore is best, as any angle introduced between the barrel and laser will be aggravated by distance.  I'm still trying to figure out which models would work around suppressors, too.  

Power: Military articles often call for more power for leaders (1000 mW?) with the squad using typical PAQ4-level devices.  One would think PAQ4-level (1 to 3 mW?) power would suffice for individuals.  

Supportability: It has been pointed out that current issue gear is going to be more supportable (parts and expertise to repair) than a rarer model.  I would also contend that it will be more likely viewed as stolen, too, so a legit owner will want to maintain paper trail.  


I will note that I am leaning towards purchasing a few clones on eBay at the moment.  I understand there are some weaknesses, and am planning to swap out adjustment screws for example.  I am also interested in anyone that has a lead on how to mount one of these systems to an MP5 with a suppressor.

This  is from the night vision forum.I thought it belonged here too:

I have had good luck with the L.D. knock offs once I make a few mods.
First replace the mount with a Larue 17s replacement( you will need to drill another hole in the mount)
Second, you will need to replace the turrents with a stud, nut and locking washer.To do so, remove the turrent protectors(use a razor blade to lift them off, as they are glued on)Then unscrew the keeper plates.Remove the turrent and bolt.Replace the  bolt with a stud(metric from a REAL hardware store)followed by a locking washer and finally the nut.Reinstall the keeper plates.
To adjust, slightly loosing nut, adjust stud, and retighten nut.I will post pics tomorrw.

Here is a picture of my ISM by Insight Technology. In the low power mode, the IR laser and IR illuminator work fine for CQB work and there is very little blumming with my MUM Gen. III. When in a room that has no windows the defuser on the illuminator works great and floods the room with IR light so that the MUM sees clear in the room. The only down side is the front sight will shadow and you will see the shadow of the front sight off to your right front. When wearing a gas mask the visible red laser works great.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/924/pdrm0194ew3.jpg

very nice , any more pics?

This is the only other picture that I have. I will try to take some photos using the lasers and looking through my MUM.


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3594/pdrm0193zo0.jpg

Here are a few pictures of my MUM and my PEQ-2A before I got my ISM.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6546/pdrm0262rb0.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3308/pdrm0267gk3.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3879/pdrm0274ux8.jpg

Wow, very nice.

tag for info o the VITAL-2 and the PAC-4C

I am totally new to lasers and IR's so I have a question I hope someone can help me with.  On the OTAL with the 635nM laser, I take it this is a visible type laser?  I mean, do you see a red dot sitting on your target and nothing else (like my Glock tactical light and laser) or do you see a red beam of light all the way out to the target?  I hope this isnt a stupid question, but I just don't know this stuff.  Thanks.

Originally Posted By Guntoter: ...or do you see a red beam of light all the way out....

Not a stupid question.  A (visible spectrum) laser is the same as white light.  You will see a beam if there is smoke, fog, etc. along it's path.  Otherwise, no, you won't see the beam.

And yes, 635nm is visible spectrum.

Steven1513 and Victor, thanks very much as that helps greatly!

Originally Posted By Duffy: snip... The PAQ4C is on the right side of a KAC FF RAS MRE equipped rifle because there's not enough upper rail estate for it, and there I have to use the much too long remote switch (I won't call it tape, because it's sqaure with a little round button in the middle).  The position of the paddle release on both the PAQ4C and VITAL2  is on the rear left side, where unless they're mounted on top, you're forced to use the remote switch, as it's quite impossible to use the paddle switch with either IR laser mounted on the left or right.  In the case with the PAQ4C, as the rail cover will get in the way of the paddle switch, so you have to make sure there's no rail cover where the paddle will go.  That's so with a KAC RAS anyway, with a DD handguard that's thinner that may not be a problem.

The paddle switch of the PAQ-4C works just fine [momentary position] on a DD handguard when mounted at the 12 o'clock position, even with Mapul low profile rail covers in place.  In fact, it activates even when the laser is mounted far enough back where the paddle is over the handguard attachment nut [I prefer a magwell grip versus VFG or horizontal handguard hold].  The lead for the remote switch is indeed waaaay long to be particularly useful.

As far as the "benefit" of the constant on switch position, it would only be useful in the handheld mode, as the unit would have to be mounted upside down for the switch to rotate that far when mounted on anything in a conventional fashion.  

TLR-2 Infrared conversion

Hello all, great thread! I was wondering how much do you guys think it would cost to purchase an Atilla-200 new?

Is it legal to buy/sell one from/to an individual who has one?

Originally Posted By fordfreek: Hello all, great thread! I was wondering how much do you guys think it would cost to purchase an Atilla-200 new? Is it legal to buy/sell one from/to an individual who has one?

It's my understanding the ATILLAs are VERY rare in the civi market,it would command a premium price.(Well over $2,000)
I would verify it's not stolen millitary equipment.

height=8

Originally Posted By wes1: height=8 Originally Posted By fordfreek: Hello all, great thread! I was wondering how much do you guys think it would cost to purchase an Atilla-200 new? Is it legal to buy/sell one from/to an individual who has one? It's my understanding the ATILLAs are VERY rare in the civi market,it would command a premium price.(Well over $2,000) I would verify it's not stolen millitary equipment.

How would I verify it's not stolen?
ETA: Did they ever sell them to the public?

Originally Posted By fordfreek: Originally Posted By wes1: Originally Posted By fordfreek: Hello all, great thread! I was wondering how much do you guys think it would cost to purchase an Atilla-200 new? Is it legal to buy/sell one from/to an individual who has one? It's my understanding the ATILLAs are VERY rare in the civi market,it would command a premium price.(Well over $2,000) I would verify it's not stolen millitary equipment. How would I verify it's not stolen? Call NVEC ETA: Did they ever sell them to the public?IR lasers have never been for sale to public