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Posted: 8/19/2004 12:00:49 PM EDT
Any see Alien vs. Predator and notice all the green lasers on their H&K's?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 1:10:18 PM EDT
Green Lasers are SWEET!!! I love that pic of the 870 with Surefire green laser on the side. That just gets me all hot and bothered...... did I really just say that
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 1:15:03 PM EDT
I was thinking before I even opened this that someone had just seen AVP. My girlfriend says green is the easiest color for humans to see.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:27:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hound:
I was thinking before I even opened this that someone had just seen AVP. My girlfriend says green is the easiest color for humans to see.



I'm pretty sure your girlfriend is right, but some people would say cyan or turquiose is the easiest to see. At any rate, all of those are way easier to see than red! I wish SureFire would hurry up and release theirs and stop teasing us...

-Randy
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 2:40:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By double_r76:

Originally Posted By hound:
I was thinking before I even opened this that someone had just seen AVP. My girlfriend says green is the easiest color for humans to see.



I'm pretty sure your girlfriend is right, but some people would say cyan or turquiose is the easiest to see. At any rate, all of those are way easier to see than red! I wish SureFire would hurry up and release theirs and stop teasing us...

-Randy



And green/red blindness is the most common form of color-blindness...

'course, a blue laser-dot would be near invisible...
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 5:19:53 PM EDT by roptics]
For daylight adapted eyes your eye peaks in sensitivity at ~550nm and for a dark adapted eye your eye peaks ~ 507nm. So at night you have better vision towards the blue end of the spectrum.

From the graph below you can see that a 5mW 532nm laser diode will appear ~ 2.7 times brighter than a 635nm laser diode. So if you have the choice between a 635nm and a 650nm diode get the 635nm one because it will appear brighter. The closer to 550nm the better.

I should go into business making the 532nm assemblies because I work with this stuff every day. I could also refit lasers with nir/ir sources for night vision use.








Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:05:19 AM EDT
Who makes the one shown in that movie?
Been wanting one since Surefire was playing with their's. L80 I think.
-Steve
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:19:11 AM EDT
roptics, you absolutely should do that. You'd make a killing off of this board alone on just the IR modifications.

If you're really serious that is.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:53:20 AM EDT
I second that. Just look at his post!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:37:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 5:39:12 PM EDT by whs78]
Beamshot makes one, looks like someone took a pen laser and put a scope ring on it. I think it would probably be best to wait until Surefire comes out with theirs.

How hard would it be to change out the diode on an existing laser sight?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:38:05 PM EDT
http://www.beamshot.com/laser_sight_beamshot_greenbeam_2000.html
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:42:06 PM EDT
my 2cents...

I think the environment determines the best "pick-up" of color. I understand the science of green but think we should consider contrast.

We used a green laser during an exercise in a wooded area and had some difficulty picking up the light against the folliage or even against a GP medium (a tent). Green, however did work well in the MOUT (urban) areas.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:10:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1001001:
roptics, you absolutely should do that. You'd make a killing off of this board alone on just the IR modifications.

If you're really serious that is.



+1

Roptics, I honestly think that you should go for it!!! I will buy one IR and one Green
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:22:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By whs78:
Beamshot makes one, looks like someone took a pen laser and put a scope ring on it. I think it would probably be best to wait until Surefire comes out with theirs.

How hard would it be to change out the diode on an existing laser sight?



If you are referring swapping out diodes for a greenie and not an IR, you can't. Currently there are no green diodes. Green is made from splitting an IR beam with a crystal. This means you lose a lot of power and to compensate with more power generates a lot of heat, and all of this with a crystal that must be held in alignment making the whole affair more fragile. The Beamshot is not in the same class of quality and durability as the high quality visible reds from other manufactures. Surefire is still fooling around with their green L80, but it does not use a green diode and must suffer the consequences of reduced resilience, power hungry draw, and extra heat. Laser Devices won't even consider devoting resources towards a greenie until technology improves, and those are the two top weapons laser manufacturs

roptics, don't tease us. I hope that wasn't just cheap talk as pointed out there would be HUGE business for IR laser conversion, I'd be one of the first in line.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:23:35 AM EDT
As would I!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 7:22:38 PM EDT
Easy experiment someone donate or sacrafice a broken laser site that you already have and I'll see what I can do.

As for green they use a doubling crystal (YVO4) to convert 1064 energy to 532. Continuous use would be a problem but for < 1 hour CW operation there is not a problem.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:11:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 2:14:00 PM EDT by 1001001]
What about an old 90's red laser that's actually pretty low power? The unit is an old tac star model that was for a pistol mount but I've used it on long guns with night vision.

The beam is weak compared to todays standards but if you were to alter it to IR or green it should be no problem as I was normally using this laser with night vision anyway.

IM me if you want to get together on this and see what we can do.

Would you be able to return ship ok so that I can field test it with a PVS 14 and see how well it holds up and retains accuracy, etc.? I can include funds for return postage if necessary.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:20:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 10:21:57 PM EDT by makkoo1974]

Originally Posted By roptics:
Easy experiment someone donate or sacrafice a broken laser site that you already have and I'll see what I can do.

As for green they use a doubling crystal (YVO4) to convert 1064 energy to 532. Continuous use would be a problem but for < 1 hour CW operation there is not a problem.



Hey, I have a green laser... it's one of those cheap pointers... I open it to know how it works and in the proces I guess I broke the driver, however the optics, collimator and the diode are perfect... it's yours if you want it!!! if you are interested, I will buy a cheap laser sight to see if this works out or not???
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:29:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 4:50:05 PM EDT by pathfinder74]
In keeping with this thread...


I was about to start this topic myself until I did a search. And yes, I just saw AvP last night, but I think I saw them on 24 or something as well. It does look pretty damned awesome.


Originally Posted By ROK:
my 2cents...

I think the environment determines the best "pick-up" of color. I understand the science of green but think we should consider contrast.

We used a green laser during an exercise in a wooded area and had some difficulty picking up the light against the folliage or even against a GP medium (a tent). Green, however did work well in the MOUT (urban) areas.



Well that settles it... red on one side of the handguards and green on the other. O rmaybe on the flatop... it might actually create a demand for all those tri-risers that nobody is buying.

If it could be done without looking ridiculous I would consider throwing one of each on an AR, just for shits and giggles.

If they could some how come up with a single device that allows you to alternate between one or the other as environment dictates they would probably make a killing. I can't see why it would be difficult, but then again I don't know jack. I would think they could come up with something about the size of an M3 or M6 Tactical Illuminator that houses both color lasers.
Why couldn't they?

Cool info btw... It interesting to find out there are laser guys lurking around here.


ETA: Here are some links to the Beamshot ones...

[I love how they have it on an A1... their marketing guys must not have a clue. That or it's an Airsoft. ]
Centurion
nightvisionsales.com
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 7:49:14 PM EDT
Still waiting to mod a broke one for someone.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 12:24:59 AM EDT
I tried to reply to you via IM and got a response that you didn't accept IM's. I also replied to the e mail that you sent but never heard back from you.

If the item I had wasn't compatible then I certainly understand.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:55:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 7:00:09 PM EDT by Snaps]
I just had to bring this up because I emailed surefire a week or so ago and got a reply when I checked my email today that their green laser was not planned for production at this time


Anybody know another good one?

EDIT: THat beamshot won't work I don't think. I wanted it in with a light.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:36:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
Anybody know another good one?



There is no such thing. Even the Surefire unit was not "a good one", hence the decision not to put it into general production. The problem is the current technology. There is no green diode, therefore a weapons grade green laser cannot be manufactured that is in the same class as red or IR. There are other green lasers, but none currently are in the same class for durability, compactness, heat generation, and power consumption as non-green. For now, we are limited to cheap laser pointers and non-weapons grade green weapons lasers. The beamshot is not up to the quality and performance level of "good" weapons lasers. There is one other green laser that is probably the toughest yet from SK Industries. It's large which I assume is necessary for durability, aiming consistancy, and heat dissapation. Apparently it's tough enough for a M2HB from the website. It also will suck down the power like any other green laser which is far greater than reds or IR.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:05:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:40:04 PM EDT
I can't find anything more about this laser, but, in a recent issue of Law Enforcement Technology, a green laser is advertised. It is described as being from A.L.D. Co. Inc./De Nio Enterprises and that the company may have ventured with another company named S&E Advanced Systems. The model number is SE800. The article even has a picture of the laser. It looks like a medium sized surefire. Mayve this one will be of good quality?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:35:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hound:
I was thinking before I even opened this that someone had just seen AVP. My girlfriend says green is the easiest color for humans to see.



Green is the easiest color to see underwater, on good-old dry land though, it's a bright amber. If you want to see it easier, move it or make it flash (which is translated by your eye as movement or close to it).
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 1:16:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 1:18:09 AM EDT by AK_Mike]

Originally Posted By tweeter:
on good-old dry land though, it's a bright amber.



Untrue, the eye is more sensitive to the green spectrum. It's a researchable fact.

"For daylight adapted eyes your eye peaks in sensitivity at ~550nm and for a dark adapted eye your eye peaks ~ 507nm. So at night you have better vision towards the blue end of the spectrum. "

Reread the information earlier in the thread.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:59:54 PM EDT
One of the benefits of green lasers in other applications may be a serious drawback as a weapon aiming device.

The beam itself is quite highly visible. Whereas it might take some looking to identify the source of a red laser dot, the green dot and associated beam will trace directly back to its origin.

Probably not an enormous concern at the range, but if your target is inclined to fire back at you it would be something to think about.

Jim
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:57:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 7:38:02 PM EDT by AK_Mike]

Originally Posted By Kansas_Physicist:
The beam itself is quite highly visible.



Sorry to beat on your first post but under normal conditions the "beam" is invisible. You would only see the beam under hazy conditions like fog, smoke, rain, etc... If the conditions are such, you would see a red beam just as easily. There is no difference between red and green beams other than the frequency/color of the beam.

If it's clear out, the only way you would see anything would be the source and you would have to be pointed in or near your eyes - other than seeing the dot on yourself or another backround. Repeated firing may cause enough local smoke that you may see a bit of the beam trace back to the laser, but we are talking inches or perhaps feet, and that's if you keep the rifle in the smoke and the smoke doesn't blow away.


Well this is the second post of mine like this I had to eat. I'm so used to talking about red lasers I had forgotten about the nature of greenies. Normally, when it's clear, the particles in the air aren't enough to bouce back enough light to see the beam but the green color is so much more sensitive to the eye it can really stand out, 20x brighter and enough to make the beam visible.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:28:51 PM EDT
here a site that sells a green laser but i dont know how much taking a guess $$$$$. it looks huge though. LOL
http://www.law-17.com/GreenLaser.html
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:28:37 AM EDT
I'm holding out or the black-dot laser... with one of those you can't be seen and the target can't see the dot on them... it's flawless... except for the shooter not being able to see it either, but that's not important, is it?

Actually, without getting into a huge quantum physics, to energetically/mechanically project a void of light, would you almost be placinga black hole on something. Obviously at a short distance you could just say it's a shadow, but to send out a defined lack of light to a point target over a distance, you would rally be destroying light.

I really don't know what the hell I'm sayin... I stayed up way too late last night and got up way to early this morning...

Link Posted: 10/19/2004 1:50:18 PM EDT
I would choose to differ with the fact that the beam is not visible. Indeed IT IS. Maybe you have never seen a green laser before. But i have one mounted in a PAQ/4 casing just for kicks. It is indeed visible.

matt
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:35:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I'm holding out or the black-dot laser... with one of those you can't be seen and the target can't see the dot on them... it's flawless... except for the shooter not being able to see it either, but that's not important, is it?

Actually, without getting into a huge quantum physics, to energetically/mechanically project a void of light, would you almost be placinga black hole on something. Obviously at a short distance you could just say it's a shadow, but to send out a defined lack of light to a point target over a distance, you would rally be destroying light.

I really don't know what the hell I'm sayin... I stayed up way too late last night and got up way to early this morning...




Yes, you stayed up way too late. I've heard better pseudo-physics in episodes of Star Trek. More importantly though, if you had a device mounted on an ar-15 that could somehow generate a small black hole, you really wouldn't have much need for the ar-15 itself anymore.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:19:13 PM EDT
Light is like wind in this discussion. You can't see wind but you can see what it does just like you can't see light until it interacts with something. Interacts with either your eye (beam on retina), or you see the laser light interact with something in the air and scatter. You will only see the laser when it is illuminating something.

Two things happen happen with 532nm sources that make them more visible than a 633nm source: 1) Your eye is more sensitive to 532nm so any little scatter or reflection you get you are more likely to see, 2) 532nm is a shorter wavelength so it is going to scatter easier than a longer wavelength source.

Given a dust and moisture free environment you will not see a laser beam you will only see it reflect off of the target it is hitting. See 532nm laser sources coupled into and out of fiber below. You can see the scatter but you can't see the beam.


Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:57:05 PM EDT
Well, I do know that when playing with NVG my IR laser just shows up on what it's pointed at but the Red laser shows up as a beam from the target all the way back to the gun. And in pictures of greenies in normal environment I appear to see them as I do with NVG on the Red Laser (IE think light saber not weapons pointer)

It would be very good to have a switchable device Red/Green/IR in one package but I don't see that happening to soon (IR to green would be easiest as you could divert the starting beam from the splitter crystal but alignment would be the big problem).

Just my .02, and you get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:14:07 PM EDT
I heard that the green lasers you can see in broad daylight... Know of any companys that sell em??Wow that would be cool..Just what I need more toys lol...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:03:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 12:15:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ROK:
my 2cents...

I think the environment determines the best "pick-up" of color. I understand the science of green but think we should consider contrast.

We used a green laser during an exercise in a wooded area and had some difficulty picking up the light against the folliage or even against a GP medium (a tent). Green, however did work well in the MOUT (urban) areas.



But you must also consider that if you are in a position where you are aiming at someone with a berry bush as a backdrop you wont know which red dot is yours. We should have pink lasers, unless your doing a tactical invasion of a little girls room it shouldnt blend in to well with any surroundings.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 8:01:56 PM EDT
I want one of the things just for possible zombie attacks.. I saw house of hte dead and know how much of a difference they can make
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 8:11:05 PM EDT
I saw that movie too and all I can remember is Kira Clavell.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 2:38:02 PM EDT
which one was she?
Link Posted: 11/6/2004 1:02:09 AM EDT
While I would like to have a green laser as much as anybody, red lasers still have their place. During daylight a green laser will be much easier to see on target, red lasers aren't generally visible more than a few yards away. At night, though, a green laser will act like a tracer that can be seen in mid-air allowing anybody to instantly locate the source. A red laser won't have that effect except in fog/smoke so someone would have to have a direct line-of-sight to the aperture to identify your location, if they were off to the side (and your weapon was retracted behind some concealment) they wouldn't see it.

--cfors
Link Posted: 11/7/2004 6:42:47 PM EDT
If green is more visible why don't they make green reticles in any of the Aimpoint, EOTech, or TACOG scopes?
Link Posted: 12/4/2004 9:31:03 AM EDT
Surefire is making a green laser, model # L80. www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/359/sesent/00
Probably will be pricy like Greenbeam 2000. My question is that why there is no cheaper, more affordable ones on the market? You see 5mw 532nm green laser point all the time on eBay for $50-$80. It should not cost that much more to make it a water and shock proof gun sight.
Link Posted: 12/4/2004 10:02:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2004 10:03:42 AM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By ar15seeker:
Surefire is making a green laser, model # L80. www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/359/sesent/00
Probably will be pricy like Greenbeam 2000. My question is that why there is no cheaper, more affordable ones on the market? You see 5mw 532nm green laser point all the time on eBay for $50-$80. It should not cost that much more to make it a water and shock proof gun sight.



HAS SOMETHING CHANGED IN THE PAST YEAR OR TWO? They are not going to make this to my knowledge. This has been coming soon forever and even Surefire has said its not ready for the bigtime.
Link Posted: 12/4/2004 10:04:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
If green is more visible why don't they make green reticles in any of the Aimpoint, EOTech, or TACOG scopes?



Battery Life.
Link Posted: 12/4/2004 1:13:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2004 8:06:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
If green is more visible why don't they make green reticles in any of the Aimpoint, EOTech, or TACOG scopes?


You would have to ask them, that.
But, have you ever noticed that night vision scopes use a green display?
Link Posted: 12/11/2004 10:21:08 PM EDT
I talked to a Surefire Rep about a month ago about the new Benelli M80 rail system for the Benelli M4, and in passing I asked what had happened to the L80 green laser. She said that the project is still active, and going thru some R&D still. No mention of time frame. The feeling was they were busy working on other projects they felt would make more money.
-Steve
Link Posted: 12/11/2004 11:24:36 PM EDT
That would be putting it mildly. Everybody wants to sell green lasers, we want to buy them, the technology just isn't there. They will forever have it in R&D until the technology comes along, and no general sales until then. Laser Devices isn't even wasting any money or time in R&D on it until the technology (read as green diode) comes along.
Link Posted: 12/12/2004 2:26:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I'm holding out or the black-dot laser... with one of those you can't be seen and the target can't see the dot on them... it's flawless... except for the shooter not being able to see it either, but that's not important, is it?



I've got a dozen green golf balls I'll sell you...
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