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Posted: 7/27/2003 9:50:44 PM EDT
Spent 5 days training at MOUT City @ Camp Pendleton using a Surefire G2 mounted to an RAS on my M4 and am pleased to report that it did great. I fired in excess of 600 rounds both live fire and blanks during our training with no adverse effects on the Surefire light. This is a stock G2 without the anti-shock bezel and other additions. It was superior to all the other light brands brought to the field by my fellow soldiers. I used it extensively during night operations as our PVS14's were near worthless due to no ambient light in the darken rooms of MOUT City. The IR light on the PVS14 seemed more of a detriment than a help when in use by multiple soldiers.

I mounted my Surefire on the forward end of the RAS and used my knuckle to activate the "on" switch while gripping my own custom foreward grip. This seemed the way to go as there was more control over it than the guys using pressure pads which were often inadvertently activated.

I'm probably going to buy an IR tip-off filter for the G2 for the next time as we really needed additional IR light to find and ID targets with our PVS14's. We solved the problem somewhat by using chem lights to toss into a room when clearing it. It didn't "blind" the PVS14 but gave us enough light to locate targets. We definitely could use more IR chem lights which were in very short supply.

Many in our Platoon didn't have any lights at all and it was "must have" item during training. I positioned mine on the bottom of the RAS rail, but will try the side rail next time.

Kudos again to San Berdo SWAT for the outstanding training!

F.A.S. Out
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 2:08:18 PM EDT
FAS - I used a similar setup and got similar results. One thing you might want to try (I am) is the new GG&G offset mount. It mounts foward of the foward grip, and it positions a mount to the side of the same foward grip. Thus allowing you to activate the G2 with your thumb (instead of the knuckle). Overall a better solution.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:42:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 7:48:09 PM EDT by IPSC_GUY]
Which mount do you use on yours? I use a G-2 in a Fobus mount just forward of the pistol grip using the knuckle on off method as well and it works slick as snot. This method was showed to me by another IPSC shooter who uses a streamlight scorpion. I don't have a shock-isolated bezel either although I am going to get one since they are like $25. Now all the surefire people are going to come out of the wood wok and say that the G2 body will allow the batteries to slam into the back of the bulb, which it will. I am working on a spacer that will screw in behind the bezel and isolate the batteries from the bulb. Now in reality is all of this necessary? Good question. Every owner of a "real" surefire weapon light that paid well over a $100.00 will tell you yes. So far my G2 has not failed and it has withstood at least a couple thousand rounds of 5.56 from my M-4 with out a hiccup. This after I dropped my G-2 from the rotor head of a CH-53E all the way to the flight deck and it never went out or broke the bulb. I think the G-2 is pretty damn tough and a hell of a bargain. OK... Surefire guys… you may commence fire IPSC_GUY sends P.S. A tip off infared filter sounds like a hell of an idea as well.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 5:43:54 PM EDT
I have a suggestion, If you find the G2 is working for you, don't get a shock isolated bezel for it, get another G2 (after all, they are about the same price!) That way you not only have a spare bulb, you also have a two cell battery carrier that happens to also make light! Al
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 9:00:27 PM EDT
As I was pressed for time (and $$$) I just bought a cheapy chi-com 26mm scope mount on Ebay. $5 for a pair. It worked fine with the thumbscrew cap and some loctite. I see the Fobus mount does fit the G2 which I will probably buy soon. I agree w/Size15s; I'll probably just buy another G2 than the accesories on the off chance my current G2 has a problem. Thanks all for the feedback. F.A.S. Out
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 12:06:11 AM EDT
i have done the same thing w/ my 6p for about 2 years. had about 500 rounds through it on two different ar's w/out a problem. i did break down and get the shock isolated bezel...i always fall for the what if it breaks pitch, lol. on the equip exchange, i got one for less than $22 shipped. IM me if you want the dealer info.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 6:28:32 AM EDT
I think the "nitrolon" of the G2 is quite more shock resistant than the aluminum of the other lights. I've got the SIS bezel on all of my handheld lights now.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 6:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 6:39:26 AM EDT by JayCeeNC]
I mounted a G2 to my rail using an old low mount 1" scope ring that I spray painted flat black. Very cheap, very solid. I use the index finger knuckle to activate it. If I wanted more strength I think there's room for 2 scope rings, but I was looking for the lightest weight up front. The GG&G mount looks nice...but not $75 nicer than the setup I have! [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/188491/newarfrontgrip.jpg [/img]
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 6:42:50 AM EDT
I use the Wilson Tac Mount to hold my G2. It's seen about a thousand rounds mounted like this with no problems. Normal grip on the M4 handguards puts my thumb right on the tailcap switch. [img]http://www.supercharger.net/private/lwar.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 7:25:27 AM EDT
JayCeeNC; I have that same type of forward pistol grip for my AR. I used it inside of the issued Knights Armament type, and (not bragging here btw) but most of the other soldiers who tried my grip preferred it. They liked the rubber grip it offered, however the KAC was easier to take on and off. F.A.S. Out
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 9:57:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 9:59:09 AM EDT by Forest]
Originally Posted By JayCeeNC: ....The GG&G mount looks nice...but not $75 nicer than the setup I have!
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Well you'd still need your entire setup to use the GG&G mount - it just positions the light a bit to the right (or left) and back so you can operate it with your thumb. Knuckle works (I've done it myself), but thumb is better. With the thumb there is less 'strain', you don't have to have an unnatural grip (in a stress situation your hand will be clamping to that foward grip), there is less chance of accidentally setting it off (happened to me once or twice when doing drills from low ready), and with the thumb its easier to rotate the switch to the 'always on position' should you need to. BTW what grip is that? Do you have a weight for it? Is it all plastic? Where did you find it? Thanks! P.S. here is the setup I was using: [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aQDBAD0garDTLeIiBugM2zMQKIIn!Wx54RjJ5Y*I7swJ­jqOJ9gXfwRwu0Em5Ky3TN6uhaGQkeeohjCEkpDuhPEDZW­qfItMdPmvE*dRlpJzDz3ZxzHIAtWP1ElOksYB0VJJnCud­!DqT8Nx0IfJED15EghaLRYVqiX/Carbine%202%20Weapons%2002.jpg?dc=4675430733652789870[/img]
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 1:17:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 1:18:23 PM EDT by JayCeeNC]
I got that foregrip from M&A Parts when I got the lightweight 16" upper for my rifle. Price was $50 including a piece of rail, which I replaced with the tapered rail you see in the pic. The foregrip has "SOG" on one side, and "Made In USA" on the other. I don't know the weight, don't have a scale to weigh it, but it feels pretty light. The body is plastic, with a screwin rod from the bottom of the grip. The top of the rod fits into the rail slot and tightens up the piece. The grip surface area is a knurled sort of soft rubber, really gives me a "sticky" grip area. As far as using the GG&G mount, I prefer to wrap my thumb around the grip at the top, like when you're holding a bat. Sticking my thumb out to the side to activate the GG&G setup feels awkward for me, not as secure on the grip as I like. JayCeeNC
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 8:35:04 PM EDT
IPSC_GUY...
I am working on a spacer that will screw in behind the bezel and isolate the batteries from the bulb.
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Please, tell us more. Will you be making these for sale? Pics would be nice! Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 10:10:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 10:11:47 AM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
I just completed mounting up my O.D. Green G2 nitrolon on my RRA mid-length carbine handhuard, 10 oclock position. O.D. Green Surefire G2 Nitrolon - $26.00 2 1/2" rail - $19.00 Simmons 1" Low mount ring - $6.75 Total- $51.75 Works quite well, easy to hit tailcap switch with left thumb. Mid-length handguards seem to give you a little extra room to mount this sort of thing and still have plenty of grip room to keep the handguard from becoming cluttered. drilled two holes in handguard at 10 oclock. used exacto-knife to make small cuts on the handguard ribs so that rail laid flat and in the right position. used thin automotive asbestos grey gasket material that I had laying around under the rail to make the mount even more secure and shock proof. I'm real happy with the G2.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 10:36:41 AM EDT
Glad to hear your G2 Nit works good on a carbine. I'm going to do just that (G2 Nit / Fobus TLM) instead.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 5:35:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 5:40:32 PM EDT by IPSC_GUY]
NYPatriot I had not planned on making these battery isolation spacers (you like that?, I just came up with that) to sell. I was just trying to get my machinest to build one. If they turn out to be easy who knows. I know a local manufacture of fire arms related stuff who is always looking for new stuff to build (he has to pay for a shiney new CNC mil) so Maybe. I will let everyone know. I am completely surprised all the surefire weapons light owners have not come out and said "G-2 no weapon light" or something along those lines. IPSC_GUY sends
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 7:26:36 PM EDT
IPSC Guy, I've seen a number of posts warning of the dire consequences of using a G2 as a weapons light. Mostly they mention the need for a shockproof bezel, battery isolation, or something like that. Personally, my rifle will be shot little and carried much, so I don't worry about it. It may be that once one spends $300 on a light system, they're a bit miffed to see someone with a perfectly good $50 setup! _____________ JayCeeNC
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 8:33:31 PM EDT
Put it this way, your $50 set up may work just fine. I'll never say it absolutely wont. A $400 set may fail? I'll never say it absolutely wont. Its a light, it has a bulb. Bulbs are fragile. Sometimes guns get treadted roughly. Crap happens. Weapons lights just reduce a lot of the possibilities of failure. Ken Good who used to teach low light tactics for the Surefire Institute, and still teaches them at Strategos, has reported seeing non shock isolated systems break often. He has said he has seen systems which do not isolate the batteries from the bulb fail due to the bulbs and batteries smacking into one another. Someone like him sees this sort of thing every single day. Day in and day out. Year after year. I see it as a wise decision to take note of what he may have to say about lights and their applications over a one time report. Especially when we have seen other board members say their handheld lights failed on them when used as weapon lights. How many failures have we seen with M900's, M500, MU systems, classic 660 systems? Not a whole lot. Bottom line is, if something is working for you... great. Will it be working 2k rounds later? After a fall or spill? After 12 months? If you get a weapons light to begin with, I'd bet so. If you dont, I hope so.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 10:45:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 10:48:38 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
New-arguy... as always, your words carry much truth & wisdom. Point is however, if you install a shock isolated bezel & a battery isolation spacer in your G2, you [i]do[/i] have a weapons light (and it didn't cost you hundreds of dollars, either)!!!
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:34:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 3:35:12 AM EDT by new-arguy]
I wasnt aware that there was a battery isolation spacer available? Thats interesting to know that there is one? Do you have a part # etc? A picture?
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:44:02 AM EDT
i totally agree with everything new arguy said. If you do go with the G2 setup i would suggest that you invest another $30 for a spare handheld G2 and spend a little time using it with your weapon. Regardless of the weapon light its a good policy to have a backup.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 7:20:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Ken Good who used to teach low light tactics for the Surefire Institute, and still teaches them at Strategos, has reported seeing non shock isolated systems break often. He has said he has seen systems which do not isolate the batteries from the bulb fail due to the bulbs and batteries smacking into one another.
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Giles Stock (also a consultant to SureFire and a SWAT instructors) says the same things. That's why my G2/Z32 was a interim solution till I select which Weaponlight I wanted.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:33:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 8:35:24 AM EDT by BrightFlashlights]
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:48:34 AM EDT
If you are happy with the G2 as is, why change it? Just get some extra bulbs, perhaps a high output bulb, they work very well on the 6v SurFires. Use the money to get a SureFire IR illuminator, M1 (?). You could probalby swap it into your current "mount" or get another mount to put it on the rifle. Just be aware it will be a somewhat narrow beam. The bezel of the illuminator will also put out a very small amount of visible light while in use.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 9:47:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: If you are happy with the G2 as is, why change it? Just get some extra bulbs, perhaps a high output bulb, they work very well on the 6v SurFires. Use the money to get a SureFire IR illuminator, M1 (?). You could probalby swap it into your current "mount" or get another mount to put it on the rifle. Just be aware it will be a somewhat narrow beam. The bezel of the illuminator will also put out a very small amount of visible light while in use.
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No offense, but that has to be the most ass-backwards thing I have heard in a while. Someone should use a G2 as a weapon light who can afford night vision? (you mentioned getting an IR illuminator) I would think that to someone with that much cash a G2 is a nice handheld to throw in the glove box.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 10:07:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 11:56:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 11:58:08 AM EDT by DevL]
No I did not do that. I simply posted that to get Surefire to admit that the mount was defective. They did admit this but not in the way I expected. It ended up that I did not have a broken or defective mount at all. I was temporarily banned from this site over this issue (lying and saying I put 80 lbs of pressure on the unit... which would have destroyed my rail BTW) and the final word from the head of the Surefire customer service department was that he could in fact feel the movement I was talking about (funny noone else there could) but that all ARMS mounts will do this even when brand new. Mine was only a tiny bit worse than average according to him. I was returned my original M900 and now that I have used it for a while I realize I only feel it move if I check to see if it can move or wobble but never notice it in actual use. I was also told by one individual the polymer grip itself will flex slighly. The flex on mine was mostly in one direction... against the throw lever. The head of customer service confirmed it flexes more against the lever on all ARMS throw lever equiped M900s. The fore and aft movement is there so if a few grians of sand get in the rail it will still lock in dirty field conditions. Since you own an M900 push it fore and aft very hard and yours will move too, its supposed to. I hope this is the last I have to talk about all that mess.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 6:17:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: If you are happy with the G2 as is, why change it? Just get some extra bulbs, perhaps a high output bulb, they work very well on the 6v SurFires. Use the money to get a SureFire IR illuminator, M1 (?). You could probalby swap it into your current "mount" or get another mount to put it on the rifle. Just be aware it will be a somewhat narrow beam. The bezel of the illuminator will also put out a very small amount of visible light while in use.
View Quote
No offense, but that has to be the most ass-backwards thing I have heard in a while. Someone should use a G2 as a weapon light who can afford night vision? (you mentioned getting an IR illuminator) I would think that to someone with that much cash a G2 is a nice handheld to throw in the glove box.
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I believe that he was responding to the original post, in which the person had access to NV equipment during his training session. Probably it was supplied to him, and he wasn't responsible to buy it himself.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 6:29:18 PM EDT
And don't forget how broke we are right after we buy that latest $400 bauble for our ARs...we can only afford a $30 light hehehe.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 6:50:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: If you are happy with the G2 as is, why change it? Just get some extra bulbs, perhaps a high output bulb, they work very well on the 6v SurFires. Use the money to get a SureFire IR illuminator, M1 (?). You could probalby swap it into your current "mount" or get another mount to put it on the rifle. Just be aware it will be a somewhat narrow beam. The bezel of the illuminator will also put out a very small amount of visible light while in use.
View Quote
No offense, but that has to be the most ass-backwards thing I have heard in a while. Someone should use a G2 as a weapon light who can afford night vision? (you mentioned getting an IR illuminator) I would think that to someone with that much cash a G2 is a nice handheld to throw in the glove box.
View Quote
Well since he starts the post talking about PVS14's, IR illuminators, and using chemlights to supplement the night vision, I guess you missed the PVS14 part of the post.
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