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Posted: 1/16/2007 4:21:52 PM EDT
| Does anyone know of somewhere to get bayonets other than the standard millitary design? I want one for my M4. Something new or interesting, perhaps something with some teeth or a serrated edge? Even if there is nothing mass produced, there has to be somebody with some custom stuff somewhere |
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http://www.jtknives.com/images/on3s.jpg Ontario Knife USMC Multi-Purpose Bayonet... |
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Frankly I've always thought that bayonets on a modern military rifle are a bit of an anachronism. I mean when did the US (or for that matter any other army) do their last bayonet charge? If you can't afford the time to change out a magazine and slap the bolt release because the enemy is coming over the hill in a human wave attack, fixing a bayonet probably won't do much good. I've seen programs on the Discovery channel and History (or is it Hitler) channel about the "Land Warrior" system. Each and every time it is shown, it shows a soldier with an M4 with a bunch of crap on it and A BAYONET on the front. How is the bayonet going to help out a high tech warrior? That being said, I like the OKC USMC bayonet and will probably get one when funds become available.... 
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I wish I could find that link of the news story of the Brits doing a bayonet charge on some insurgents setting up an IED on a roadside in Iraq. So, you are incorrect. |
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Nope, according to the article, IIRC, they just wanted to get hand-to-hand and dirty. One guy remarked that the insurgents thought they (the Brits) would just dig in on the other side of the road and get into a little fire fight and the insurgents could lay fire and retreat. So, instead the Brits decided to affix bayonets and kick ass. |
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The Brits DID a bayonet charge in 2003 in Basara(sp). The unit was/is the Fussilers(sp)(Black hat, white feather with red top). There was a big write up about it in the Stars and Stripes at the time. I was in the area after it. The Brits gave themselves a party As for the U.S.A. using the bayonet. Ask any MP working a camp. A bayonet can end the riot faster then a bullet. Also works for getting somebody out of the cage. Bayonet is just another tool to ad to the kit. ATB 
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The Royal Welsh Fussiliers? I've trained with some of them during an AT a few years ago. The 3rd. They are TA or Territorial Army, the equivalent ish, of our National Guard. The Brits also did a bayonet charge in the Falklands. And to get back on topic, If you really wanted something different you could have a knife made into one. You'd probably be able to find the ring and the rear mount easily enough, but finding a knife maker that would or could mount them to your knife, and make a new handle might be a problem. And a bit pricey as well I'm sure. It would be cool though, and almost certainly unique. |
+1 on crowd control. You go police a crowd, it is a lot easier to police them with bayonet attached. here is the link where the brits did a bayonet charge on the insurgents. heard they left dead bodies everywhere. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/18/nvc218.xml Cpl Mark Byles, 34, from Portsmouth, who is awarded the Military Cross, said: "The look on their faces was utter shock. They were under the impression we were going to lie in our ditch, shoot from a distance and they would run away. "I slashed people, rifle-butted them. I was punching and kicking. It was either me or them. It didn't seem real. Anybody can pull a trigger from a distance, but we got up close and personal." |
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Our last bayonet charges of any significance were in the Korean War. There was a batallion size charge by the 65th Infantry, a (mainly) Puerto Rican outfit that was operating under language difficulties - most of the Spanish speaking NCOs had been lost and were replacd by Anglos. The last charge was supposedly led by my last commander, Col. William "Wild Bill" Hamilton. He was a WWII grunt, a Korean War company CO at the time and supposedly did the last one of those "fix bayonets" things. It was successful so he got promoted, was awarded a medal and stayed in through the 70s. We were well trained to fight with bayonets. The bayonet is not something to use if you don't really have any training. I guess that one of the best little additions to anyone's defense portfolio would be modern Trench Gun, a pump shotgun with a bayonet mounted. I would prefer having a semi-auto, the Remington 11-87 to be specific. Put a bayonet on it and by God you would have a CQB weapon that would be very awesome. You just have to remember that a bayonet is a great trench and CQB weapon, but it has inside a home you have to wield it carefully, so as not to get hooked up on something. Bayonet fighting skills are good, because you learn to use the whole weapon - shoot, thrust, butt stroke. There are only two kinds of bayonet fighters .... the quick and the dead!  F |
| Bayonets are up close and personal. They're a great psychological tool and a good fiel d tool also. So yes they still have a use on the modern battlefield. Especially with CQB it can get nasty real quick. Watching one of your buddies getting spitted on the end of a bayonet will more than likely break your will to fight or it could just piss you off. Both have been documented since the bayonet first came into being. |
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I'd rather have a bayonet on a rifle when I ran out of ammunition than not. It's easier to snag a meal in the woods/kill a BG with a knife with leverage than a muzzle strike. ETA: Also, knives can be much deadlier than weapons at close range if the user can use one. |
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Psychology Today had a great piece on "The spirit of the bayonet" ten or so years ago. I don't remember the whole thing but it basically asked the same question as some here have...what use IS there on a high-tech battlefield for something as "Anachronistic" as a bayonet? They sited a number of studies of battles where well defended positions were overrun by bayonet charges when they (The defenders) should have prevailed over the attackers. It was a long-ass piece and they got pretty indepth with the case studies. What they concluded was: 1) Simply affixing the bayonet to the end of a rifle raised the troop's aggressiveness beyond that of those WITHOUT fixed bayonets (The guy with the bayonet suddenly thought he was Superman). 2) The bayonet fixed to the rifle seemed to trigger some sort of "ancient" human reaction to having a "Stick" with a knife on the end of it...."Cave-man mode" 3) While getting shot is an abstract to most people (Troops fear it but most have never experienced it) getting CUT isn't. The troops on the recieving end of a bayonet charge know very well (From cuts in the past) what'll happen if the "Charger" makes it to their position with that knife on the end of the "Stick" and their already high anxiety levels can be pushed to the breaking point (Where units break and flee) by the sight of of one (A bayonet charge). This is just the small bit that I remember but it was a pretty good read and made the case for retaining bayonets regardless if the troop had an M-16 or a ray-gun. 
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I suppose if I were issued an SA 80 / L85 rifle, I might want a bayonet too. From what I hear the deadliest feature on that rifle would be the bayonet. I understand that the Brits probably didn't want their rifles to malfunction in the heat of battle. I can also understand why they don't want the mainstream media to find out about this. If they went apeshit over a pyramid of naked terrorists at Abu Graib, think of what they would say about our soldiers bayonetting "innocent" terrorists |
No one knows more about how deadly knives can be at close range than a corrections officer. |
I remember reading something from the Korean war about some GI ramming his bayonet into an enemy so hard he had to fire his weapon into the enemy to remove the bayonet because it was stuck. That's BRUTAL! I see the need for a bayonet back when we were limited to a weapon with an 8 round en bloc clip, But now? They did teach us some basic bayonet fighting skills when I was in the service during the '80s. I somehow doubt they still teach it in the branch of service I was in (USAF). |
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Twonami: The front of the handguard is not supported like a regular handguard is. The main cause of breakage in military service of the FFs occur when they are dropped, and the front of the handguard strikes the ground or an object; since there is no handguard cap, the inside edge of handguard can deflect until it contacts the barrel, at which point it usually has cracked at the rear junction with the barrel nut (in just about any make/design). The same would apply in bayonet combat, as the weak hand grasps the handguard and exerts considerable force on it; once the bayonet contacts an obstruction, the handguard would begin to flex, prolly to failure. That is why the handguard caps on the Yankee Hill FFs are such a good idea (and I wonder why no other maker has anything similar)...there is enough room around the barrel apeture for the handguard to flex a bit, but not enough for it to fail. |
ok keyboard commando. this probably happened once and now you are preaching it. i am willing to bet if you get FF handguard 99.9999999% of the time the rifle will fall out of your hands before you break it. |
 Not mine but pic was originally posted by member Frens from Italy - Extrema Ratio Fulcrum Bayonet They're issued to the Italian army in Afghanistan and Iraq and very expensive. Ref: http://www.italianblade.com/bayonet.aspx  How about a Eickhorn Solingen M9 bayonet with sheath from DSG Arms? |
Keyboard Cmmando #1 to Keyboard Commando #2: FF handguards by KAC, LaRue, and DD are in the field, getting the abuse to be expected in combat, and a few of them have broken (guess where), as has been reported by company reps right here on this board. Everything breaks. FF are more fragile than non-FF. So pipe down. |
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I like both of them, and that Italian boayonet is *really* cool... Edit: MSRP: $489.00? WOW. you werent kidding!
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I think if you gripped the handguard at the rear, all would be well, since most of the lever force would be exerted in the smallest arc. I don't think using a VFG would work for bayonet drills. I think VFGs are much better for regular shooting though. |
| I read where a company of Marines in early Nam fixed Bayonets and charged up a heavy fortified hill .Alot of hand to hand combat took place in the trenches. I know this is small scale. But YES the Knife on the end of the rifle while small in useage,is STILL a valuable asset to the ground soldier. It's better to have it and never use it than to need it and don't have it. WarDawg |
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http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115640&highlight=DDC+Bayonet http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56429&highlight=DDC+Bayonet http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77192&d=1130473816 http://www.usualsuspect.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75515&highlight=DDC+Bayonet -Straight from what is perhaps the greatest knife/cutlery forum in the world. The USN (Usual Suspect Network) Bunch of great guys over there. IF you have problems viewing the above threads, then you NEED to register with the forum, because above is perhaps the GREATEST, most bad-assed bayonets for an AR known to man.... Price you might ask? Hold on to your seat fellas, these bad boys bring a premium of up to $1200 or so... |
More for the bayonet than for the rifle? 
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The M9 replaced the M7 for the M16 sometime in the 80's. It's just the newer model. We were still using (and breaking) the M7 in Basic in the early 90's. |
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