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Posted: 1/5/2003 12:46:24 AM EDT
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OK, here's the "dumb question of the day" (or week or month). Can you purchase or posses concussion or stun grenades? Looooong story short. Went paintballing (is that a word?). . . Set up in a fort. . . Paint grenade comes in and "paints" all of us. . . Big discussion on grenades. . . Bottom line, 4 guys say that concussion (stun) grenades are legal to own! (Sure, about 12 guys told them no, but hey, I've got to ask!) If so. . . I MUST HAVE SOME!!! Any input??? |
| They are considered a Destructive Device under the National Firearms Act, and most likely under your states laws as well. They can be owned by non-LE, but the transfer has to be approved by the ATF, and there is a $200 transfer tax per device. The fuse/reload, which generally consists of manually activated 1.5 second grenade fuse and 15 grams of flash powder is screwed into a metal, ported body which vents the detonation. . The bodies can be re-used 25 times, more if you are using training loads. Reloads are about $25 each. Distributors only sell to LE, as a general rule, but that is mainly for liability reasons; LE restricts their use to folks who have been trained in their use, and using them the wrong way can lead to nasty injuries (like hands blown off). Even using them the right way can lead to nasty injuries, as I have personally observed. |
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[blue]Wow! Well that settles the discusion. . . and then some. Thanks natez. Although, with that kind of pricing and the injury risk (not to mention the fact I really don't have a true use for them) I don't thinking I'll be looking to own them any time soon.[/blue] |
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Quoted: Do you have to pay the $200 tax on each reload ? Or just on the grenade bodies ? Just the reload. The body is about a 2-pound billet of steel, and run around $55 each. I don't know if you could get DefTech to sell them to you, but they do not count as a DD. Reloads come in cases of 24, and the ATF paperwork is typically per case. Each reload has its own serial number and a separate entry in the National Firearms Registry. Periodically, LEAs need to send ATF "destruction letters" stating which bangs they have expended in training or operations for that quarter/year or so. I am responsible for buying bangs, so I happen to know a little about them. |
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What's in the powder that produces the uber-white flash? I remember from Chemistry that magnesium has a very high color temperature, so I got to wonder if that's a component. Mind you, I'm not seeking a way of cooking my own FBGs, and if this information is the least bit sensitive I'll understand if your answer is "You don't need to know." |
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Quoted: What's in the powder that produces the uber-white flash? I remember from Chemistry that magnesium has a very high color temperature, so I got to wonder if that's a component. Mind you, I'm not seeking a way of cooking my own FBGs, and if this information is the least bit sensitive I'll understand if your answer is "You don't need to know." Well, I used to do some really stupid things back in the days when stupid things were allowed. You are correct. Magnesium (combined with black powder) can make an interestingly LOUD and BRIGHT "kaboom". Pyrotechnics have always been fascinating. |
| Natez is right. The Def-Tec No. 25's can be reloaded up to 25 times. Their are other manufactures who design different "Stun Grenades". The other that comes to mind is CTS which are one shot deals. I am a Chemical & Specialty Munitions" instructor for our department and the state. Only certified Law Enforcement agencies, Military, and corrections personnel can legally own these devices. The chemicals thatmake the flash & bang are a combination of Aluminum and magnesium. If you only new of the accidents that I have seen with these devices you would want tto treat these things like M67's. By the way, they are louder than the M67 Fragmentation grenade. As long as you are wearing Eye, ear, & nomex gloves you should be good to go. Jeez, loading Def-Tec's takes some special training to do. |
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[b]If I were a paintball field owner and caught you with/using any of these devices, I would get your name for liability suits, and kick you so far off my field you'd be playing in OH.[/b] Wow party crasher. (it would be stupid not to inform others as these devises will undoubtably cause hearing loss.) You probably got this idea from England (there it is or at least was legal to use FBangs in paintball in the 80's (I have a book about "paintball scirmishing" that shows this (and NV on paintball guns and all kinds of wierd stuff that UK'ers get into). |
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Quoted: If I were a paintball field owner and caught you with/using any of these devices, I would get your name for liability suits, and kick you so far off my field you'd be playing in OH. [blue]OK ? ? ? Is that OldTiger or Old[b]TIMER[b]? If you're going to flame someone get your sh*t straight! At no point did I, or anyone, say that they (flash bangs) were intended for use at a paintball field. Opinions are always welcome. . . but stupidity is rarely tolerated.[/blue] |
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