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Posted: 2/17/2021 12:45:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ounces equals pounds and pounds equals pain...this maxim is one I took away from AIT at Geiger back in the day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ounces equals pounds and pounds equals pain...this maxim is one I took away from AIT at Geiger back in the day. Truth and one of my dilemmas. It's one thing to run a leg of a 3-gun match, it's another to hump a rifle (even with a sling) for hours on end. I do distance backpacking and even thinking about extra ounces makes my back hurt. I like the extra value of a quality LPVO but I'm faster with a lighter RDS setup. Quoted: The force on force training I have done taught me one thing - it is more important not to get shot than to shoot the bad guy. Cover is everything. Survive first, win second. Anyone alive after the fighting starts has one thing burned into his soul ... COVER IS EVERYTHING. Therefore, your zero and ability to put rounds on small targets (feet, heads, and elbows sticking out) not fully behind cover is everything. Any "man sized targets" will be hauling ass to their next point of cover. The stand and deliver square range gun school training is not it. It may be fine for teaching the basics of gun handling. But, if you are exposed and not moving, you are dead. I know weight is less of a factor once the adrenalin kicks in, but there's a lot more value in tactics, training, and fitness than your rifle choice. Dynamic training is helpful, but force on force add that reality to your tactics. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 1:13:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No way I'd ditch the IR laser. That is very very much also worth its weight. Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 1:25:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No way I'd ditch the IR laser. That is very very much also worth its weight. Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. That's always been a question for me, would love to have NVG but other home priorities now, but unless you have oodles of batteries, seems like a limited use item. Mind you, I have no experience with NVG beyond my cheap handheld monocular. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. Depends on how much you use them and how many batteries you have. 40 hours per battery is a lot of time; a few dozen lithium batteries that have a 10-year shelf life isn't bad (assuming your not just roaming the countryside on foot and not planning on wearing them all night, every night). Add in some rechargeable batteries and while the voltage is a little lower as is the run time, I've been using AA Eneloop batteries for over a decade now and I can charge them with a solar panel. I think keeping them maintained and purged when needed is more of a concern than batteries. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. Well, the military has some PVS14's that are 10-20 years old, right? I don't see why they wouldn't last 10-20 years. L91 batteries will store for 20, so I'd just say "20-30" if you're willing to go through a few bad batteries to get a good one. Quoted: Depends on how much you use them and how many batteries you have. 40 hours per battery is a lot of time; a few dozen lithium batteries that have a 10-year shelf life isn't bad (assuming your not just roaming the countryside on foot and not planning on wearing them all night, every night). Add in some rechargeable batteries and while the voltage is a little lower as is the run time, I've been using AA Eneloop batteries for over a decade now and I can charge them with a solar panel. I think keeping them maintained and purged when needed is more of a concern than batteries. ROCK6 The military recommended L91 battery is rated to 90% capacity retention at the 20 year mark, I believe. You can obtain them at your local gas station/walmart/whatever |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 2:12:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I am a known hater of the ACOG and a huge proponent of the Razor 1-6. But when the decision has to do with a dead nuts, simple, rugged, lightweight, and efficient optic, an ACOG is a good choice. It has a serious lack of performance when compared to a modern LPVO, but if you are going to be carrying it around all day, the weight will be a big deal. I have taken both systems into combat, and I would still choose the Razor, but I can see why the ACOG is attractive.
The game changer will be the EOtech 5x magnifier, and if a red dot was able to have a simple BDC or vertical stadia lines visible when viewed from high magnification. That would be a badass system. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 2:20:05 PM EDT
[#7]
All this ID the threat is what is justifying magnafied optics, but the truth is... if you have something that is a threat at a distance, and think you need to ID it, to know if you should be engaging or not.... you all ready failed.
In a SHTF scenario, other folks are depending on you. So you will not be going all John Wick on every long distance threat. You need to be smart and fight when you want too, not when you have to. You should not be getting surprised at distance, which leaves close in, where a Red dot rules. If you have time to ID it thru magnification, then you have time to avoid it. Which really limits the need to have a magnafied optic on your cabine. What's that you say, you live out in West Texas or the front range and can see for miles... then you need more then 4x. And I was defending my home out in a wide open space... I would have some serious magnification along with night vision. on a cailber that does not start with 5.56 in it... |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 2:46:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Not so fast...
An optic does more than just give you PID. A good optic gives you a better sight picture on small body parts or objects that blend into the surrounding background. Any hunter knows that. PID can be urgent or not urgent. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 3:20:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. I don't know about modern NVG, but I had two of the AN/PVS-4. The first one I got died on me after about a year of using it. The tube would turn on, and it would work, but after about 5 minutes it would just fade to black. I called up this guy to fix it and he said he could buy the tube but he had these contract overrun L3 AN/PVS-4 he had for sale. I decided to take that instead. It had a new tube and everything redone on it. That was about 5 years ago and the optic still works but I know it's a limited life item. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 3:43:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys are making good points and we kind of dove into the fact that if you are walking around with a rifle there will be that guy with a high powered scope that shoots anyone armed (or not) but it all depends on scenarios I guess. If I'm scavenging for food it will be in my best interest to figure out the downsides of taking a rifle vs pistol at whatever particular moment. I definitely think we should all research the conflict in the mid 90s in those war torn countries Yugoslavia/Serbia being that this was the truest form of SHTF in today's type of setting. That said I'd say whatever you are best with at that time is best along with durability. Having magnification is probably really good for holding down a particular area but a RDS will always have its advantages. The lpvo is probably the most ideal choice in theory. I will be getting time under an Acog finally and have a couple more optics I will be researching so I can't really say what I'd prefer but right now I'm grabbing my RDS set up if things popped off as I type. In the truest SHTF situation where everyone is left to fend for themselves like in war-torn countries, you're absolutely right. Someone could easily ID your gear and plot how they're going to take it. You won't even know this. You could just be looking for food or just working around and someone could watch from afar and determine what sort of things are worth taking from you. A sniper could wait in various areas where they can easily take out even the mightiest, most well trained person without them ever knowing or hearing the shot. Maintaining the smallest profile is the best bet and this is going to require everything. I think having a better escape tactic would be ideal in a true SHTF situation where you don't even have to use your weapon unless you have the first drop on the target. That means making yourself look like you have nothing worth taking. This could mean not even having an AR type weapon or hiding it in such a way you can easily access it should someone come around. I think oftentimes in post-apocalyptic films or stories, they often show people presenting themselves and giving the protagonist an opportunity to easily escape or kill the person. Sort of like how when Joker captures Batman, he puts him in these complex death devices that look harmful but easy to escape from. Or like in that movie with Denzel Washington and the bible, they wouldn't be talking or surrounding him to take what they want. Real life, you'll run outside with your fancy new AR with ACOG or whatnot and someone sees that and they really want it over theirs, and they know you got to sleep someday. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 4:29:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am a known hater of the ACOG and a huge proponent of the Razor 1-6. But when the decision has to do with a dead nuts, simple, rugged, lightweight, and efficient optic, an ACOG is a good choice. It has a serious lack of performance when compared to a modern LPVO, but if you are going to be carrying it around all day, the weight will be a big deal. I have taken both systems into combat, and I would still choose the Razor, but I can see why the ACOG is attractive. The game changer will be the EOtech 5x magnifier, and if a red dot was able to have a simple BDC or vertical stadia lines visible when viewed from high magnification. That would be a badass system. I'm a LPVO guy for damn near everything these days. But the weight does add up. My p4xi's and G3 Razors are in the 17-22 oz range w/o mount. I'm looking to grab a TA33 and piggy back an RMR on there for a good SHTF light weight setup around 10-11 oz's. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 4:37:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My son is USMC. He came home after TBS and I handed him my AR15 with my new Razor HD 1-6 (25oz version). He laughed and said, “It’s so light!”. He had just finished a 16 mile march with pack, body armor, helmet, M16, AND the M249. He carried the M16 slung over his back. I think people complain a little too much about how heavy a LPVO is on this board. I do about 25 presentations from low ready a day with my Razor equipped rifle. It doesn’t feel heavy at all to me. I realize we are not all 25 years old. But, I would love to know how many people complaining about LPVOs are lifting weights and running 5 days a week? I think it's just mantra that gets repeated. RDS are indisputably lighter. Is a LPVO too heavy? I don't think so personally but that's just my opinion. A quality sling ameliorates a lot of the downside of a heavier rifle. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 4:39:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not logic, it's physics. I never once advocated for any one choice or action, just outlined the physics of the situation. You pick what you're willing to contend with, based on the capability it gives you. Physically moving the rifle is just one part of the equation. You can only shoot as fast as you can see. That includes resolving the target within the optic. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 4:53:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's always been a question for me, would love to have NVG but other home priorities now, but unless you have oodles of batteries, seems like a limited use item. Mind you, I have no experience with NVG beyond my cheap handheld monocular. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No way I'd ditch the IR laser. That is very very much also worth its weight. Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. That's always been a question for me, would love to have NVG but other home priorities now, but unless you have oodles of batteries, seems like a limited use item. Mind you, I have no experience with NVG beyond my cheap handheld monocular. NODs last a long time with a battery. Thermal on the other hand... |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 4:56:39 PM EDT
[#15]
I just upgraded my ACOG to a Crimson Trace LPVO.
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Posted: 2/17/2021 5:17:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No way I'd ditch the IR laser. That is very very much also worth its weight. Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. As long as I have batteries.....and I have a lot of batteries. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 8:37:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Weapons are only one small component of maintaining a good defensive posture. You see a lot of guys on the range and in courses who are pushing 300+ lbs. and sucking wind hard after an hour or two. Add fatigue, stress, hunger, thirst, and general discomfort to the picture (even trivial things like not showering in a week) and a tricked out AR with $3000 optics becomes irrelevant.
Lighter will always be preferable, but even a light weapon is ineffective without physical conditioning. The impact of a few extra ounces can be reduced and minimized. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Never leave home without them.
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Posted: 2/17/2021 9:47:38 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm an Aimpoint (currently Comp M) and ACOG kinda guy.
I've found that the red dot, for me, is much faster on target inside of 50-75yds. The ACOG seems to draw about even at that point and excels past that. Im in the Midwest. We're broken up into towns that are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland. You can see/shoot across bean fields during the summer, you can't across corn fields. Winter? If you're out of town, you can see for 10-15mi. All depends on your area. I would prefer the Aimpoint (and do for home defense), but we have so much open space, that I have an ACOG on my EOTWAWKI rifle. I've been out of the AR money pit game for about 14yrs and have just now started getting back into it. I have no desire for flip over magnifiers, micro-red dots, or real heavy lvpo's, personally speaking. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 10:51:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. How long do you think our NVG's will work in SHTF? Honest question. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:02:32 AM EDT
[#21]
So, the answer is a (QD) 1x prism (that hopefully also has NV settings), with a (QD) flip magnifier (that can also be used as a monocular because pointing guns around in the apocalypse is bad manners and manners make the Mad Max) and maybe irons if there's room left.
Prism takes care of crappy eyes, total battery failure, could use rechargable batteries and is 1x so covers up close as well as a red dot. Flip magnifier can be mounted or stored on one's person and used as a monocular and gives one ranged target identification. Irons if you can. Can everybody agree to argue over this being the outcome? |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:28:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the answer is a (QD) 1x prism (that hopefully also has NV settings), with a (QD) flip magnifier (that can also be used as a monocular because pointing guns around in the apocalypse is bad manners and manners make the Mad Max) and maybe irons if there's room left. Prism takes care of crappy eyes, total battery failure, could use rechargable batteries and is 1x so covers up close as well as a red dot. Flip magnifier can be mounted or stored on one's person and used as a monocular and gives one ranged target identification. Irons if you can. Can everybody agree to argue over this being the outcome? No  Can you even use a magnifier behind a prism? I'm not an optical engineer, but I've never seen it done and would think combining the two optics each with their own eye relief would cause issues. Interesting idea if possible, but still at 20oz for the pair vs 24oz for the NX8 in a G mount, and I'd trust the NF way more. I also don't believe batteries would be unobtainium for 20+ years post SHTF; in order for that to be the case not only would no new manufacturing base have arisen in the US, but there would either have to be no manufacturing base in the world, or no trade with what there was. But that does bring in the possibility of any of the AA or AAA powered optics running off rechargeables, while (as far as I know) there aren't any rechargeable CR2032/2025/1632s. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:00:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Can you even use a magnifier behind a prism? I'm not an optical engineer, but I've never seen it done and would think combining the two optics each with their own eye relief would cause issues. Interesting idea if possible, but still at 20oz for the pair vs 24oz for the NX8 in a G mount, and I'd trust the NF way more. I also don't believe batteries would be unobtainium for 20+ years post SHTF; in order for that to be the case not only would no new manufacturing base have arisen in the US, but there would either have to be no manufacturing base in the world, or no trade with what there was. But that does bring in the possibility of any of the AA or AAA powered optics running off rechargeables, while (as far as I know) there aren't any rechargeable CR2032/2025/1632s. Magnifiers can be used behind 1x prisms, has been done since 2016.  How to make the Vortex Magnifier work with the SPITFIRE! New 1x prisms coming out are about 7 ounces and a vortex micro 3x magnifier is also listed as about 7 ounces so about 14 ounce total. A .ore powerful magnifier will weigh more accordingly, so say the new Eotech G45 is what you want for the 5x, it's about 12.8 ounces, so whole setup would be about 19.8 ounces. But, you have the option of removing the magnifier. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:37:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Magnifiers can be used behind 1x prisms has been done since 2016.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdljEU6u35YNew 1x prisms coming out are about 7 ounces and a vortex micro 3x magnifier is also listed as about 7 ounces so about 14 ounce total. A .ore powerful magnifier will weigh more accordingly, so say the new Eotech G45 is what you want for the 5x, it's about 12.8 ounces, so whole setup would be about 19.8 ounces. But, you have the option of removing the magnifier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No Can you even use a magnifier behind a prism? I'm not an optical engineer, but I've never seen it done and would think combining the two optics each with their own eye relief would cause issues. Interesting idea if possible, but still at 20oz for the pair vs 24oz for the NX8 in a G mount, and I'd trust the NF way more. I also don't believe batteries would be unobtainium for 20+ years post SHTF; in order for that to be the case not only would no new manufacturing base have arisen in the US, but there would either have to be no manufacturing base in the world, or no trade with what there was. But that does bring in the possibility of any of the AA or AAA powered optics running off rechargeables, while (as far as I know) there aren't any rechargeable CR2032/2025/1632s. Magnifiers can be used behind 1x prisms has been done since 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdljEU6u35YNew 1x prisms coming out are about 7 ounces and a vortex micro 3x magnifier is also listed as about 7 ounces so about 14 ounce total. A .ore powerful magnifier will weigh more accordingly, so say the new Eotech G45 is what you want for the 5x, it's about 12.8 ounces, so whole setup would be about 19.8 ounces. But, you have the option of removing the magnifier. Prisms and Magnifiers need mounts. Those carry weight. Your system is now 35%+ greater weight than 14 ounces. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:44:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prisms and Magnifiers need mounts. Those carry weight. Your system is now 35%+ greater weight than 14 ounces. I don't see where the listed weights are for the optics only as they all inlcude mounts. Perhaps I missed it(them)? ETA: I'm using the listed weight for Primary Arms' new 1x prism in their 2021 catalogue, the only listed weight I can find everywhere for the vortex micro 3x, and Eotech does specify that the g45's 12.8 ounces includes the mount. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#26]
You guys have some wild ideas about SHTF and weapon weight. I don't see the complete loss of all vehicles (cars, trucks, sxs, atv, etc) and me having to carry a rifle for more than 5 to 10 miles in SHTF which a 7lbs or 10 lbs. rifle isn't going to make a much of a difference at those distances besides a slight annoyance . If you have to walk 50 to 100+ miles than every single piece of gear will be stripped down to save weight but Ill cross that unlikely bridge when I come to it.
I've shot 2 gun matches, sat on ambushes, observed people in OP's, cleared buildings, carried weapons in the desert, mountains and woods in all weather conditions. My choice without a doubt is a 1-6x LVPO. They just bridge the gap of a multiple role optic the best and is well worth their weight. Red dots are awesome up close but not so awesome when you have to shoot a small target that's taking cover and trying to not get shot. Acogs are awesome at mid range and have good FOV but I was never a fan of the bindon aiming concept up close and I like having a little more power. LVPO aren't as fast for some as red dots but are pretty damn close and to be able to dial up to make difficult shots is an awesome feature to have. I'm not a big fan of using your rifle optic as you primary PID tool though it can work in a pinch but you should be using a something far more powerful at a distance far greater than a 4x or 6x is capable of. Theirs a difference between getting ID of someone or PID of someone that you want to kill. I want to get PID of someone at such a large distance I wont be spotted and I have enough maneuver space to setup an ambush or break visual contact if I have to. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 11:44:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I also don't believe batteries would be unobtainium for 20+ years post SHTF; in order for that to be the case not only would no new manufacturing base have arisen in the US, but there would either have to be no manufacturing base in the world, or no trade with what there was. But that does bring in the possibility of any of the AA or AAA powered optics running off rechargeables, while (as far as I know) there aren't any rechargeable CR2032/2025/1632s. Nah not just batteries, though those are a concern (also beware buying L91 Energizers from amazon) -- more general sustainment. Wearing nods on a helmet all day everyday or even just banging around every night, how long are they going to make it before dying from use/abuse? There's no logistics train to repair/replace them. Are we leaving them at base/camp/home until we need to pull patrol/defense or something and treating them gently? Or are they being shared by everyone pulling guard duty in your family/home/camp because "it's the only NVG's we have?" Just real world abuse, how long are these babies going to last? As critical as the NVG capability is, I also worry it won't be around long -- and if you can keep it sustained and operational, you're the one-eyed king. But people always underestimate logistics! |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:07:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (also beware buying L91 Energizers from amazon) Sorry, why? |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:08:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah not just batteries, though those are a concern (also beware buying L91 Energizers from amazon) -- more general sustainment. Wearing nods on a helmet all day everyday or even just banging around every night, how long are they going to make it before dying from use/abuse? There's no logistics train to repair/replace them. Are we leaving them at base/camp/home until we need to pull patrol/defense or something and treating them gently? Or are they being shared by everyone pulling guard duty in your family/home/camp because "it's the only NVG's we have?" Just real world abuse, how long are these babies going to last? As critical as the NVG capability is, I also worry it won't be around long -- and if you can keep it sustained and operational, you're the one-eyed king. But people always underestimate logistics! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I also don't believe batteries would be unobtainium for 20+ years post SHTF; in order for that to be the case not only would no new manufacturing base have arisen in the US, but there would either have to be no manufacturing base in the world, or no trade with what there was. But that does bring in the possibility of any of the AA or AAA powered optics running off rechargeables, while (as far as I know) there aren't any rechargeable CR2032/2025/1632s. Nah not just batteries, though those are a concern (also beware buying L91 Energizers from amazon) -- more general sustainment. Wearing nods on a helmet all day everyday or even just banging around every night, how long are they going to make it before dying from use/abuse? There's no logistics train to repair/replace them. Are we leaving them at base/camp/home until we need to pull patrol/defense or something and treating them gently? Or are they being shared by everyone pulling guard duty in your family/home/camp because "it's the only NVG's we have?" Just real world abuse, how long are these babies going to last? As critical as the NVG capability is, I also worry it won't be around long -- and if you can keep it sustained and operational, you're the one-eyed king. But people always underestimate logistics! Good NODs are pretty tough and last many hours on a single AA battery. Good thermal is pretty tough (most are a polymer housing but Trijicon uses aluminum which I prefer) and have atrocious battery lives which can be hedged through other options, settings, or features. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:11:52 PM EDT
[#30]
In a true SHTF scenario, your goal is to survive the initial chaos and mayhem. If you make it to the 3 month mark, you will be living in a different world.
Selco, in his book about the Bosnian SHTF crisis of the 90's explains that everyone can adapt to new realities. The real danger is in the transition to the new reality. Read that last sentence again. Most people don't do well during this phase because they refuse to accept the new reality and hang onto the old world that is now gone. This is where people die. We saw this during the initial phase of Covid. I told people it was coming in late January. I had food, N95 masks, and supplies. I told friends to do the same. They looked at me like I was crazy. 99% of these people were slow to adapt. Most finally accepted it in April / May. Admittedly, Covid is largely overblown hype. But, we didn't know that then. Just think if this was something truly deadly. Slow adapters would have died. You can see the same slow adapting mental problem now. In March / April 2020, we didn't know what this crisis would bring. There was some evidence from the cruise ships of asymptomatic transmission. The prudent decision, until new data appeared, was to wear a mask. Few did. Fast forward to now - it is obvious that the mask is useless. YET, mask wearing is at an all time HIGH. There is no asymptomatic spread. The survival rate is 99.7%. The "case numbers" are exaggerated by over 10x by faulty PCR testing. The death rates are exaggerated. And, just like in early 2020, people are not adapting to the new reality. Slow adapters die in a serious SHTF. Aim to survive the adaptation phase. I have 20 lithium batteries for my PVS14. That should be good. After that, I can get more from houses with all the dead people in them. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:26:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a true SHTF scenario, your goal is to survive the initial chaos and mayhem. If you make it to the 3 month mark, you will be living in a different world. Selco, in his book about the Bosnian SHTF crisis of the 90's explains that everyone can adapt to new realities. The real danger is in the transition to the new reality. Read that last sentence again. Most people don't do well during this phase because they refuse to accept the new reality and hang onto the old world that is now gone. This is where people die. We saw this during the initial phase of Covid. I told people it was coming in late January. I had food, N95 masks, and supplies. I told friends to do the same. They looked at me like I was crazy. 99% of these people were slow to adapt. Most finally accepted it in April / May. Admittedly, Covid is largely overblown hype. But, we didn't know that then. Just think if this was something truly deadly. Slow adapters would have died. You can see the same slow adapting mental problem now. In March / April 2020, we didn't know what this crisis would bring. There was some evidence from the cruise ships of asymptomatic transmission. The prudent decision, until new data appeared, was to wear a mask. Few did. Fast forward to now - it is obvious that the mask is useless. YET, mask wearing is at an all time HIGH. There is no asymptomatic spread. The survival rate is 99.7%. The "case numbers" are exaggerated by over 10x by faulty PCR testing. The death rates are exaggerated. And, just like in early 2020, people are not adapting to the new reality. Slow adapters die in a serious SHTF. Aim to survive the adaptation phase. I have 20 lithium batteries for my PVS14. That should be good. After that, I can get more from houses with all the dead people in them. Be sure to wear a mask around the dead bodies. The thread is morphing into an insightful survival discussion as optic of choice is so contextually based. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:08:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry, why? Check the reviews -- lots of reported fakes that aren't lasting as long as they should, etc. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 9:51:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am a known hater of the ACOG and a huge proponent of the Razor 1-6. But when the decision has to do with a dead nuts, simple, rugged, lightweight, and efficient optic, an ACOG is a good choice. It has a serious lack of performance when compared to a modern LPVO, but if you are going to be carrying it around all day, the weight will be a big deal. I have taken both systems into combat, and I would still choose the Razor, but I can see why the ACOG is attractive. The game changer will be the EOtech 5x magnifier, and if a red dot was able to have a simple BDC or vertical stadia lines visible when viewed from high magnification. That would be a badass system. I don't trust the Razor, but I'd put an NX8 up against an ACOG. The most bomb-proof LPVO on the planet though, IMO, is the NXS 1-4 with the mil-spec assembly process. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 10:11:43 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 2/18/2021 10:50:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryNow that was eye opening....Thanks for posting. |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 12:39:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryAll four parts of that series are good |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 1:04:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Had an IM regarding this, but I can't seem to attach pictures to IMs, so . . .
RMR piggybacked on an NX8 in a Geissele mount via Reptillia mount:  Attached FilePotato pic through the RMR with a decent representation of how much of the window is obscured by the elevation cap:  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 1:20:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see where the listed weights are for the optics only as they all inlcude mounts. Perhaps I missed it(them)? ETA: I'm using the listed weight for Primary Arms' new 1x prism in their 2021 catalogue, the only listed weight I can find everywhere for the vortex micro 3x, and Eotech does specify that the g45's 12.8 ounces includes the mount. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Prisms and Magnifiers need mounts. Those carry weight. Your system is now 35%+ greater weight than 14 ounces. I don't see where the listed weights are for the optics only as they all inlcude mounts. Perhaps I missed it(them)? ETA: I'm using the listed weight for Primary Arms' new 1x prism in their 2021 catalogue, the only listed weight I can find everywhere for the vortex micro 3x, and Eotech does specify that the g45's 12.8 ounces includes the mount. Interesting. I may have to try that some day. And yeah, that's a lot lighter than my set up above (27oz between both optics and the mounts). |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 4:05:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had an IM regarding this, but I can't seem to attach pictures to IMs, so . . . RMR piggybacked on an NX8 in a Geissele mount via Reptillia mount: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177960/Screenshot_20210213-203045_png-1833505.JPG Potato pic through the RMR with a decent representation of how much of the window is obscured by the elevation cap: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177960/Screenshot_20210213-125230_png-1833501.JPG You can also add one or two of the RMR spacers from Reptilia to get the RMR up over the turret.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 4:13:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Are Reptilia RMR mounts universal to all LPVO ringed mounts?
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Posted: 2/20/2021 4:17:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are Reptilia RMR mounts universal to LPVO ringed mounts? Only for G mounts last I checked. I believe Badger is coming out with something similar for their C1 mounts. |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 4:49:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can also add one or two of the RMR spacers from Reptilia to get the RMR up over the turret. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/294984/A932B787-C501-484D-8B26-43A22DAED7E8_jpe-1833778.JPG What scope is that in the bottom pic? NXS 1-4? |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 5:26:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What scope is that in the bottom pic? NXS 1-4? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can also add one or two of the RMR spacers from Reptilia to get the RMR up over the turret. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/294984/A932B787-C501-484D-8B26-43A22DAED7E8_jpe-1833778.JPG What scope is that in the bottom pic? NXS 1-4? NX8 1-8x |
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Posted: 3/21/2021 10:30:52 PM EDT
[#44]
ELCAN.
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Posted: 3/21/2021 10:41:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the truest SHTF situation where everyone is left to fend for themselves like in war-torn countries, you're absolutely right. Someone could easily ID your gear and plot how they're going to take it. You won't even know this. You could just be looking for food or just working around and someone could watch from afar and determine what sort of things are worth taking from you. A sniper could wait in various areas where they can easily take out even the mightiest, most well trained person without them ever knowing or hearing the shot. Maintaining the smallest profile is the best bet and this is going to require everything. I think having a better escape tactic would be ideal in a true SHTF situation where you don't even have to use your weapon unless you have the first drop on the target. That means making yourself look like you have nothing worth taking. This could mean not even having an AR type weapon or hiding it in such a way you can easily access it should someone come around. I think oftentimes in post-apocalyptic films or stories, they often show people presenting themselves and giving the protagonist an opportunity to easily escape or kill the person. Sort of like how when Joker captures Batman, he puts him in these complex death devices that look harmful but easy to escape from. Or like in that movie with Denzel Washington and the bible, they wouldn't be talking or surrounding him to take what they want. Real life, you'll run outside with your fancy new AR with ACOG or whatnot and someone sees that and they really want it over theirs, and they know you got to sleep someday. 
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Posted: 3/22/2021 5:42:39 PM EDT
[#46]
A1,A2 ,A2carry handle, LMT or cut down carry handle, aimpoint or eotech with doubles and QD so you can scavenge batteries and remove when optic dies and can't fine anymore batteries
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Posted: 3/22/2021 8:02:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Nvrmnd.
This shit is getting weird enough...... |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 10:27:31 PM EDT
[#48]
how about the Trijicon TR25? watched the new 1911 Syndicate video drop. always wanted the TR25 for the duel lighting effect
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Posted: 3/23/2021 8:18:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm an Aimpoint (currently Comp M) and ACOG kinda guy. I've found that the red dot, for me, is much faster on target inside of 50-75yds. The ACOG seems to draw about even at that point and excels past that. Im in the Midwest. We're broken up into towns that are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland. You can see/shoot across bean fields during the summer, you can't across corn fields. Winter? If you're out of town, you can see for 10-15mi. All depends on your area. I would prefer the Aimpoint (and do for home defense), but we have so much open space, that I have an ACOG on my EOTWAWKI rifle. I've been out of the AR money pit game for about 14yrs and have just now started getting back into it. I have no desire for flip over magnifiers, micro-red dots, or real heavy lvpo's, personally speaking. I have since traded into an LPVO, researched until my eyes hurt, tested them out at every shop I've been in, and have plans for them on 2 new builds and am thinking of replacing my ACOG's on 2 other builds. Im still not 110% sure they're a cure all, especially when transitioning from short-long or long-short and fumbling with a throw lever, but there are options to cover that (dot on top/side or on a 45* mount). After watching many YouTube vids of people on the clock beating Aimpoints and EoTech's at 5-25yds (AND finally getting my hands on a mid-range quality one to look through), I understand it. I'm still slightly skeptical because you have to cough up a pile of cash to get to a quality level most would consider combat tough, but I believe they are a solid option. I'm at least going to put my money where my mouth is and give it the ol college try. |
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Posted: 3/24/2021 12:02:19 PM EDT
[#50]
I like the ACOG with a RMR on top, saves a little weight, has magnification, and has a real red dot, at least for SBRs. I would not use the ACOG alone.
I would like a red dot with a real reticle with subtensions from someone besides Holosun, but there seems to be no interest in that from the major companies. I use LPVOs on non-SBRs where I value saving weight less.I also put RMRs on top of LPVOs, for use with NV. I have enough batteries/rechargeables for use with NV to outlast myself if something happens. |
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