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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:49:04 AM EDT
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Application;
Flat top AR15, 16" barrel with 13" Geissele mk2 rail. Will be Lower 1/3 Co witness with an Aimpoint T2 on a KAC #25682 mount. I can't make up my mind between HK or M4 style front sites, Dioptic or round rear, or if I should add tritium. Might get a little "busy" in the site picture with Tritium? Prefer folding sites. Not sure Troy's political issues are a real hang up for me... but I sure like their products. Thanks! |
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I'm in the same boat right now. Trying to decide which BUIS to run with a T2 on a M4v11. My gut is telling me throw on another set of Troys, just like the rest of my ARs, but some are trying to convince me to run fixed DD's instead. I would, and probably will, go with the Troys.
Hey OP, have you considered going the fixed sight route since they won't interfere with a Aimpoint? |
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I'm in the same boat right now. Trying to decide which BUIS to run with a T2 on a M4v11. My gut is telling me throw on another set of Troys, just like the rest of my ARs, but some are trying to convince me to run fixed DD's instead. I would, and probably will, go with the Troys. Hey OP, have you considered going the fixed sight route since they won't interfere with a Aimpoint? I have, and really like the DD's, and actually don't mind having them fixed but always like the diversity of folding. Good point on the never needing the irons. Maybe I'll just stick with Bobro really like those and the Rainier's BUIS...both out of stock of course. 
They are Troy...but these might be the way to go. Any opinions on M4 vs HK front sites? |
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Fixed: DD 1.5 Rear and Rail Mount Fixed Front
Flip: MBUS Pro The HK style front is great with just irons but it adds a noisy complexity through a T1 for me. The circular nature causes a "ghosting" effect at foot-speed. Maybe it's just me. The MBUS or DD are more vertical in nature and don't exhibit the same conflict. I'd skip the tritium post with a RDS. "Busy" is a good word. |
I've got a similar setup to what you have and I went with the MBus Pro. Very low profile and easy to adjust, made of steel, they don't lock up or down so if you drop the rifle hopefully they will just fold back down, etc. Oh and they are pretty reasonably priced. I think I paid a little more that $150 for the set.
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Quoted: I can't make up my mind between HK or M4 style front sites, Dioptic or round rear, or if I should add tritium. Might get a little "busy" in the site picture with Tritium? I've had HK and M4 front sights and dioptic and round rear sights. I strongly prefer the M4 front with round non-tritium rears. HK style sights with round hoods were originally designed for fixed front sights where the rear sight adjusts the elevation. The tip of the front sight would always be in the center of the circle, so the POI would still be POA if you centered the front circle in the rear aperture. However, ARs use the front sight post to adjust elevation, so the tip of the front sight will not likely be centered in the circle. Therefore, if you try to naturally center the front circle in the rear aperture then your POI will be off. Likewise, when you get proper sight alignment, the front circle will be off center from the rear aperture. You basically end up with two competing sight pictures, and only one of them is correct. The diopter rear aperture is personal preference. I prefer the sight picture with a round aperture, but I've met some great shooters who preferred the diopter. Tritium on the rear sight will only distract you since they will appear brighter than the front sight and will be too close for your eye to focus on and align. ETA: I actually prefer fixed front and rear BUIS when using a RDO with lower 1/3 cowitness. They don't distract me at all when using the RDO, and they're right there ready to go if I need them. I use DD front and DD or Larue rears. Here's an example of what I use:   |
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Take a look at GG&G I really like them. Great quality and made in the U.S.A.
http://www.gggaz.com/ar-spring-actuated-front-and-rear-sight-packages.html |
| You can pay a lot more, but none of the other sights you're considering will work any better than the Magpul MBUS Gen 2 sights. They are probably the strongest on the market. The only real downside to them is that they are a bit bulky, if you are trying to fit the rear under a low mounted scope or something. Other than that, there is no reason to go with anything else unless you need adjustable elevation or something. |
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You can pay a lot more, but none of the other sights you're considering will work any better than the Magpul MBUS Gen 2 sights. They are probably the strongest on the market. The only real downside to them is that they are a bit bulky, if you are trying to fit the rear under a low mounted scope or something. Other than that, there is no reason to go with anything else unless you need adjustable elevation or something. Well-said, sir! The MBUS Gen 2 is one tough sight, perhaps the toughest on the market. I ran them for years and only went to the Pro version because of scope clearance issues with a particular scope. One of the reasons both the MBUS Gen 2 and the MBUS Pro are so rugged is that they do not lock in the up position when deployed. They are able to deflect downward when struck, deflecting and rreducing the energy of the blow rather than having to absorb the force.. KAC also wisely offers back up sights that do this, but at a much higher price. |
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I've had HK and M4 front sights and dioptic and round rear sights. I strongly prefer the M4 front with round non-tritium rears. HK style sights with round hoods were originally designed for fixed front sights where the rear sight adjusts the elevation. The tip of the front sight would always be in the center of the circle, so the POI would still be POA if you centered the front circle in the rear aperture. However, ARs use the front sight post to adjust elevation, so the tip of the front sight will not likely be centered in the circle. Therefore, if you try to naturally center the front circle in the rear aperture then your POI will be off. Likewise, when you get proper sight alignment, the front circle will be off center from the rear aperture. You basically end up with two competing sight pictures, and only one of them is correct. The diopter rear aperture is personal preference. I prefer the sight picture with a round aperture, but I've met some great shooters who preferred the diopter. Tritium on the rear sight will only distract you since they will appear brighter than the front sight and will be too close for your eye to focus on and align. ETA: I actually prefer fixed front and rear BUIS when using a RDO with lower 1/3 cowitness. They don't distract me at all when using the RDO, and they're right there ready to go if I need them. I use DD front and DD or Larue rears. Here's an example of what I use: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/ARs/BCM_M4A1_01_web.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/cowitness_lower.jpg Quoted:
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I can't make up my mind between HK or M4 style front sites, Dioptic or round rear, or if I should add tritium. Might get a little "busy" in the site picture with Tritium? I've had HK and M4 front sights and dioptic and round rear sights. I strongly prefer the M4 front with round non-tritium rears. HK style sights with round hoods were originally designed for fixed front sights where the rear sight adjusts the elevation. The tip of the front sight would always be in the center of the circle, so the POI would still be POA if you centered the front circle in the rear aperture. However, ARs use the front sight post to adjust elevation, so the tip of the front sight will not likely be centered in the circle. Therefore, if you try to naturally center the front circle in the rear aperture then your POI will be off. Likewise, when you get proper sight alignment, the front circle will be off center from the rear aperture. You basically end up with two competing sight pictures, and only one of them is correct. The diopter rear aperture is personal preference. I prefer the sight picture with a round aperture, but I've met some great shooters who preferred the diopter. Tritium on the rear sight will only distract you since they will appear brighter than the front sight and will be too close for your eye to focus on and align. ETA: I actually prefer fixed front and rear BUIS when using a RDO with lower 1/3 cowitness. They don't distract me at all when using the RDO, and they're right there ready to go if I need them. I use DD front and DD or Larue rears. Here's an example of what I use: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/ARs/BCM_M4A1_01_web.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/cowitness_lower.jpg This is exactly correct, you don't want hk style sights unless they're actual hk takeoffs. If you have to move the front post, it's a bad setup. HK does all the adjustments with the rear sight only. My ultimate iron sight AR combo is DD fixed front with KAC 200-600m rear. |
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This is exactly correct, you don't want hk style sights unless they're actual hk takeoffs. If you have to move the front post, it's a bad setup. HK does all the adjustments with the rear sight only. My ultimate iron sight AR combo is DD fixed front with KAC 200-600m rear. Quoted:
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I can't make up my mind between HK or M4 style front sites, Dioptic or round rear, or if I should add tritium. Might get a little "busy" in the site picture with Tritium? I've had HK and M4 front sights and dioptic and round rear sights. I strongly prefer the M4 front with round non-tritium rears. HK style sights with round hoods were originally designed for fixed front sights where the rear sight adjusts the elevation. The tip of the front sight would always be in the center of the circle, so the POI would still be POA if you centered the front circle in the rear aperture. However, ARs use the front sight post to adjust elevation, so the tip of the front sight will not likely be centered in the circle. Therefore, if you try to naturally center the front circle in the rear aperture then your POI will be off. Likewise, when you get proper sight alignment, the front circle will be off center from the rear aperture. You basically end up with two competing sight pictures, and only one of them is correct. The diopter rear aperture is personal preference. I prefer the sight picture with a round aperture, but I've met some great shooters who preferred the diopter. Tritium on the rear sight will only distract you since they will appear brighter than the front sight and will be too close for your eye to focus on and align. ETA: I actually prefer fixed front and rear BUIS when using a RDO with lower 1/3 cowitness. They don't distract me at all when using the RDO, and they're right there ready to go if I need them. I use DD front and DD or Larue rears. Here's an example of what I use: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/ARs/BCM_M4A1_01_web.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/cowitness_lower.jpg This is exactly correct, you don't want hk style sights unless they're actual hk takeoffs. If you have to move the front post, it's a bad setup. HK does all the adjustments with the rear sight only. My ultimate iron sight AR combo is DD fixed front with KAC 200-600m rear. Isn't the point of the KAC micro to be paired with the thinner front post of the KAC front sight? |
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You can pay a lot more, but none of the other sights you're considering will work any better than the Magpul MBUS Gen 2 sights. They are probably the strongest on the market. The only real downside to them is that they are a bit bulky, if you are trying to fit the rear under a low mounted scope or something. Other than that, there is no reason to go with anything else unless you need adjustable elevation or something. This. And the "plastic" MBUS have been demonstrated to be more durable and hold zero better than their AL competitors in drop tests. For an item that will spend 99% of it's life folded down anyway, MBUS cannot be beat for value, durability and weight. |
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I hadn't really considered Magpul for BUIS but I own many of their other products. Sounds like bang for the buck I can't go wrong with a set and for the next budget build that will likely be the way I go.
But for this build I think I might go with DD, M4 style front and round non tritium rears. Now just need to make up my mind about fixed vs folding Starting to lean toward fixed...
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Does DD even make folding sights? I thought they just had their fixed. I have their rear on one of my rifles. http://s17.postimg.org/hlf9z2krj/image.jpg They do not as far as I know... if I go fixed I'll run DD. Folding I'll either go KAC or Troy since Rainier and Bobro are out of stock. |
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Anyone running fixed front and a folding rear? Quoted:
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I've used MBUS G2, MBUS Pro, Troy flip ups, KAC and DD fixed. If I run a magnified optic, I prefer the MBUS Pro. If I run an RDS, like my T2/LT660, I prefer the DD fixed. Anyone running fixed front and a folding rear? Yes A2 sight base fixed front, it works. |
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Anyone running fixed front and a folding rear? Quoted:
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I've used MBUS G2, MBUS Pro, Troy flip ups, KAC and DD fixed. If I run a magnified optic, I prefer the MBUS Pro. If I run an RDS, like my T2/LT660, I prefer the DD fixed. Anyone running fixed front and a folding rear? The U.S. Army did for a long time. FSB and a Matech. |
I'm old school and my favorite BUIS is my Knight's Armament Co. 300m flip up rear sight (P/N 97082), I've had it for 11 years now but still works great. It is one of the lowest folded height above the rail which I measured 0.315" at the center area (not the windage knob) above the top of rail. I prefer a fixed FSB but if I have to get a folding front sight I for sure will get the KAC original flip up front sight (P/N 99051). The KAC BUIS are battle proven by our military for a very long time, if these are a little on the high cost look at KAC Micro series with slightly lower cost but still works the same. I've got a Troy Dioptic with the last gen with better mounting anti-tilt clamp (which I would recommend than the new current mounting clamp), for low light conditions it works fine but when I use it on daylight the rear aperture seems too big and it was hard for me to align it. I tried tritium sights on my other non AR carbine and didn't like it, and mine folds out of view, but when in use kind of too busy even if my tritium are a different green color versus the red dot, but I use tritium night sights on some of my pistols. |
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Application; Flat top AR15, 16" barrel with 13" Geissele mk2 rail. Will be Lower 1/3 Co witness with an Aimpoint T2 on a KAC #25682 mount. I can't make up my mind between HK or M4 style front sites, Dioptic or round rear, or if I should add tritium. Might get a little "busy" in the site picture with Tritium? Prefer folding sites. Not sure Troy's political issues are a real hang up for me... but I sure like their products. Thanks! Pretty awesome if you can find them. Discontinued. 
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Anyone have any intel on the Magpul MBUS Pro LR ? Rear sight.
Found it on primary arms. The LR is only on the rear sight and is roughly 40$ more than the regular MBUS Pro. And is the LR only for the rear sight and still pairs up with the standard MBUS Pro front sight? And a side note...has anyonw jad experience with LWRC Skirmish Sights? Thanks |
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The U.S. Army did for a long time. FSB and a Matech. Quoted:
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I've used MBUS G2, MBUS Pro, Troy flip ups, KAC and DD fixed. If I run a magnified optic, I prefer the MBUS Pro. If I run an RDS, like my T2/LT660, I prefer the DD fixed. Anyone running fixed front and a folding rear? The U.S. Army did for a long time. FSB and a Matech. They still do. I didn't care for the Matech - pointlessly complicated and too easy to bump off zero. I have a GG&G MAD rear and FSB on my M4 clone. |
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Watch PA's sales on the PRO's. I got a PRO LR rear and a PRO front for $120 by watching their frequent sales. Quoted:
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Magpul Pro's back in stock at DSG.158.00 shipped.I just ordered a set. Watch PA's sales on the PRO's. I got a PRO LR rear and a PRO front for $120 by watching their frequent sales. Amazing deal |
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