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7/9/2014 11:40:46 AM EDT
Been reading online and a lot of people seem to strongly dislike sore us vs aimpoints.
I've had both and both have worked well (sof has used eotechs for years, and they are coveted in my unit)

I've owned a few and loved them...
So why do people dislike them so much?
Thank you
7/9/2014 11:42:13 AM EDT
[#1]
The only one I have ever owned had dead batteries every time I pulled it out of the safe.
7/9/2014 11:44:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Been reading online and a lot of people seem to strongly dislike sore us vs aimpoints.
I've had both and both have worked well (sof has used eotechs for years, and they are coveted in my unit)

I've owned a few and loved them...
So why do people dislike them so much?
Thank you
View Quote


My only issues are...

Battery life compared to current Aimpoint's

The automatic shutoff (I assume this is related to battery life)

I also feel (personal observations) that they may not be as robust as Aimpoint's

I'd love to see a EoTech with a  3000 Battery life and no automatic shutoff.
7/9/2014 11:58:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
The only one I have ever owned had dead batteries every time I pulled it out of the safe.
View Quote


That is repairable, for free if it's still under warranty.
I paid $300 for a 552 with a GG&G lever a while back, built in 2006.  Had it serviced for  $75 and it's like new, including the much brighter post-07 max setting.  Stopped killing batteries too.
7/9/2014 12:18:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Because Aimpoint have a better track record and better battery life. The FOV thing is stupid because you should be shooting both eyes open anyways. Considering looks (reticle) over the robustness and battery life also doesn't make sense to me. Even if I did prefer the eotech reticle I wouldn't choose that over said pros of Aimpoint.
7/9/2014 12:19:21 PM EDT
[#5]
batteries die, can't even consider them seriously for most people.
7/9/2014 12:23:01 PM EDT
[#6]
The battery contacts and battery compartment contacts on the 512 and 552 series is a problem.  I've sold all but 1 of my EoTec sights and when we went to the Colt Commando for SWAT we went Aimpoint because we got tired of the 552's going down from time to time.

No internet BS coming from me... I've personally experienced power supply/battery contact issues on my personal and issued EoTec sights as well as witnessing others have problems.

I just received new contacts and battery compartment kits from EoTec for FREE to upgrade my own sight as well as the ones we still have in service.

As for the other EoTec products, I can't speak for them... I've only owned/used the 512 and 552 series sights.
7/9/2014 12:27:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Mine's for a non-technical reason... They never paid me the $150 rebate that they were supposed to, years ago. They blamed it on the rebate processing firm, who lost my rebate. And, though I had copies of my receipt and form, they refused to honor it, again blaming it on the processing company. Processing company said they needed originals, which I had sent them. Both parties pointed fingers... and I just decided to never by Eotech again.

Silly reason, but reason enough. I still have one Eotech (use to have several), but won't ever buy another.
7/9/2014 1:02:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:
Mine's for a non-technical reason... They never paid me the $150 rebate that they were supposed to, years ago. They blamed it on the rebate processing firm, who lost my rebate. And, though I had copies of my receipt and form, they refused to honor it, again blaming it on the processing company. Processing company said they needed originals, which I had sent them. Both parties pointed fingers... and I just decided to never by Eotech again.

Silly reason, but reason enough. I still have one Eotech (use to have several), but won't ever buy another.
View Quote


Wow...I just purchased a XPS2 and sent in the paperwork for the rebate about 3 weeks ago.  Sure hope it doesn't get lost.!!
7/9/2014 1:05:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  

It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.
7/9/2014 1:05:55 PM EDT
[#10]
I really like my Eotech XPS2 and don't believe I will ever have battery issues because it is turned off except when shooting.

People that uses the battery life issue as an excuse to not buy Eotech is a bit ridiculous at best.  How many of these people need it for active military use of police use?  

I do not believe that number is very high.
7/9/2014 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice the mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  
It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.
View Quote


Right...my feelings exactly.
7/9/2014 1:21:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Haters gonna hate.  I have never had an issue with my EXPS2-0  Much of the past issues were resolved in the xps and exps when they went to new battery orentation (sideways).  My only complaint was on day two of my carbine course i activated the 4 hour mode not 8 and for got to turn it off and on during lunch and it turned itself off during a course of fire.  That is user error not the optic.  I have nothing against aimpoint they are good too, i just like the eotech reticle best.
7/9/2014 1:47:41 PM EDT
[#13]
I once went to a rifle range where they were doing a aim point / eotech comparison. The salesman was aim point rep and he had a rifle zeroed with a ML2 aimpoint and a rifle with the eotech. He fired 10 rounds  hitting the steel at 100 and then he took the aim point off the rifle and threw it down the range. He also did that with the eotech.

Both were picked and reattached to their rifles. The aimpont worked, and he rang steel at 100. The eotech was cracked but still held zero.

He then dunked them in a bucket of water for a minute. Again same thing - they worked.

He started demonstrating the settings of brightness, and the eotech died.

He had done that demo 10 times with the aim point . The eotech was new . He had never had one survive a demo twice .
7/9/2014 2:01:26 PM EDT
[#14]
EO is nowhere near as durable as an aimpoint. When it's MY $700+ I expect it to survive a year or more in an austere environment. If you take your safe queen to a yeager class it's not really the same. Before you tell me how  many special people use EO you have to consider how deep their budget is. Im not going to put in fresh batteries every day when its my money and there isnt a hardigg box of free EOs in my basment for when they eventually and inevitable shit the bed.
7/9/2014 2:07:52 PM EDT
[#15]
I've gone to IWQ with the M68 CCO and ACOG. I shoot a 552/553 on my ARs. I prefer the Eotechs, I like the FOV
7/9/2014 2:09:28 PM EDT
[#16]
The  nitrogen charge keeps leaking out of mine (and my brothers and my brother-in-laws). You think a $500+ optic would not have these problems.
7/9/2014 2:36:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
EO is nowhere near as durable as an aimpoint. When it's MY $700+ I expect it to survive a year or more in an austere environment. If you take your safe queen to a yeager class it's not really the same. Before you tell me how  many special people use EO you have to consider how deep their budget is. Im not going to put in fresh batteries every day when its my money and there isnt a hardigg box of free EOs in my basment for when they eventually and inevitable shit the bed.
View Quote

Well at least we can agree on some things... And if you guys are interested go to here and look at the reliability surveys... That should be enough to decide combined with the battery life counted in YEARS instead of hours.
7/9/2014 4:43:38 PM EDT
[#18]
No hate here, I've had the same 512 on my 6721 since I took a carbine class in 2005, with lithium batteries it's never given me any problems.





When I moved from Alaska and shipped the guns down here, I did remove the batteries, other than that it hasn't been treated any differently.





No battery leakage, no donut coming loose in the housing, maybe I got the one that was blessed, according to common thought it should have either burnt the house down or at the very least failed by now.
ETA fixed.



 
7/9/2014 5:20:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote History
Quoted:
EO is nowhere near as durable as an aimpoint. When it's MY $700+ I expect it to survive a year or more in an austere environment. If you take your safe queen to a yeager class it's not really the same. Before you tell me how  many special people use EO you have to consider how deep their budget is. Im not going to put in fresh batteries every day when its my money and there isnt a hardigg box of free EOs in my basment for when they eventually and inevitable shit the bed.
View Quote



I used mine every deployment without issues - it's sitting on my first slot AR now...

0 durability issues
7/9/2014 5:27:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote History
Quoted:
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  

It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  

It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.



If you are going to try and provide an argument you need to at least get your facts right.

Aimpoint is NOT a Swiss company, they are manufactured in Sweden, a WHOLE different country.


Quoted:

People that uses the battery life issue as an excuse to not buy Eotech is a bit ridiculous at best.  How many of these people need it for active military use of police use?  

I do not believe that number is very high.


I use my Aimpoint T-1 on my Duty carbine, even though it has a 5 yr battery life I change it before I go on Duty every New Years Eve. It is NEVER shut off!!!

BTW, if the EoTech is so durable, WHY has the U.S. Military changed their procurement to Aimpoint or ACOG only?
7/9/2014 5:48:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote History
Quoted:
The  nitrogen charge keeps leaking out of mine (and my brothers and my brother-in-laws). You think a $500+ optic would not have these problems.
View Quote

This happened to my EXPS2 after owning it for 1 year. Eotech recharged it and sent it back in a week. Hope it never happens again to this unit and my other exps3. I was kinda pissed but I love the Eotech sight picture better then my Aimpoint pro.
7/9/2014 5:57:19 PM EDT
[#22]
How do you know if ghe nitrogen leaks? It fogs up?
7/9/2014 6:01:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote History
Quoted:
How do you know if ghe nitrogen leaks? It fogs up?
View Quote

It Dims bad. Mine would get super dim on the sides when I moved it around. I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim. Hopefully It never has that problem again after they 'Fixed" it.  I hope they found the leak and fixed it and not just filled it back up to leak out again in 9 more months. Time will tell.
7/9/2014 6:35:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote History
Quoted:



If you are going to try and provide an argument you need to at least get your facts right.

Aimpoint is NOT a Swiss company, they are manufactured in Sweden, a WHOLE different country.




I use my Aimpoint T-1 on my Duty carbine, even though it has a 5 yr battery life I change it before I go on Duty every New Years Eve. It is NEVER shut off!!!

BTW, if the EoTech is so durable, WHY has the U.S. Military changed their procurement to Aimpoint or ACOG only?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  

It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.



If you are going to try and provide an argument you need to at least get your facts right.

Aimpoint is NOT a Swiss company, they are manufactured in Sweden, a WHOLE different country.


Quoted:

People that uses the battery life issue as an excuse to not buy Eotech is a bit ridiculous at best.  How many of these people need it for active military use of police use?  

I do not believe that number is very high.


I use my Aimpoint T-1 on my Duty carbine, even though it has a 5 yr battery life I change it before I go on Duty every New Years Eve. It is NEVER shut off!!!

BTW, if the EoTech is so durable, WHY has the U.S. Military changed their procurement to Aimpoint or ACOG only?


Me being geographically challenged and confusing Sweden with Switzerland has nothing do to with these tired old arguments against EOTech.   If you're talking about the U.S. Army as being the all encompassing "U.S. Military", then yes, EOTechs are no longer on any GPF unit books as far as I know, and we (Army) went to Aimpoints and ACOGs exclusively sometime back in '08.  However, EOTech was awarded a defense contract as recently as 2010 to develop a new targeting system, and SOCOM is still fielding the HWS.  An EOTech was used to take out Bin Laden fer chrissake.  Maybe you should do some fact checking yourself.  FWIW, I also run an Aimpoint.
7/9/2014 6:37:24 PM EDT
[#25]
I have a 512 model made June 2012 according to the tag. I love it. Never had an issue with it.

Never tested the battery issue though. I always take out the batteries when I store it out of fear of corrosion. That fact has nothing to do with battery life but just me not liking keeping batteries in things I don't use for a while.

I went with other optics though. I saw in the past a acog ta01nsn with a eo tech as an red dot and I tried it and really like it. You can also buy a g33 magnifier to get the same effects.

No real cons I know of but then again no idea how others are using it. Maybe soldiers or marines can give an explanation ?

Really it comes down to preference, I think. One reason I chose an eotech was a demonstration one day where someone had a completely shattered eotech but it drew the reticle on another part of the HUD. I figured if that is that powerful it must be good for me, someone who drops things a lot. I did drop it. Matter of fact I dropped it just now looking at the date to make sure I had it right. Still works.
7/9/2014 9:03:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote History
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..
View Quote


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.
7/9/2014 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Been reading online and a lot of people seem to strongly dislike sore us vs aimpoints.
I've had both and both have worked well (sof has used eotechs for years, and they are coveted in my unit)

I've owned a few and loved them...
So why do people dislike them so much?
Thank you
View Quote


People buy Aimpoints for their battery life and the fact that they can turn them on and will never turn them off for years or probably never except for a battery swap. People also can have a preference for the simple dot vs the cluttered Eotech sight picture. I had an old school Bushnell holo (made by Eotech for Bushnell) and shot it side by side with my buddies Aimpoint. I prefer the simplicity of putting the dot on target or over or under. Google Eotech failures vs Aimpoint failures I saw a lot more results on the front page from the Eotech and I'm not saying it's a POS. I think the Eotech is cool and that you can use the reticle to range a target. Everyone has different preferences is what it boils down to. Use what you like and others will use what they like.
7/9/2014 9:23:12 PM EDT
[#28]
I had a 512 a few years ago. I liked it, loved the reticle, but it was just a bit to big for my preference. I really like the mini red dots like the Aimpoint Micros and Vortex SPARC. If I am going to spend 500+ on a red dot, it's going to be an Aimpoint micro, for the weight, small size, ruggedness and battery life. I have nothing against eotech's, I just personally prefer the mini red dots.
7/9/2014 10:16:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote History
Quoted:


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.

Reading.... I guess it's over rated. He was talking about nitrogen leaking out of his sight and it made it extremely dim around the edges especially while moving the sight.
7/9/2014 10:33:06 PM EDT
[#30]
I can't use them, the reticle is too blurry, it looks like a bunch of tiny dots grouped together.  I'd have to mount it out on the end of the rail to be able to use it. I'll stick with my Aimpoints.
7/10/2014 1:02:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote History
Quoted:
I can't use them, the reticle is too blurry, it looks like a bunch of tiny dots grouped together.  I'd have to mount it out on the end of the rail to be able to use it. I'll stick with my Aimpoints.
View Quote


same for me, bought one used and thought it was broken. Went to gander and tried out a xps2-0 and it was the exact same.

7/10/2014 3:15:09 AM EDT
[#32]
I have several different optics , including an aimpoint pro and an eotech xps 2-2 . I can see why law enforcement officers and military people would lean more toward the aimpoint. I really like my eotech I got a killer deal with it being on sale , in store credit and a rebate from eotech . 365.00 to the door . I would not pay over 500 dollars for one nor would I pay over 500 dollars for an aimpoint . battery life is amazing on the aimpoint , mine has been left on for almost 3 years now. the eotech has been on the same battery for 9 months I simply turn it on when I leave the house and turn it off when I come back no big deal I carry spare cr 123 batteries because my light uses the same batteries its no big deal I say be prepared . I keep a spare battery for my aimpoint in the pistol grip also just in case . I have no complaints with either sight but then again my biggest need the rifle right now issue is a predator trying to get in the chicken coop or rabbit pens . I wish I could carry spare tritium for my acog .
I like variety , some people dont , if you are buying for a police department or military unit then you should probably do alot of research and testing  I get it. If your like me just a joe shmoe who enjoys shooting ar rifles pick your poison and be happy with it.
7/10/2014 3:23:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote History
Quoted:

Reading.... I guess it's over rated. He was talking about nitrogen leaking out of his sight and it made it extremely dim around the edges especially while moving the sight.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.

Reading.... I guess it's over rated. He was talking about nitrogen leaking out of his sight and it made it extremely dim around the edges especially while moving the sight.


I know that, but he said he couldn't use it with a lower 1/3rd cowitness.  What does the reticle's appearance at the lower 1/3'd have to do with the ability to cowitness irons unless he's trying to use both the reticle and the irons at the same time?
7/10/2014 3:35:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote History
Quoted:


I know that, but he said he couldn't use it with a lower 1/3rd cowitness.  What does the reticle's appearance at the lower 1/3'd have to do with the ability to cowitness irons unless he's trying to use both the reticle and the irons at the same time?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.

Reading.... I guess it's over rated. He was talking about nitrogen leaking out of his sight and it made it extremely dim around the edges especially while moving the sight.


I know that, but he said he couldn't use it with a lower 1/3rd cowitness.  What does the reticle's appearance at the lower 1/3'd have to do with the ability to cowitness irons unless he's trying to use both the reticle and the irons at the same time?


If he can't see the reticle then it's not cowitnessing... it's just using irons?

I had a 512 at one point. It was made in early 07. The windage adjustment some how broke and I had to send it in to EOTech. Battery contacts also needed repaired/replaced. The batteries didn't last very long at all and the reticle bothered my astigmatism. That's why I sold it and went with an Aimpoint.

You can bring up the EXPS line fixing the battery contact issue, but they also cost a good $200 more. I'll take my Aimpoint Pro any day of the week. A T-1 any day of the year - they're just a little too expensive.
7/10/2014 4:15:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote History
Quoted:


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.

I think I was asleep when I wrote that. What I mean is when I line up my irons to use them the redicle washes out compleatly so I can't even see it at the bottom where my irons are at.
7/10/2014 4:39:09 AM EDT
[#36]
I like products that are as bombproof as they can be.

Ceteris paribus, why pay so much money for an optic line that has some serious questions about its ability to withstand abuse and/or stay on when you need it?

I get that DEVGRU and CAG can replace there's if they even sense a dip in performance, but I can't do that.
7/10/2014 5:04:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote History
Quoted:

I think I was asleep when I wrote that. What I mean is when I line up my irons to use them the redicle washes out compleatly so I can't even see it at the bottom where my irons are at.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could not even do the lower 1/3 co witness with my irons because it was so dim..


Lol wut?
Explain how the brightness of the reticle affects your ability to use irons through the window.
I HOPE you're just saying that you use the reticle to rough-in the sight-in of the irons, or vise versa.

I think I was asleep when I wrote that. What I mean is when I line up my irons to use them the redicle washes out compleatly so I can't even see it at the bottom where my irons are at.



Gotcha
7/10/2014 5:14:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote History
Quoted:
Jeezus.   Here we go again with outdated information regarding the 500 series EOTechs.   The issues with the older model EOTechs are well documented and are often regurtitated by couch commandos whose purpose in life is to post more than they shoot, practice mag flipping, and shoot using the choke-the-chicken Costa grip, endlessy terrorizing innocent paper targets and water bottles.  

It's also well documented that EOTech has long since addressed the battery issues and have offered to fix or replace units that people have sent in for repair and continue to do so.  The newer models have worked fine, and with regards to them being robust I'd rank them right up there with Aimpoints.  

XPS Torture Test (by an Aimpoint user)

It's funny how so many people are all about MADE IN 'MURICA!, but at the same time take every opportunity to bash an American company and American inginuity.  Yeah, the Swiss have it all figured out.   For the record I've seen my fair share of deadlined Aimpoints sitting in arms rooms, tagged and ready for turn-in.  Shit happens.  Welcome to 2014.
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Even the news EXPS/XPS series has had some issues, for example delamination (reticle begins to fade in all but a small are of the glass.  Personally I like the reticle but I don't have nearly the trust in them as I do Aimpoint.  I'd love for L3 to get their stuff together, but unfortunately I have very little faith in any of their products.  I had a weapon light from them that was broken out of the box, they did fix it but it took months to get it squared away.
7/10/2014 5:14:08 AM EDT
[#39]
I like my Eotech a lot, i just like my T-1 better.  To me, the better reticle on the EO is not enough to outweigh the lighter weight and better battery life on the Aimpoint.
7/10/2014 8:20:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Mine started to delaminate just from shooting 5.56, not even a high round count either.

The battery life is pretty horrible compared to their competition, mine seems to go through batteries at an inconsistent rate too.

The reticle could use some improving in my opinion.  I know they have a 2 dot reticle for drop compensation but it's not very advanced.  You'd think with the popularity of their 3x magnifiers, they would come out with a better reticle.

It's big and heavy, but not necessarily stronger than the competition.
7/10/2014 8:53:42 AM EDT
[#41]
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same for me, bought one used and thought it was broken. Went to gander and tried out a xps2-0 and it was the exact same.

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I can't use them, the reticle is too blurry, it looks like a bunch of tiny dots grouped together.  I'd have to mount it out on the end of the rail to be able to use it. I'll stick with my Aimpoints.


same for me, bought one used and thought it was broken. Went to gander and tried out a xps2-0 and it was the exact same.



If you need glasses for distance then unless you are wearing them then yes the reticle will appear fuzzy.  Eotech clearly stated that people who are nearsighted should wear their glasses.

When I put my glasses on the reticle sharpened right up.
7/10/2014 9:09:34 AM EDT
[#42]
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I once went to a rifle range where they were doing a aim point / eotech comparison. The salesman was aim point rep and he had a rifle zeroed with a ML2 aimpoint and a rifle with the eotech. He fired 10 rounds  hitting the steel at 100 and then he took the aim point off the rifle and threw it down the range. He also did that with the eotech.

Both were picked and reattached to their rifles. The aimpont worked, and he rang steel at 100. The eotech was cracked but still held zero.

He then dunked them in a bucket of water for a minute. Again same thing - they worked.

He started demonstrating the settings of brightness, and the eotech died.

He had done that demo 10 times with the aim point . The eotech was new . He had never had one survive a demo twice .
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I'm not saying you didn't see that, but I find it hard to believe. It's kind of like that MR556/416 video where this guy was demonstrating the HK was great with water but a normal M4 somehow exploded. Looked very staged.

If the rep used a eotech just 10 times, as you said, and an eo tech only lasted 2 times, that means he had to bring 5 eo techs. 5x400 dollars (assuming he gotten the cheaper 512 models) that equates to about 2000 bucks just to show potential buyers at the range that day. That is quite a pricey demonstration just to show how great their product are. My guess it was staged.
7/10/2014 9:12:11 AM EDT
[#43]
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If you need glasses for distance then unless you are wearing them then yes the reticle will appear fuzzy.  Eotech clearly stated that people who are nearsighted should wear their glasses.

When I put my glasses on the reticle sharpened right up.
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I can't use them, the reticle is too blurry, it looks like a bunch of tiny dots grouped together.  I'd have to mount it out on the end of the rail to be able to use it. I'll stick with my Aimpoints.


same for me, bought one used and thought it was broken. Went to gander and tried out a xps2-0 and it was the exact same.



If you need glasses for distance then unless you are wearing them then yes the reticle will appear fuzzy.  Eotech clearly stated that people who are nearsighted should wear their glasses.

When I put my glasses on the reticle sharpened right up.


This is true. EO Tech has a whole page, if I remember right, just on if you see the reticle differently.
7/10/2014 9:23:21 AM EDT
[#44]
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This is true. EO Tech has a whole page, if I remember right, just on if you see the reticle differently.
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I can't use them, the reticle is too blurry, it looks like a bunch of tiny dots grouped together.  I'd have to mount it out on the end of the rail to be able to use it. I'll stick with my Aimpoints.


same for me, bought one used and thought it was broken. Went to gander and tried out a xps2-0 and it was the exact same.



If you need glasses for distance then unless you are wearing them then yes the reticle will appear fuzzy.  Eotech clearly stated that people who are nearsighted should wear their glasses.

When I put my glasses on the reticle sharpened right up.


This is true. EO Tech has a whole page, if I remember right, just on if you see the reticle differently.


Right....I was ready to return mine until I actually READ the manual.  People who are nearsighted will have to wear their glasses.  Since I have to wear glasses to shoot anyway this is not a problem for me.
7/10/2014 10:12:31 AM EDT
[#45]
The base line function of the Aimpoint and the Eotech are so different that I don't personally understand why people compare them.  OK they ARE attempting to fill the same task, so that brings up the obligatory comparisons, but the actual function of the two is apples and oranges.  

The Eotech uses a laser emitter and the Aimpoint uses a simple red LED.  The LED uses less power, therefore requires less battery.  There is no way Eotech could get 50,000 hours out of a laser with a battery.  So unless they plan to switch to a simple LED, the battery life is probably never going to surpass 1,000 hours.  The Aimpoint is also a bit more bullet proof (no pun intended) because LEDs are encased, generally in poly carbonate, where lasers tend to be more sensitive.  It takes a lot to knock an LED out, just look at the LED weapon lights people love.  

Aimpoint also uses a refractive lens in the housing so what you're looking at is a direct reflection of the LED at the base of the sight through a translucent "mirror".  Because of that, the focal point is shorter.  Eotech uses a holographic image embedded on a plate in the lenses that is illuminated by a laser.  Since it's not a reflection of an active element, the focal point is for all intents and purposes infinite.  Which is why they want you to wear glasses.  In both cases, they want you to focus on the target not the reticle.  So by shear optics, the aimpoint will tend to blur a little more as you focus out at distance where the eotech will tend to sharpen at distance.  Since the eotech is a laser emitter, the image will appear to be pixelated due to the nature of laser emitted light.  And since the Aimpoint is a simple LED, you will not get that pixelation effect.  

Also, and I think this is personal preference, I think people tend not to like the Eotech reticle because it almost begs the eye to try to focus on the reticle instead of the target.  But when you do that, it throws the reticle out of focus so your mind starts to fight with it.  Trying to focus on it and making it blurry and back and forth.  Which is understandable because almost all shooting is done with the mantra of front sight post, front sight post, front sight post.  So you're so used to front sight, you try to replicate that with the Eotech because it's a bullseye with a dot.  It's less prevalent with the Aimpoint because there is less in the way to draw your eye to and the dot is supposed to be a little out of focus anyway when you are using it properly.  So it's less distracting to some people.

For me, I use Eotech.  Not because I have anything at all against Aimpoint.  I just prefer the reticle for personal use.  I've tried both and kept coming back to the Eotech.  But that is purely a preference thing.  I'm not too concerned about battery life.  I figured out how to turn on the Eotech and to my surprise, it was pretty easy to do... LOL (just messing).  At some point a "torture" test becomes utterly ridiculous.  Yeah, the Aimpoint can survive being dropped from a helicopter.  I don't own a helicopter.  I know, the toughest wins, but I really only need it to be so tough.  I don't really need an optic that can survive a 3 day stint on the surface of the sun.  Cause much of what people call a torture test would probably kill the user before it would kill the gun.  (Don't get me wrong, they are impressive to watch and it shows a strong and durable product.)  It's just that if one optic can be frozen in ice and sunk to the bottom of a 150' lake and swallowed by a shark and then retrieved and shot while the other one can only be frozen in ice and sunk to the bottom of a 125' lake before being swallowed by a shark and then retrieved and shot...  Am I really going to suffer from that lack of 25' of depth?  I mean come on, by the end of that, I'm shark poo no matter which optic I have.
7/10/2014 11:35:09 AM EDT
[#46]
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The base line function of the Aimpoint and the Eotech are so different that I don't personally understand why people compare them.  OK they ARE attempting to fill the same task, so that brings up the obligatory comparisons, but the actual function of the two is apples and oranges.  

The Eotech uses a laser emitter and the Aimpoint uses a simple red LED.  The LED uses less power, therefore requires less battery.  There is no way Eotech could get 50,000 hours out of a laser with a battery.  So unless they plan to switch to a simple LED, the battery life is probably never going to surpass 1,000 hours.  The Aimpoint is also a bit more bullet proof (no pun intended) because LEDs are encased, generally in poly carbonate, where lasers tend to be more sensitive.  It takes a lot to knock an LED out, just look at the LED weapon lights people love.  

Aimpoint also uses a refractive lens in the housing so what you're looking at is a direct reflection of the LED at the base of the sight through a translucent "mirror".  Because of that, the focal point is shorter.  Eotech uses a holographic image embedded on a plate in the lenses that is illuminated by a laser.  Since it's not a reflection of an active element, the focal point is for all intents and purposes infinite.  Which is why they want you to wear glasses.  In both cases, they want you to focus on the target not the reticle.  So by shear optics, the aimpoint will tend to blur a little more as you focus out at distance where the eotech will tend to sharpen at distance.  Since the eotech is a laser emitter, the image will appear to be pixelated due to the nature of laser emitted light.  And since the Aimpoint is a simple LED, you will not get that pixelation effect.  

Also, and I think this is personal preference, I think people tend not to like the Eotech reticle because it almost begs the eye to try to focus on the reticle instead of the target.  But when you do that, it throws the reticle out of focus so your mind starts to fight with it.  Trying to focus on it and making it blurry and back and forth.  Which is understandable because almost all shooting is done with the mantra of front sight post, front sight post, front sight post.  So you're so used to front sight, you try to replicate that with the Eotech because it's a bullseye with a dot.  It's less prevalent with the Aimpoint because there is less in the way to draw your eye to and the dot is supposed to be a little out of focus anyway when you are using it properly.  So it's less distracting to some people.

For me, I use Eotech.  Not because I have anything at all against Aimpoint.  I just prefer the reticle for personal use.  I've tried both and kept coming back to the Eotech.  But that is purely a preference thing.  I'm not too concerned about battery life.  I figured out how to turn on the Eotech and to my surprise, it was pretty easy to do... LOL (just messing).  At some point a "torture" test becomes utterly ridiculous.  Yeah, the Aimpoint can survive being dropped from a helicopter.  I don't own a helicopter.  I know, the toughest wins, but I really only need it to be so tough.  I don't really need an optic that can survive a 3 day stint on the surface of the sun.  Cause much of what people call a torture test would probably kill the user before it would kill the gun.  (Don't get me wrong, they are impressive to watch and it shows a strong and durable product.)  It's just that if one optic can be frozen in ice and sunk to the bottom of a 150' lake and swallowed by a shark and then retrieved and shot while the other one can only be frozen in ice and sunk to the bottom of a 125' lake before being swallowed by a shark and then retrieved and shot...  Am I really going to suffer from that lack of 25' of depth?  I mean come on, by the end of that, I'm shark poo no matter which optic I have.
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Excellent comparison as well as quite rational.
7/10/2014 11:36:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Guess what most modern lasers are...

LED's

There is no doubt that Aimpoint has their shit together, it seems like no other red dot manufacturer can built one with a 5 year battery life.
7/10/2014 11:41:30 AM EDT
[#48]
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BTW, if the EoTech is so durable, WHY has the U.S. Military changed their procurement to Aimpoint or ACOG only?
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So...by that logic, the Beretta M9 is the most durable handgun in the world
7/10/2014 11:45:21 AM EDT
[#49]
The majority of owners of these optics are fat guys that sit in their basement, "Pew Pewing" in their underwear - so it is quite difficult to compare notes of real durability, etc.

During my time training as a civilian and time as an Infantryman in the USMC, I saw both fail - the eotech far more so than the Aimpoint. The battery life is also appealing, if I forget and leave my Aimpoint on - I'm not coming back to dead batteries. Those are my reasons.
7/10/2014 12:09:59 PM EDT
[#50]
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Guess what most modern lasers are...

LED's

There is no doubt that Aimpoint has their shit together, it seems like no other red dot manufacturer can built one with a 5 year battery life.
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Sorry, but this is not true.  They are not LEDs, they are LD.  LED is Light Emitting Diode.  LD is Laser Diode.  They may both be based on a diode, but they are not exactly the same thing.  An LD requires more power than an LED.  LED generates incoherent light so it doesn't show what people call pixelation.  LDs generate coherent light of a specific wavelength which can show up as being pixelated.  Bottom line, a low power LED can have a 5 year battery life where an LD cannot.  It's not because Eotech can't figure out how to make an LED work.  It's because they chose to use an LD for the holograph and sacrifice the power drain.

BTW, I know people don't have to just believe me, so for a brief explanation here is the answer from Laser Energy Works:

"Lasers are monochromatic (single color wavelength), collimated (non-divergent) and coherent (wavelengths in- phase) in contrast, LED's are neither coherent nor collimated and generate a broader band of wavelengths (multiple). In addition, a significant difference between the two is the power output. The peak power output of lasers is measured in watts, while that of LED's, is measured in milliwatts. Also, LED's usually have a 50% duty cycle, meaning that they are "on" 50% of the time and "off" 50% of the time regardless of what frequency (pulses per second) setting is used.

There are many light emitting products on the market today, claiming to be lasers that do not meet scientifically defined attributes for being a true laser. For example, products that use Light Emitting Diodes or LEDs as they are more commonly known, do in fact produce light, however the light is not intense, producing very little energy and is non-coherent, similar to light produced by common household light bulbs. Non-coherent or non-culminated light is the result of photons moving in random directions at random times, generating random frequencies. The most common use of LEDs is in electronic equipment, such as cell phones and VCRs, to inform the users that the item is ON. LEDs are cheap and easy to reproduce (Pontinen 1992). Obviously, these devices are NOT lasers. This misconception is in large part a by-product of marketing. Some sales professional use the word "laser" in order to describe a process such as in "laser pointers" which refers more to mankind's collective imagination than scientific comprehension."

http://www.laserenergyworks.com/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=34264
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