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Posted: 12/28/2013 2:06:00 PM EDT
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I got my Aimpoint PRO delivered today from Optics planet and mounted it on my new rifle build. I was expecting an absolute cowitness so I also purchased a Primary Arms high cantilever mount for it as well. It turns out that the PA mount and the Aimpoint mount are the exact same height. When mounted it does not produce an absolute cowitness with the Aimpoint mount but the red dot is about 3-4mm above my front sight.
I like how the dot sits so I am keeping the stock mount but I am a bit confused. Is it not supposed to be an absolute cowitness with the spacer? Another interesting piece of information is that I got an owners manual for an Aimpoint Comp M4 and not a PRO. Just wanted to know if this is the owners manual that comes with all PRO models. Thanks! |
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I just measured the height from the top of the rail to the center of the mounting rings (both of them). Both rings are at a height of 1.65" or 39-40mm. Since an absolute cowitness height is 1.40" both mounts are in between absolute and lower 1/3 co witness.
So in conclusion, the mount that comes with an Aimpoint PRO is not an "absolute cowitness." |
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Quoted: I When mounted it does not produce an absolute co-witness with the Aimpoint mount but the red dot is about 3-4mm above my front sight. Your reference to the red dot sitting 3-4mm above the front sight post (as proof of absolute vs lower 1/3) when you have not zeroed the red dot leads me to suspect you aren't fully understanding the meaning of lower 1/3 co-witness. |
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Why? That is backwards. You want to make sure your irons are sighted through the red dot, in case the red dot glass creates distortion that effects your plain sight zero. There is no reason to zero your red dot while looking through the irons. Quoted:
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... make sure you are looking through your irons when zeroing the aimpoint Why? That is backwards. You want to make sure your irons are sighted through the red dot, in case the red dot glass creates distortion that effects your plain sight zero. There is no reason to zero your red dot while looking through the irons. If OP irons are zeroed and the aimpoint dot was 3-4 mm higher than sitting on the front sight post. So zeroing the Aimpoint would fix his problem..right? Moving the aimpoint so the dot sits on the front sight post would zero the aimpoint...right? Then do your final zeroing at range. Worked fine on my aimpoint pro. |
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You are missing the point that the mount is not an absolute Co witness mount. A few posts up I showed that I measured from the rail to the center of the ring. It is not an absolute cowitness height of 1.4". It is more about 1.65" height. It is not quite a lower 1/3 cowitness but it is also definitely not absolute.
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There is a very simple solution. Zero your sights, and zero your red dot independently. Until then, and even after, don't worry about where the dot is in relation to your irons. Quoted:
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... make sure you are looking through your irons when zeroing the aimpoint Why? That is backwards. You want to make sure your irons are sighted through the red dot, in case the red dot glass creates distortion that effects your plain sight zero. There is no reason to zero your red dot while looking through the irons. If OP irons are zeroed and the aimpoint dot was 3-4 mm higher than sitting on the front sight post. So zeroing the Aimpoint would fix his problem..right? Moving the aimpoint so the dot sits on the front sight post would zero the aimpoint...right? Then do your final zeroing at range. Worked fine on my aimpoint pro. There is a very simple solution. Zero your sights, and zero your red dot independently. Until then, and even after, don't worry about where the dot is in relation to your irons. agreed |
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You are missing the point that the mount is not an absolute Co witness mount. A few posts up I showed that I measured from the rail to the center of the ring. It is not an absolute cowitness height of 1.4". It is more about 1.65" height. It is not quite a lower 1/3 cowitness but it is also definitely not absolute. Have you zeroed the aimpoint and irons? If you have not. I don't know what your problem is. When you look through irons on 1/3 co witness and absolute co witness the dot will be at top of irons. It doesn't matter if it is 1/3 or absolute. The red dot remains the same when looking through irons. |
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But there is a lot to discuss. There are a lot of people on this sight that keep telling others that the Aimpoint PRO is an absolute co witness. By measuring the height of the mount it is not. If anything, at least this can set the record strait.
But you are right. What I am describing is not an absolute co witness. I guess the first post was as clear as mud and I tried to clarify with my measurements later on which probably just jumbled this thread more. In that respect there is nothing more to discuss. I just want people to know that they are not going to get a true absolute co witness wit this optic and mount. |
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Originally Posted By H53EXPERT If someone is truly concerned, they would do a search before making a purchase, and it appears in plenty of discussions through a Google search. And they will get a whole lot of bad information on those google searches. Or at least conflicting information. I took the measurements and they don't lie. So stop trolling. |
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If you read the manual it will tell you how to zero the optic to the rifle. It requires you to use the iron sights to zero the optic first. They teach it to you also when you are issued a M4 in the military. It definitely helps get you in the ballpark...and then it is an independent zero. |
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I am probably wasting time posting this at this point, but here is my take on it. It doesn't matter if it is absolute co-witness, 1/3 co-witness, or almost 1/3 co witness. That only refers to where the irons are positioned within the tube of the optic. It has NOTHING to do with where the red dot sits. If the red dot is zeroed, and the irons are zeroed at the same distance, the red dot WILL BE on the front sight post when viewed through the irons. Otherwise, the point of aim/point of impact will of changed, make sense? I think you guys are misunderstanding what the reference to cowitness and the other terms refer to. Raising the optic a few mm with a different riser will increase the holdover needed at close range, and change trajectories by raising the sight line higher above the bore axis. This is not desired. The biggest reason to raise the optic is to put the irons in the lower part of the optic when they can't be folded, i.e. fixed irons. This will give the appearance that the dot is higher than the front post when being used because it should be used alone and not "lined up with the irons" when viewing. That defeats the speed of the red dot and is pretty stupid in my opinion. The PRO does come with a mount that raises the center point of the tube slightly above the sight line of the iron sights. This gives a clearer view through the tube when using the red dot. I have two and have them mounted on ARs with fixed front sights. I have two XPS Eotechs which place the sight line of fixed iron sights in the MIDDLE of the viewing screen. This is referred to absolute co witness. I have the one I am using mounted on an AR with foldable iron sights.
I hope this clarifies some of this misinformation. Can't believe there is this much confusion. |
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Military method... Zero your iron sights with the optic turned off. Then "lollipop" the dot in your iron sights. This is to get you close to your zero without shooting. Fold down your iron sight(s) and zero your optic.
Now you have 2 separately zeroed sighting systems on the weapon. As stated, it really doesn't matter where it is, as long as you can get zeroed without using up too much travel. If you do, something is off. |
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My PRO should be here this week...also ordered from Opticsplanet. I ripped the following pic from another post that helps explain the whole co-witness thing that some are having problems wrapping their heads around, HTH's. http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/levanger/cowit1-1.jpg Great illustration of what I was describing. Case closed. |
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I think what throws poeple off is the paralax correction. Having any kind of co witness sighting takes most of the work out of sighting im your rifle. Using a bore sighter works damn good too ( the ones that fit inside your chamber) Line up red dot with laser at as far distance as you can see the projected dot and youll be pretty damn close |
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I think what throws poeple off is the paralax correction. Having any kind of co witness sighting takes most of the work out of sighting im your rifle. Using a bore sighter works damn good too ( the ones that fit inside your chamber) Line up red dot with laser at as far distance as you can see the projected dot and youll be pretty damn close I am trying to learn all of this as well. My question is if I get a bore sight like you are referring to could I use it to sight in my iron sites are is that what you were saying? I ordered me a Aimpoint today and I am pretty confused about all this. Do I need any other mount to go with my Aimpoint Pro? The research I did said no but like I wrote now I am confused. |
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I am trying to learn all of this as well. My question is if I get a bore sight like you are referring to could I use it to sight in my iron sites are is that what you were saying? I ordered me a Aimpoint today and I am pretty confused about all this. Do I need any other mount to go with my Aimpoint Pro? The research I did said no but like I wrote now I am confused. Yes boresighters can be used to used to zero irons. It will get you close but usually final adjustments can be made. If you have a gun range you can go to, someone may be able to help you zero your irons without buying a boresighter. Aimpoint Pro comes with a mount and it should be fine. There are better ones out there which may or may not be beneficial depending on person. This is an Aimpoint Pro with a Larue cantilever mount.. helps to move the sight forward to run a magnifier behind. Also having it forward helps to see better with both eyes open. 
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