AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - best optic setup (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 10/26/2013 5:49:24 PM EDT
| I want an optic setup that I can use effectively 0-400 whether it be for coyote and varmint hunting where coyotes could be far away and a rabbit pops out 20 ft away or 3 gun or civil unrest where I'll need to either hold down the fort or raid walmart... |
|
Every "fighting/general purpose" carbine I have has an Aimpoint T1 on it.
You're rarely going to need to use your rifle with your life on the line beyond 50 yards (most likely much closer). And there's no other optic made that I can acquire targets quicker or more effective with than a T1. You add a QD 3x magnifier to that, and there's no better all-around setup. |
| love my Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x (its actually for sale in the EE to fund my FDE Elcan) but hate the price tag! but it sounds perfect for what you want to use it for.. it works great on my hog slayer.. will have to wait till the Trijicon VCOG comes out and reassess my optics options |
| It still seems as though most people are votng variable, but I agree that u need a t1 on there, but also having an acog means you've got a great option for target Iding and midrange engagements right? So why not that setup being superior to a variable that isn't quite as robust, has terrible battery life in comparison and takes time to adjust the magnification? |
|
Quoted:
love my Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x (its actually for sale in the EE to fund my FDE Elcan) but hate the price tag! but it sounds perfect for what you want to use it for.. it works great on my hog slayer.. will have to wait till the Trijicon VCOG comes out and reassess my optics options What's the link? |
|
Quoted:
Every "fighting/general purpose" carbine I have has an Aimpoint T1 on it. You're rarely going to need to use your rifle with your life on the line beyond 50 yards (most likely much closer). And there's no other optic made that I can acquire targets quicker or more effective with than a T1. You add a QD 3x magnifier to that, and there's no better all-around setup. I kind of think like you , since I live in Phoenix but I'm in a state of frustration with my next AR optic. I was trained as an instructor with an ACOG....I just don't like the idea of the 600 dollar re-lamp fee I want to try a variable next...if it's not fast enough I could throw a RDS on top I currently run an aimpoint It is nice to have a powered optic for clearer target ID and more precise shots... |
|
Quoted: I want an optic setup that I can use effectively 0-400 whether it be for coyote and varmint hunting where coyotes could be far away and a rabbit pops out 20 ft away or 3 gun or civil unrest where I'll need to either hold down the fort or raid walmart... For what you want to do I would suggest a 1-4, but if your gun is solely set-up for "HD" or "fighting/SHTF" then I would suggest the Aimpoint. It's not really that hard at all to use a red dot at 0-300 meters, but .223/5.56 drops off a good amount at 400 depending on your zero so you will need to practice. Good luck. ETA: Variable scopes, and ACOG's add a good amount of weight if that matters to you. quote/unquote fighting set-up=9.2 pounds loaded based on a 1 pound 30r mag with 55 grain ammo  Hunting set-up for Deer and Hogs= 11 pounds loaded based on a 1 pound 30 r mag  |
|
I run a Nikon African 1-4 with German #4 reticle. They sell them now but don't call them the African. They are in the Monarch 3 lineup. One inch tube. Weighs about 12 ounces. I do not want heavy scopes on my AR. It has 120 inches of adjustment...like you need it. It is very rugged. Designed for heavy African game calibers. It costs about $250. Again. How much do you need to spend? I mount it in a LaRue LT 104 and have BUIS. Works for me. ETA. It has 4 inch eye relief..not a critical relief. The ACOG has short and critical eye relief and is stupid expensive and fixed. |
|
Quoted:
What's the link? Quoted:
Quoted:
love my Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x (its actually for sale in the EE to fund my FDE Elcan) but hate the price tag! but it sounds perfect for what you want to use it for.. it works great on my hog slayer.. will have to wait till the Trijicon VCOG comes out and reassess my optics options What's the link? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_163/1234493_WTS___PRICE_DROPPED___1830_SHIPPED_LNIB_Black_Elcan_SpecterDR_1_4x_7_62_calibrated_w__Bikini_Cover.html |
|
Why not the best of both worlds and use a low power variable with an illuminated red dot? Leupold has a low power variable in a 1" tube in its Mark AR Mod 1 series and a 30mm with better glass and more elevation in its VX-R Patrol series. You can leave it cranked down and still use ranging reticle in a combat type situation, or crank it up for mil dot type ranging.
Shoot, you can even use the 3-9x40mm versions with TMR reticle and put a flip up lens cap on the objective. With it down the red dot is still on and you can use it as a both eye open occluded eye dot. Lightning quick. Flip the cap up and you have a magnifier scope up to 9x with full mil-dot reticle and mil-rad turret adjustments. That's what I run and like that a lot. |
|
Quoted: Why not the best of both worlds and use a low power variable with an illuminated red dot? Leupold has a low power variable in a 1" tube in its Mark AR Mod 1 series and a 30mm with better glass and more elevation in its VX-R Patrol series. You can leave it cranked down and still use ranging reticle in a combat type situation, or crank it up for mil dot type ranging. Shoot, you can even use the 3-9x40mm versions with TMR reticle and put a flip up lens cap on the objective. With it down the red dot is still on and you can use it as a both eye open occluded eye dot. Lightning quick. Flip the cap up and you have a magnifier scope up to 9x with full mil-dot reticle and mil-rad turret adjustments. That's what I run and like that a lot. |
|
Quoted:
you can also mount an RMR on top of the acog.. Quoted:
Quoted:
see thats what im thinking of but with a micro in offset so that there is zero sacrifice of speed at short distance... http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kryptek_patrol_01.jpg you can also mount an RMR on top of the acog.. Or place a front lens cap over the ACOG and leave it closed to use it as a CQB optic similar to the Armson OEG. |
| i think the whole point of running two optics is so that you dont have to take your hand off the gun to adjust or change anything. How isn't that better than a 1-X variable? Not to mention battery life sucks on variables as opposed to no batteries and 5 years of the acog and aimpoint respectively... |
|
Quoted:
i think the whole point of running two optics is so that you dont have to take your hand off the gun to adjust or change anything. How isn't that better than a 1-X variable? Not to mention battery life sucks on variables as opposed to no batteries and 5 years of the acog and aimpoint respectively... takes me less than a second to switch from 1x to 4x and plus my elcan has backup iron sights on top so it works pretty well for me.. i had the TA11 ACOG before switching to my current setup.. as far as battery life, i dont illuminate it unless its dark or in low light conditions or when using NV which really doesnt drain it too much since its so dim |
| so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time |
|
Quoted:
so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time well my hand never leaves the gun.. my off hand (my left) is what switches the lever from 1x to 4x while i am still looking down the scope sustaining my cheek wield and my right hand is still on the grip ready to fire.. so i would say its just as fast.. and if theyre that close to where i need 1x i would just use the iron sights on top which is faster than rotating and reacquiring your target.. to each their own.. |
|
Quoted: you can also mount an RMR on top of the acog.. Quoted: Quoted: see thats what im thinking of but with a micro in offset so that there is zero sacrifice of speed at short distance... http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kryptek_patrol_01.jpg you can also mount an RMR on top of the acog.. |
|
Quoted: so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time IMO it's slower to change from 1-4 on a scope, but guys who practice a lot and shoot a lot make it fast.
|
| i can't see how running two optics wouldn't be superior to just one variable optic. I mean cmon, don't they make you run in an entirely different class in 3 gun when you do that? Probably means theres an advantage to doing that...wouldn't that mean that acog+red dot in an offset would trump a variable by itself? |
|
Quoted:
Training! IMO it's slower to change from 1-4 on a scope, but guys who practice a lot and shoot a lot make it fast. Quoted:
Quoted:
so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time IMO it's slower to change from 1-4 on a scope, but guys who practice a lot and shoot a lot make it fast. maybe on a traditional variable scope where you turn a dial, but on the elcan its a lever you just move forward and back which is incredibly fast |
|
Quoted: maybe on a traditional variable scope where you turn a dial, but on the elcan its a lever you just move forward and back which is incredibly fast Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time IMO it's slower to change from 1-4 on a scope, but guys who practice a lot and shoot a lot make it fast. maybe on a traditional variable scope where you turn a dial, but on the elcan its a lever you just move forward and back which is incredibly fast Like I said it boils down to the person and how much they practice with the set-up they have.
|
|
Quoted:
I see what you mean, but you are still taking your support hand off the gun. Like I said it boils down to the person and how much they practice with the set-up they have. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so youre saying it can be just as fast to take your hand off the gun, switch magnifications, put your hand back on the gun, and acquire sight picture as it would to rotate the rifle and obtain sight picture, or are you saying its fast enough for you? What i am thinking is that sure, less than a second maybe .75 seconds? People can get at least three shots off in that time. I think being able to cut out half a second in that situation is huge, not to mention maintain control of the rifle the entire time IMO it's slower to change from 1-4 on a scope, but guys who practice a lot and shoot a lot make it fast. maybe on a traditional variable scope where you turn a dial, but on the elcan its a lever you just move forward and back which is incredibly fast Like I said it boils down to the person and how much they practice with the set-up they have. agreed.. |
|
Quoted: Wouldn't running a variable and a red dot be ridiculously heavy? Turning a handy lightweight carbine into something that weighs as much as a SAW doesn't sound fun or fast to me. The heaviest/best AR15's in 5.56 that are setup for fighting is the Sopmod Block II which weighs around 12 pounds with optics/lights/lasers. Now 12 pounds loaded is very heavy imo for a 5.56 carbine, but the guys who have them say it balances very well. For someone like me and you I can see how a variable with a red dot can add well over a pound, but it wont be "ridiculous" like you said. My AR with a scope weighs 11 pounds and if you add a small RMR red dot it would be like 11.4 pounds. Once again it boils down to training and also working out with your carbine like hiking or hunting. |
| I feel as though although low variable are good at close quarters/defensive situations, wouldn't want something that is great such as a t1? But what if you also want something that you can reach out with? Like say for instance someone in asscrackistan...they need to shoot far, but they may need to shoot close. They dont want to have to keep switching optics, but def want to make sure they have the best setup for every scenario. Does that mean running two optics? Variables def sacrifice a little bit at close quarters, maybe not much, but that little bit is huge considering close quarters engagements are far more crucial part to make sure you are well equiped. |
| The paratrooper M249 weighs 15 pounds. It was an exaggeration of course. I apologize if that wasn't clear. The point remains though - big rail system, light, laser, 2 optics, etc makes for quite a heavy carbine - effectively nullifying part of the purpose of having a carbine in the first place in my opinion. My M4 in Afghanistan weighed as much as the paratrooper SAW I was assigned. But it had a light, PEQ-15, M203 (where most of it came from), and a Leupold 2.5-8 MR/T on it. |
|
Quoted: The paratrooper M249 weighs 15 pounds. It was an exaggeration of course. I apologize if that wasn't clear. The point remains though - big rail system, light, laser, 2 optics, etc makes for quite a heavy carbine - effectively nullifying part of the purpose of having a carbine in the first place in my opinion. My M4 in Afghanistan weighed as much as the paratrooper SAW I was assigned. But it had a light, PEQ-15, M203 (where most of it came from), and a Leupold 2.5-8 MR/T on it. |
|
Quoted:
Why is this optic so expensive?!? http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-CQBSS-1-1-8x24-Rifle-112564/dp/B0066AUZPI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_2 Quoted:
Quoted:
Leupold Mark 8 CQBSS 1x8 Why is this optic so expensive?!? http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-CQBSS-1-1-8x24-Rifle-112564/dp/B0066AUZPI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_2 the glass is pretty nice but the FOV is horrible.. used one this weekend.. |
|
Quoted:
+1 Quoted:
Quoted:
Aimpoint for fighting rifle. Scope for hunting. Yup Or if you are in open terrain where a likely fighting distance is greater than 300 meters. Then I prefer 308 and some magnification. What is "best" always "depends" So the right answer is of course get both. |
|
Quoted: if I only need magnification when I take my gun out to the range or desert, would I be better off just getting a variable of some sort and then running it and my t1 on a qd mount? |
|
Quoted:
None of the Above... Elcan for the WIN!!! <a href="http://s191.photobucket.com/user/RugerDuger/media/2ffe6ac8-6995-4b34-9b88-31323b72e43c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z137/RugerDuger/2ffe6ac8-6995-4b34-9b88-31323b72e43c.jpg</a> Enjoy that one year warranty and short battery life! Elcans are sweet though |
|
Quoted:
Enjoy that one year warranty and short battery life! Elcans are sweet though Quoted:
Quoted:
None of the Above... Elcan for the WIN!!! <a href="http://s191.photobucket.com/user/RugerDuger/media/2ffe6ac8-6995-4b34-9b88-31323b72e43c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z137/RugerDuger/2ffe6ac8-6995-4b34-9b88-31323b72e43c.jpg</a> Enjoy that one year warranty and short battery life! Elcans are sweet though Neither concern me. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - best optic setup (Page 1 of 3)
AR Sponsor