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Posted: 3/31/2013 1:29:33 PM EDT
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I have a basic understanding of the variances between the two but what are the practical differences when shooting long range.
Who here that has experience with both can comment? Which would you prefer in, say, a 3-9x scope for medium (300m) to long range (500m)? |
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I like FFP because I don't have to think about how the magnification is affecting the ticks on the reticle. Conversely, I don't like FFP because the reticle lines are thinner are lower magnification and thicker at higher magnification. SFP doesn't have this issue but requires a little mental math to know how far apart the ticks or dots on the reticle are (in miliradians or MOA) with the current mag setting. If the SFP scope has a range finding reticle, the ticks are only valid at a specific mag value unless you've worked out the differences (range vs. drop). It's a trade off either way but right now I prefer FFP. |
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FFP reticle subtends at all magnifications, whereas SFP doesn't, you need to range at a specific power on a SFP. The reticle in FFP scales in size as the power of the scope increases or decreases, so you're holdovers are a constant, a SFP the reticle stays the same size some might say it makes it easer to see at all magnifications. I prefer FFP, I tend to shoot a bit longer distances, as a strictly 300 to 500M scope the difference won't become as apparent. |
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You really don't need FFP if you can do math. SFP will usually get you better glass at a lower price. If you are shooting at known distances most of the time, SFP will suffice. If your ranging all the time go with FFP. Not sure of your budget but you should look into the new Vortex PST 2.5-10x32mm. They also have an older(few bucks cheaper) SFP version with 44mm objective. Both good scopes for the money.
ETA: If you are on a tight budget, go with less options. You will be better off with a simple 3-9x40mm for $150 than a scope with tactical turrets, illumination, FFP, zero stop, AO/side focus, etc. for the same price. |
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Quoted:
I've got a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with the z600 on the way. I haven't checked yet to see if it's first or second plane. It's SFP. Some of you are missing the boat. It's not about being able to range at any magnification. That's just a bonus. How many people actually range with their scopes when we have laser range finders these days. The major benefit is hold overs and unders are the same at any power level. Whether you hunt or shoot comps, you don't have time to do a bunch of unesscessary math. A FFP scope is better in every aspect except one. The reticle is pretty small on the lowest power. Still not a big deal though. |
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Quoted:
If you're using your reticle for holdover and it's SFP, you can either pick a magnification and leave it there for consistency or get an app like iStrelok that gives you holdovers at varying magnifications. That will work fine if you shoot on a manicured "golf course" like range all the time. Its just one more thing that you have to keep track of. Lets say you have a 5x-25x power scope that is SFP. You have a different holdover chart for 10x, 15x, and for 25x. Lets also say you have the scope set on 25x and a target appears at 75 yards. Your first action is to dial down in magnification to gain an acceptable field of view. Next you have to find the correct DOPE chart that corresponds to that magnification level. Then I have to get back in the scope find the target again (if its still there), apply the right holdover/ under because my zero may not be at 100 yards and squeeze the trigger. This is true at a 75 yard target if you have the turret dialed into anything other than your 100 yard "zero". With a FFP reticle I don't ever have to take my eye off the scope. Target appears and I dial down magnification without taking my line of sight out of the scope. I can do this because it doesn't matter what power I'm on as long as my field of view is acceptable. Now I have to apply a holdover/under. I still dont need to take my eye off the scope because I only have 1 DOPE chart and I have it memorized. Next, squeeze the trigger. This same situation can happen if your scope is set on a low power and a target appears at say 500 yards. Except now its worse because you have the wind holds to contend with too. Now, does everyone need FFP? Probably not. But that fact does not take away from the fact that a FFP reticle is better than a SFP reticle in almost every aspect. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If you're using your reticle for holdover and it's SFP, you can either pick a magnification and leave it there for consistency or get an app like iStrelok that gives you holdovers at varying magnifications. That will work fine if you shoot on a manicured "golf course" like range all the time. Its just one more thing that you have to keep track of. Lets say you have a 5x-25x power scope that is SFP. You have a different holdover chart for 10x, 15x, and for 25x. Lets also say you have the scope set on 25x and a target appears at 75 yards. Your first action is to dial down in magnification to gain an acceptable field of view. Next you have to find the correct DOPE chart that corresponds to that magnification level. Then I have to get back in the scope find the target again (if its still there), apply the right holdover/ under because my zero may not be at 100 yards and squeeze the trigger. This is true at a 75 yard target if you have the turret dialed into anything other than your 100 yard "zero". With a FFP reticle I don't ever have to take my eye off the scope. Target appears and I dial down magnification without taking my line of sight out of the scope. I can do this because it doesn't matter what power I'm on as long as my field of view is acceptable. Now I have to apply a holdover/under. I still dont need to take my eye off the scope because I only have 1 DOPE chart and I have it memorized. Next, squeeze the trigger. This same situation can happen if your scope is set on a low power and a target appears at say 500 yards. Except now its worse because you have the wind holds to contend with too. Now, does everyone need FFP? Probably not. But that fact does not take away from the fact that a FFP reticle is better than a SFP reticle in almost every aspect. I'm sure it is. I was just pointing out a couple options if you do have a SFP scope. |
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Quoted:
I'm sure it is. I was just pointing out a couple options if you do have a SFP scope. Sorry my intent was not to direct it towards you. I think there are a lot of people who don't understand FFP scopes partly because they are a relatively new concept in North America. Then, there are those who just don't want to accept the advantages because their grandpappy always used a SFP and if it was good enough for him... |
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Another really big problem with SFP scopes isn't so much that you have to worry about what hold you have at 5x power instead of the max of say 10x but just where is 5x and how do I know if I am on it? Just because a manufacture SAYS each click is X per MOA or Mil, or that the dial on the power rings SAYS it's on 5x doesn't make it so. The ONLY reliably accurate way to determine when you are on say half power of a 10x scope is to mil a target (with a Mil-dot-reticle) and then double it by manipulating the power setting.
Now, lets just say that target is 1m tall and is 2mil high (500m away), quick, in your head, tell me, what size should that target appear to be in mils on 5x power? No, hurry, hurry, he's shooting at us, hurry, ohhhhh shit, I just got shot............ Or, if you prefer, it's an elk walking out of your field of view and now you are hungry..... but wait, how tall is that elk again, ohh, yeah, I don't know for sure, I am just estimating it to be 1m....... See, with a FFP, you don't have any of that stuff, you just range estimate, dial the power to an acceptable FOV, hold or dial range, then hold for wind and shoot. WAY less to think about and remarkably faster. And as far as all of that manufacturer error stuff, that is just another reason to get a reticle that is etched with your holds with a prescision laser (IE Horus) instead of dialing range.... Just my .02 though, not that I know what the hell I am talking about........ |
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