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Posted: 3/24/2013 6:46:14 AM EDT
| Hey Guys!!! I'm new to the site. I've been floating around the website for a while reading topics and finally just joined. I need some help. A month ago I bought my first AR. I bought a Black Rain Ordnance PG5. But now I need help from anyone who knows scopes a lot. I will be mainly using this gun for varmint hunting. The scope I have been looking at is this one: http://www.laruetactical.com/leupold-mark-4-45-14x50mm-lrt-m1-illuminated-tmr-reticle-scope-larue-tactical-spr-mount-67965-lt104 I have always been a huge Leupold fan. That's the only brand of scope I've ever bought. Leupolds are on my other rifles. I am open to other scopes around this price range. I'd like an illuminated reticle, and at least up to 14x max magnification. I want a good quality scope because IMO optics are not something to skimp on. Of anyone has any experience with these Mark 4 Leupolds please let me know your thoughts. I know there are differences between M1, M2 and M3 but I'm new to this so I don't really understand the significance. I also heard elsewhere that this scope has a small FOV compared to other models around this price range. Those are my first concerns with this riflescope. I will be more than glad and happy to receive your guys' thoughts and opinions. Please just don't make this a bashing session about the AR I chose or my lack of knowledge. I just want some guidance, thoughts, opinions about this scope and others out there! This seems like this is a good forum where I can learn a lot and also help others once I become more knowledgeable. Thanks for your understanding in advance everybody!!! Hope everyone has a great last day of the weekend!!!! |
| It sounds to me you already have your mind made up. Personally I also don't understand your mindset. $1500 for scope is just ridiculous in my opinion. I am NOT bashing in any way shape or form. I try to logically understand the benefits of the scope you looking at, but I don't see one. I guess it is like comparing cars like for myself I have a Corvette alright so I guess for some people to justify buying a Corvette makes no sense. so it's a preference at this point.. I personally have a Nikon on my AR. I truly love the scope and truthfully I had a hard time justifying paying 200 for it. I purchased it because I'm able to hit targets at the 600 yard mark. The nikon has the BDC and very clear lens. I personally would use 1300 dollars towards buying ammunition to practice my skills with the AR 15. I truly wish you the best of luck if you purchase it let us know how it turns out for you. congratulations on the AR 15... |
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It sounds to me you already have your mind made up. Personally I also don't understand your mindset. $1500 for scope is just ridiculous in my opinion. I am NOT bashing in any way shape or form. I try to logically understand the benefits of the scope you looking at, but I don't see one. I guess it is like comparing cars like for myself I have a Corvette alright so I guess for some people to justify buying a Corvette makes no sense. so it's a preference at this point.. I personally have a Nikon on my AR. I truly love the scope and truthfully I had a hard time justifying paying 200 for it. I purchased it because I'm able to hit targets at the 600 yard mark. The nikon has the BDC and very clear lens. I personally would use 1300 dollars towards buying ammunition to practice my skills with the AR 15. I truly wish you the best of luck if you purchase it let us know how it turns out for you. congratulations on the AR 15... Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Mind isn't made up, that's the problem lol. If anyone has suggestions to other types or has experience with the Leupold Mark 4's and in particular the illuminated tmr reticle, I'm all ears  and I totally get what your saying about where people like to spend there money. It is all preference and to each their own lol.
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| I have a leupold mark AR 3-9x40 mil dot on my 223 AR in a larue mount and I never regret it. You don't need more than 9 power on a 223, and you don't need a 50mm objective. Leupold vx-2 4-12x50 on my ar10 and often i wish i would have gotten another mark ar. Costs 1/3 of the setup you are looking at and is just about perfect. |
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I have a leupold mark AR 3-9x40 mil dot on my 223 AR in a larue mount and I never regret it. You don't need more than 9 power on a 223, and you don't need a 50mm objective. Leupold vx-2 4-12x50 on my ar10 and often i wish i would have gotten another mark ar. Costs 1/3 of the setup you are looking at and is just about perfect. Thanks Dan. Exactly the input I was looking for. Greatly appreciated. Can you expand why I don't need more than 9 power and don't need a 50mm objective?!?! Thanks. |
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Not sure why you want a tactical scope for varmint hunting??? I'd go more power with for starters. Vermin are smaller than deer and humans. More details on what/how you're shooting would help.
http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x50-VX-3-30mm-Riflescope-P12738.aspx |
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Not sure why you want a tactical scope for varmint hunting??? I'd go more power with for starters. Vermin are smaller than deer and humans. More details on what/how you're shooting would help. http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x50-VX-3-30mm-Riflescope-P12738.aspx Thanks for the comment. I thought a lot of people used tactical scopes for varmint hunting!?!?? :/ As far as the details-what/how ill be shooting is will vary from which part of the state I will be hunting. Flats, to rolling hills, to mountains etc. Usually sitting down with shooting sticks or a bipod and having a electronic call set out 100-200 yards in front of me. If there are any specifics you want to know, feel free to ask. Thanks. As for that scope....its out for me. Id like it to have an illuminated reticle. |
I too have my first AR and tried to mount a scope I had on another rifle.......10x40x50. For the objective to clear I had to go with xtra high rings which put the scope to high to zero in. Either I am going to have to get a different scope or order a mount with +10 -10 shims to give me the 20 deg. I need to sight in without using up all my travel. I will be watchi9ng this post...sorry I couldnt give you any help but I am learning too. 
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Quoted: How about a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x? Might want to check it out and search the kinds of reviews the Viper gets. I was going to suggest the same thing. The new PST scopes are the cat's ass. They have a 4-16x50 FFP (Front Focal Plane - so the reticle scales with magnification which means the subtensions are always to scale;great for ranging targets) for about $1k and and 4-16x50 SFP for $800. Take a look at these. The PST 2.5-10's have been getting lots of good reviews. You could also look into a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50. NF's are tanks and optical quality is extremely good. These run around $1600 on opticsplanet, you might be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. The only bad thing about this scope is that it's SFP. I almost bought a NF 2.5-10 MOAR before the PST 2.5-10x32 reviews started coming in. |
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How about a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x? Might want to check it out and search the kinds of reviews the Viper gets. I was going to suggest the same thing. The new PST scopes are the cat's ass. They have a 4-16x50 FFP (Front Focal Plane - so the reticle scales with magnification which means the subtensions are always to scale;great for ranging targets) for about $1k and and 4-16x50 SFP for $800. Take a look at these. The PST 2.5-10's have been getting lots of good reviews. You could also look into a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50. NF's are tanks and optical quality is extremely good. These run around $1600 on opticsplanet, you might be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. The only bad thing about this scope is that it's SFP. I almost bought a NF 2.5-10 MOAR before the PST 2.5-10x32 reviews started coming in. I have been researching all day yesterday and some today of the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x! You say the reviews of the PST 2.5-10x32 have good reviews, what about the PST 4-16x?? Everything I have read is that they used to have some issues but it seems like Vortex has resolved any issues! What are you guys' seeing for reviews? I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on this scope. I am very intrigued by this scope and am leaning towards buying this one. Just need to make an infromative decision! Again, thanks guys for all the suggestions and comments. I truly appreciate it! Great forum with great people! |
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Not sure why you want a tactical scope for varmint hunting??? I'd go more power with for starters. Vermin are smaller than deer and humans. More details on what/how you're shooting would help. http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x50-VX-3-30mm-Riflescope-P12738.aspx Thanks for the comment. I thought a lot of people used tactical scopes for varmint hunting!?!?? :/ As far as the details-what/how ill be shooting is will vary from which part of the state I will be hunting. Flats, to rolling hills, to mountains etc. Usually sitting down with shooting sticks or a bipod and having a electronic call set out 100-200 yards in front of me. If there are any specifics you want to know, feel free to ask. Thanks. As for that scope....its out for me. Id like it to have an illuminated reticle. You can use a tactical for hunting. I was just suggesting that you might desire a different reticle for your purposes. I would just go with more power. The PST 6-24x50mm FFP MOA/MOA would be my choice since you seem to be interested in Vortex. I own several Vortex scopes and they are great for the money. If money was no object there are other scopes I would choose. |
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How about a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x? Might want to check it out and search the kinds of reviews the Viper gets. I was going to suggest the same thing. The new PST scopes are the cat's ass. They have a 4-16x50 FFP (Front Focal Plane - so the reticle scales with magnification which means the subtensions are always to scale;great for ranging targets) for about $1k and and 4-16x50 SFP for $800. Take a look at these. The PST 2.5-10's have been getting lots of good reviews. You could also look into a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50. NF's are tanks and optical quality is extremely good. These run around $1600 on opticsplanet, you might be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. The only bad thing about this scope is that it's SFP. I almost bought a NF 2.5-10 MOAR before the PST 2.5-10x32 reviews started coming in. This gets me hot and bothered. 
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I use my AR's for varmit hunting all the time, and the illuminated recticle is nice. For your needs I would look at the Leupold VX-R 3-9x40mm, its a nice scope.
Also think about this. You only have one rifle, so buy the VX-R and get a Larue mount. Then get an Eotech and a Laure mount. You can swap configurations of your rifle in an instant and you have saved money over the Leupold Mark scope. |
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Quoted: I use my AR's for varmit hunting all the time, and the illuminated recticle is nice. For your needs I would look at the Leupold VX-R 3-9x40mm, its a nice scope. Also think about this. You only have one rifle, so buy the VX-R and get a Larue mount. Then get an Eotech and a Laure mount. You can swap configurations of your rifle in an instant and you have saved money over the Leupold Mark scope.  What you suggested would be at least $1400...  Second, if I/You/Op had that much dough lying around it would be much smarter, IMO, to spend it on 1 outstanding optic instead of 1 good and 1 mediocre optic. Obvious choices would be an IOR 1-10 or 1.5-8, or a US Optics 1.5-6 or 1-8. In fact, I would suggest saving a little more and getting a USO 1.5-6 DFP because it works as a RDS and also has an FFP BDC reticle. Also, If I wanted 2 QD scope mounts to hold zeros for interchangeability, I'd get Bobros. As a bonus, you'd also look like you know what you're doing with 1 optic. 2 optics would make you look like a couch ninja with more $ & toys than sense, IMO. ------------------ My 2.5-10 PST is due on Thursday. I have an extended Bobro due in from another source without an ETA yet. It doesn't matter though cause we got 10" of snow over the weekend (WTF, It's Spring!?!?) so I won't be shooting for a little while. I think the 4-16 PST's have been out for a couple years. The early reviews had some issues, but I haven't seen any recent reviews. Given Vortex' reputation and the price of this scope vs comparables, I'd say buy one from SWFA or some other decent vendor. If you don't like it or find that the reticle is canted, you can send it back (one of the early reviewers had a scope where the reticle was misaligned w/r/t the elevation knob by about 1.5 degrees, so the scope would transit slightly left-right as you changed elevation. Granted, the misalignment was so slight that you probably wouldn't notice it unless you were shooting long range (400+) consistently and had another platform for comparison.) |
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I use my AR's for varmit hunting all the time, and the illuminated recticle is nice. For your needs I would look at the Leupold VX-R 3-9x40mm, its a nice scope. Also think about this. You only have one rifle, so buy the VX-R and get a Larue mount. Then get an Eotech and a Laure mount. You can swap configurations of your rifle in an instant and you have saved money over the Leupold Mark scope. http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002760907/1512213484_21883255_answer_2_xlarge.png What you suggested would be at least $1400...
Second, if I/You/Op had that much dough lying around it would be much smarter, IMO, to spend it on 1 outstanding optic instead of 1 good and 1 mediocre optic. Obvious choices would be an IOR 1-10 or 1.5-8, or a US Optics 1.5-6 or 1-8. In fact, I would suggest saving a little more and getting a USO 1.5-6 DFP because it works as a RDS and also has an FFP BDC reticle.
Also, If I wanted 2 QD scope mounts to hold zeros for interchangeability, I'd get Bobros. As a bonus, you'd also look like you know what you're doing with 1 optic. 2 optics would make you look like a couch ninja with more $ & toys than sense, IMO. ------------------ My 2.5-10 PST is due on Thursday. I have an extended Bobro due in from another source without an ETA yet. It doesn't matter though cause we got 10" of snow over the weekend (WTF, It's Spring!?!?) so I won't be shooting for a little while. I think the 4-16 PST's have been out for a couple years. The early reviews had some issues, but I haven't seen any recent reviews. Given Vortex' reputation and the price of this scope vs comparables, I'd say buy one from SWFA or some other decent vendor. If you don't like it or find that the reticle is canted, you can send it back (one of the early reviewers had a scope where the reticle was misaligned w/r/t the elevation knob by about 1.5 degrees, so the scope would transit slightly left-right as you changed elevation. Granted, the misalignment was so slight that you probably wouldn't notice it unless you were shooting long range (400+) consistently and had another platform for comparison.) +1 on the Bobro. (and this is coming from a guy who is wearing a Larue hat, and just got a H1/660 combo last week) If I need a mount, and Bobro makes it, that's what I get. Especially if it's getting taken on and off much at all. |
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I use my AR's for varmit hunting all the time, and the illuminated recticle is nice. For your needs I would look at the Leupold VX-R 3-9x40mm, its a nice scope. Also think about this. You only have one rifle, so buy the VX-R and get a Larue mount. Then get an Eotech and a Laure mount. You can swap configurations of your rifle in an instant and you have saved money over the Leupold Mark scope. http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002760907/1512213484_21883255_answer_2_xlarge.png What you suggested would be at least $1400...
Second, if I/You/Op had that much dough lying around it would be much smarter, IMO, to spend it on 1 outstanding optic instead of 1 good and 1 mediocre optic. Obvious choices would be an IOR 1-10 or 1.5-8, or a US Optics 1.5-6 or 1-8. In fact, I would suggest saving a little more and getting a USO 1.5-6 DFP because it works as a RDS and also has an FFP BDC reticle.
Also, If I wanted 2 QD scope mounts to hold zeros for interchangeability, I'd get Bobros. As a bonus, you'd also look like you know what you're doing with 1 optic. 2 optics would make you look like a couch ninja with more $ & toys than sense, IMO. ------------------ My 2.5-10 PST is due on Thursday. I have an extended Bobro due in from another source without an ETA yet. It doesn't matter though cause we got 10" of snow over the weekend (WTF, It's Spring!?!?) so I won't be shooting for a little while. I think the 4-16 PST's have been out for a couple years. The early reviews had some issues, but I haven't seen any recent reviews. Given Vortex' reputation and the price of this scope vs comparables, I'd say buy one from SWFA or some other decent vendor. If you don't like it or find that the reticle is canted, you can send it back (one of the early reviewers had a scope where the reticle was misaligned w/r/t the elevation knob by about 1.5 degrees, so the scope would transit slightly left-right as you changed elevation. Granted, the misalignment was so slight that you probably wouldn't notice it unless you were shooting long range (400+) consistently and had another platform for comparison.) UUUHHH the scope the OP was looking at is1459.00. So yes he would save money. Also I think you missed the part about changing configurations. You must have used the 2 optic setup before to even think that. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I use my AR's for varmit hunting all the time, and the illuminated recticle is nice. For your needs I would look at the Leupold VX-R 3-9x40mm, its a nice scope. Also think about this. You only have one rifle, so buy the VX-R and get a Larue mount. Then get an Eotech and a Laure mount. You can swap configurations of your rifle in an instant and you have saved money over the Leupold Mark scope. http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002760907/1512213484_21883255_answer_2_xlarge.png What you suggested would be at least $1400... Second, if I/You/Op had that much dough lying around it would be much smarter, IMO, to spend it on 1 outstanding optic instead of 1 good and 1 mediocre optic. Obvious choices would be an IOR 1-10 or 1.5-8, or a US Optics 1.5-6 or 1-8. In fact, I would suggest saving a little more and getting a USO 1.5-6 DFP because it works as a RDS and also has an FFP BDC reticle. Also, If I wanted 2 QD scope mounts to hold zeros for interchangeability, I'd get Bobros. As a bonus, you'd also look like you know what you're doing with 1 optic. 2 optics would make you look like a couch ninja with more $ & toys than sense, IMO. ------------------ My 2.5-10 PST is due on Thursday. I have an extended Bobro due in from another source without an ETA yet. It doesn't matter though cause we got 10" of snow over the weekend (WTF, It's Spring!?!?) so I won't be shooting for a little while. I think the 4-16 PST's have been out for a couple years. The early reviews had some issues, but I haven't seen any recent reviews. Given Vortex' reputation and the price of this scope vs comparables, I'd say buy one from SWFA or some other decent vendor. If you don't like it or find that the reticle is canted, you can send it back (one of the early reviewers had a scope where the reticle was misaligned w/r/t the elevation knob by about 1.5 degrees, so the scope would transit slightly left-right as you changed elevation. Granted, the misalignment was so slight that you probably wouldn't notice it unless you were shooting long range (400+) consistently and had another platform for comparison.) UUUHHH the scope the OP was looking at is1459.00. So yes he would save money. Also I think you missed the part about changing configurations. You must have used the 2 optic setup before to even think that.  I have not used a 2 optic setup. I realize that you meant 2 separate platforms with QD mounts, and not a 45 deg offset with both. Actually, a micro RDS on top of the VX-R or on a 45o mount would be preferable because you wouldn't be swapping mounts and trying to hold zero. The Eotech would be fine, but the magnified optic would move and it would affect POI enough that it matters if you're varmint hunting, like the op. Still, I think I'd prefer a 1.5-6 or 1-8 over a primary/offset mount configuration, but I've never tried either. I'm an engineer, and I tend to follow Occam's advice; simpler is usually better. ----------- OP, Is this your first rifle, or just first AR? Also, at what range do you plan on engaging these vicious beasts? Are we talking tree rats outside your bedroom or groundhogs across a field? Shootem has a point. $1400 is a lot of money for anything. There are certainly decent scopes for less. I'm not a leupold fan myself; I've tried but I don't like them for some reason. I don't like Chevy's either-I drive a Subaru, fwiw, because I prefer to stay out of ditches in the winter. If you want a decent scope, $5-800 should be able to net you something delightful. However, if you plan on shooting groundhogs at 3-400 yards, you'll definitely need quality optics, and some shooting acumen. My vote is still the PST 4-16x50 for value. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, look at a Nightforce NXS 3-15, or a US Optics LR-17 if you need to spend more. If you want a semi-permanent scope mount (not QD) the Burris PEPR mount has lots of fans and the new SWFA SSALT mount is making a decent splash. US Optics has a thick Single Point Ring (SPR) that is interesting. It's 2" wide, I think, and is meant to take the place of 2 regular scope rings. Seems very solid and it would be a cool, unusual but reliable mount. I'd get one if I didn't want a Bobro. I've got an Eotech on my other AR and the FTS magnifier thing is getting old. If I can ever rebuild by savings, I may swap my xps and magnifier for a NF 1-4 or one of the USO 1-6s. |
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Hey man I was in your shoes years ago trying to get the perfect optic for predator hunting, which it looks like you are doing.........I have settled on a trijicon TR-24 1-4x after trying everything from red dots to higher power scopes. When I call coyotes/bobcats/fox etc....I find most of my shots are within 100 yards with shots over 200 yards pretty rare, thats the whole point right? get them in as close as you can?? Anyway, with the accupoint I can use it as a red dot when they show up close and crank it up to 4x for the longer shots when they hang up, I have NO problem nailing a coyote at 100-150 yards on 4x maginification. Good luck with your search!!!
P.S. bring that call in a little closer you you say 50 yards and maybe you will bring them in a little closer, they will go where the sound is and if you put it out 100-200 yards, that is where they will end up!! |
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