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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Optic for HD/SHTF (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/19/2012 9:44:12 PM EDT
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I am in between the EoTech 512 and Aimpoint PRO for my new rifle which is a PSA 14.7" with pinned flash hider. This will be my first optic I have bought for an AR as my other rifle has an A2 upper. I know the EoTech vs. Aimpoint question comes up a lot and I hate to ask it again but I really am not sure which one I want. I have handled a rifle with a Eotech on it before but did not get a chance to shoot it. There's really no dealers of Aimpoint or EoTech nearby for me to go and look at each of these. Are both of these easy to shoot with both eyes open? I know your supposed to shoot a red dot with both eyes open but is there a difference in sighting down the tube of an Aimpont vs looking through the hologram in an EoTech? I guess I'm thinking as far as in cramped quarters of a house or in a hallway. Which one would you go to if SHTF or in a home defense situation? Sorry for all the questions.
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| no problems with question thats how you learn, either one will work there both really rugged if you look up "eotech shot" on google you see an eotech still running with a hole through the screen. same with the aimpoint. Now battery life is something important in HD and SHTF and the aimpoint is better hands down but you are paying hundred plus more for a Pro over a 512 its up to you with CQ Eotech has faster target acquistion than the aimpoint. I like the bigger screen personally of the eotech and that why I have one over an AImpoint. |
| Both are good, some people like the large reticle of the EoTech and some people like the simple small dot of the Aimpoint. The EoTech is a reflex style sight while the Aimpoint has the tube. I personally love my Aimpoints the best. I do own a EoTech as well, but I just don't like it nearly as much. I find I'm more accurate with my Aimpoints and I can leave it on and not worry about the battery life for years. While EoTech's battery life is shorter and I hate the on/off buttons on it. I have friends that love their EoTech's though, they feel they are faster with it, they like the larger reticle and reflex style. I just got a new Aimpoint Micro T-1 which is very lightweight, hate it costs a bit more, but it's my favorite red dot optic for sure. |
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I have an XPS OPMOD Eotech (from optics planet), my good buddy has an aimpoint PRO. Honestly? Both are good, both work. They're pretty nice.
The whole "toilet paper tube" thing concerning aimpoints is greatly overblown, I say that as an eotech guy. I run fixed rear sight and I have a standard FSB on my gun, if the battery dies on the gun or I "don't have time to get it on" in a hypothetical HD/SHTF scenario it's not a dead-in-the-water predicament. The aimpoint, due to its obscenely good battery life is left on has a folded down BUIS behind it. This is how I would run each optic ^ They both work. That said I would buy one of the new CQB T-dot models if I was going Eotech today: 
Bottom of the reticle is for 7 yards. Honestly I'd try to get my hands on both and look through them if you can't decide by the end of this thread 
If you can't decide after that, flip a coin! |
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I've owned/used both. As much as I prefer the Eotech's circle-dot reticle, since this is for possible HD my vote is for the Aimpoint.
Aimpoint has insane battery life (not a huge factor for civvie use, but still a factor), more ergonomic controls (try waking up suddenly at O-dark thirty and then trying to hit the Eotech's control buttons quickly while stressed, whereas the Aimpoint can be left on 24/7 literally for years and the rotary knob is faster/easier to adjust) and the Aimpoint has fewer reported problems. JMHO... Tomac |
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As a user of and previous owner of both. I go with EOtech because i dont like tubes when dealing with zero magnification. The best answer is to try both out and see what you like. Maybe you're a reflex kinda guy, maybe you prefer the tube. As others have stated, aimpoints have much longer battery life in a "turn it on leave it on" challenge. With that said, I've never changed a battery in a single one of my eotechs. The oldest is 3 years. |
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OP: Aimpoint for reliability and battery life. Has anyone claiming one to be faster than the other ever put each optic on the same rifle shooting the same ammo and then run some drills on a timer? The guys in the Special Forces pic thread here running the lower-battery-life Eotechs on their guns prrroooooobably have a good reason for doing so 
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Has EoTech fixed the problems with their battery compartment? I read somewhere that on the 5xx models some have had batteries leak in the compartment. I've "heard" that this has been solved with later production sights. They also came out with the traverse battery Eotechs which seem to be good. Fishing in my memory here- those don't seem to like being battered around by heavy recoil due to the fact that the battery is sideways relative to the recoil impulse. I have an XPS series sight, but I'm not sure I'd run one on a Barrett M82
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They are both "reflex" sights. That is a term for all 1x red dots.
A lot of SF dudes use the Eotech because that is what is issued. There are some that prefer Aimpoints (since I've sold a few to some group guys it leads me to assume they prefer them.) I've never understood how people have a problem with Aimpoints being a tube. Forget it's a tube and just look for the dot. I tried an Eotech but fount it slower for me than Aimpoimts so I sold it and bought an M4s instead. I also have some experience with how durable they are seeing them get bounced around vehicles and walls. Mostly a personal preference as long as you have a newer Eotech with the updated springs and battery compartment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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They are both "reflex" sights. That is a term for all 1x red dots. A lot of SF dudes use the Eotech because that is what is issued. There are some that prefer Aimpoints (since I've sold a few to some group guys it leads me to assume they prefer them.) I've never understood how people have a problem with Aimpoints being a tube. Forget it's a tube and just look for the dot. I tried an Eotech but fount it slower for me than Aimpoimts so I sold it and bought an M4s instead. I also have some experience with how durable they are seeing them get bounced around vehicles and walls. Mostly a personal preference as long as you have a newer Eotech with the updated springs and battery compartment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Are you saying the Aimpoints are more durable when bounced around? Will the Aimpont still function even when the glass is shattered like the EoTech? Can anyone comment on the co-witness question? |
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Also I forgot to ask, does the mount the PRO comes with provide an absolute co-witness or lower 1/3? This is somthing I was wanting was to be able to use my rear rear BUIS and FSB along with the dot in the same sight line. Thanks The QRP2 mount that comes with the PRO provides an absolute Co-witness when mounted on an AR. |
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Both are great sights. EOTech offer a fancier reticle, versus the huge battery life of the aimpoint. Also a patrol optic versus a SHTF optic have to play by different rules. A patrol optic will probably be getting daily or weekly battery changes, a SHTF optic may have to eek out on the same battery for years and years because you cant find a replacement.
Personally, for piece of mind I prefer the aimpoint. Turn it on, leave it on, and forget about it. I run a C3 so I have a 5-year battery life versus the 3-year of a PRO. Just change the battery once every election and don't sweat about it. Now, if you don't ever want to deal with any of this battery nonsense ever again, get yourself a 1.5x ACOG with the circle-dot reticle and enjoy an optic that can put iron sights to shame as far as durability. |
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Now, if you don't ever want to deal with any of this battery nonsense ever again, get yourself a 1.5x ACOG with the circle-dot reticle and enjoy an optic that can put iron sights to shame as far as durability. ...and wash out to the point of invisibility if you're in a dark area and the target is in a lit area (I've done it with an amber reticle TA01NSN). 
For home defense, unless you're sure that you'll have the time and the presence of mind to turn on an EOTech, it's Aimpoint all the way. Even then, there seem to be fewer problems wth Aimpoints versus EOTechs. I do like the EOTech's reticle. I've used Aimpoints, EOTechs, and ACOGs. Each is great in its own way. On my own carbine, I use an Aimpoint (Micro T1). |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm kind of gathering is the "tube effect" supposedly associated with the Aimpoint is false because you still shoot with both eyes open? But at the same time some people are faster with one than the other.
Another question: when shooting at 100yds what do the reticles look like on a human sized target? Does the EoTech circle and dot look "busy"? Also, would an Aimpoint dot cover up a smaller target like a 10" plate because it's a 2 MOA dot? Thanks again |
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I have a newly aquired Aimpoint Pro. I have not had a chance to sight it in yet. It has a 2MOA dot. At 100 yards it should cover approximatley 2 inches of the target. 4 inches at 200 yards etc. A 4 MOA dot would cover 4 inches at 100 yards. That makes sense thanks for your help. Will the 2 MOA dot vs 1MOA of the EoTech make sighting in any harder at 50 yards? |
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I have a newly aquired Aimpoint Pro. I have not had a chance to sight it in yet. It has a 2MOA dot. At 100 yards it should cover approximatley 2 inches of the target. 4 inches at 200 yards etc. A 4 MOA dot would cover 4 inches at 100 yards. That makes sense thanks for your help. Will the 2 MOA dot vs 1MOA of the EoTech make sighting in any harder at 50 yards? I really don't see how it would. Your 1MOA dot will cover 1/2 an inch of your 50 yard target. 2 MOA will cover 1 inch of target. Approximately. For defensive purposes your red dot type scope is built for speed, not precision work. That's not to say it's not capable of fine accuracy at longer distances just not ideal. Within a vital zone size target is "good enough" |
| Hey op have you looked at trijicon acog's? No batteries needed and is a proven combat scope, plus with the smaller 1.5 acog it is ideal for home defense. Another reason i suggest acog is because you could have astigmatism and not know it so red dots and holo sights would look blurry compared to the reticle on an acog. |
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Hey op have you looked at trijicon acog's? No batteries needed and is a proven combat scope, plus with the smaller 1.5 acog it is ideal for home defense. Another reason i suggest acog is because you could have astigmatism and not know it so red dots and holo sights would look blurry compared to the reticle on an acog. Or a Trijicon TR24? 1-4 would be a decent choice. They are fast on 1x. I have a viper PST 1-4 and find it just as quick as a red dot. |
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Hey op have you looked at trijicon acog's? No batteries needed and is a proven combat scope, plus with the smaller 1.5 acog it is ideal for home defense. Another reason i suggest acog is because you could have astigmatism and not know it so red dots and holo sights would look blurry compared to the reticle on an acog. I have not looked at ACOG's I think there probably a little bit out of my price range unfortunately. It's really between the Aimpoint PRO and EoTech 512. I leaning more toward the PRO though. |
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How is the mount that comes with the PRO? I saw a YouTube video where they guy reviewing it talked about how the knob that locks the mount to the upper is similar to a gas tank cap on a car. It reduces the risk of damaging the rail due to over tightening the mount. Is the mount pretty solid? Is there any need to locktite the threads on the mount or does the knob lock it securely in place?
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How is the mount that comes with the PRO? I saw a YouTube video where they guy reviewing it talked about how the knob that locks the mount to the upper is similar to a gas tank cap on a car. It reduces the risk of damaging the rail due to over tightening the mount. Is the mount pretty solid? Is there any need to locktite the threads on the mount or does the knob lock it securely in place? It mounts very solid. Its exactly like you described it. Once its tight enough it will just click. I've never had an issue with it coming loose. |
| Aimpoint for battery life. Buy one extra battery and you should be good for a decade. I leave my aimpoints on at all times so if I do have to pick it up it's already on. If you leave the aimpoint on at 7 or below the battery life is extremely long. I like Eotechs too but we are talking purely hd and shtf so aimpoint wins for constant on and battery life. |
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something without batteries. ACOG being a good example. Even with its half-life, in TSHF, it will outlast the user. thats kind of a moot point with aimpoints. T-1 batteries have a 10yr shelf life, and each battery lasts 5yrs, so 4 spare batteries will last you 20yrs |
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How is the mount that comes with the PRO? I saw a YouTube video where they guy reviewing it talked about how the knob that locks the mount to the upper is similar to a gas tank cap on a car. It reduces the risk of damaging the rail due to over tightening the mount. Is the mount pretty solid? Is there any need to locktite the threads on the mount or does the knob lock it securely in place? It mounts very solid. Its exactly like you described it. Once its tight enough it will just click. I've never had an issue with it coming loose. One more question about the mount. I read another thread where someone said that the spacer incuded with the mount gave them a lower 1/3 co-witness and then after removing the spacer had an absolute co-witness. I was under the impression the spacer provided an absolute co-witness while not using the spacer made the optic sit lower on the rail for use with a shotgun. Can anyone clear this up? |
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OP: Aimpoint for reliability and battery life. Has anyone claiming one to be faster than the other ever put each optic on the same rifle shooting the same ammo and then run some drills on a timer? Yes I have... and I am equally fast with both when it comes to engaging targets on a square one way range... The primary question I would ask is how much time do you want to give yourself to get the rifle with RDS into the fight... With the aimpoint I do nothing, it is on and ready, my focus is on the potential threat... with the eotech you are trying to find little buttons, and there is no tactile feedback... you have to look down the site to make sure it is on before you can actually engage... try doing that under stress... just doesn't cut it. |
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How is the mount that comes with the PRO? I saw a YouTube video where they guy reviewing it talked about how the knob that locks the mount to the upper is similar to a gas tank cap on a car. It reduces the risk of damaging the rail due to over tightening the mount. Is the mount pretty solid? Is there any need to locktite the threads on the mount or does the knob lock it securely in place? It mounts very solid. Its exactly like you described it. Once its tight enough it will just click. I've never had an issue with it coming loose. One more question about the mount. I read another thread where someone said that the spacer incuded with the mount gave them a lower 1/3 co-witness and then after removing the spacer had an absolute co-witness. I was under the impression the spacer provided an absolute co-witness while not using the spacer made the optic sit lower on the rail for use with a shotgun. Can anyone clear this up? Can anyone answer this? (above) |
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Heh. Ask this question on LF and see if anyone says EOTech.
Aimpoint for battery life: Years vs hours. Aimpoint for durability: throw each one on the concrete until one dies. Aimpoint will outlast. EOTech battery compartment issues, even with current models. Aimpoint for reliability: won't shut off automatically during use. Aimpoint for usability: NV behind the unit won't block the controls. You can roll the dial with gloved hands as opposed to trying to work tiny little buttons. You can't go by pictures that you don't know the circumstances of. Nor can you go by subjective statements like "such and such is faster" without evidence. Some will prefer the EOTech for some reason or another. That does not make it as good as the Aimpoint. |
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Heh. Ask this question on LF and see if anyone says EOTech. Aimpoint for battery life: Years vs hours. Aimpoint for durability: throw each one on the concrete until one dies. Aimpoint will outlast. EOTech battery compartment issues, even with current models. Aimpoint for reliability: won't shut off automatically during use. Aimpoint for usability: NV behind the unit won't block the controls. You can roll the dial with gloved hands as opposed to trying to work tiny little buttons. You can't go by pictures that you don't know the circumstances of. Nor can you go by subjective statements like "such and such is faster" without evidence. Some will prefer the EOTech for some reason or another. That does not make it as good as the Aimpoint. The eotech is for people who constantly check and recheck their weapons and replace batteries before every use. Do you really think the average guy will be in a fire fight for more than 8 hours or sleep more than 8 hours if he has a job? Eotech reticle is just as good or better and you can throw it on the floor as well. The newer exps models don't have battery issue from a goggle search i just did and can be use with NVD's. You don't need to be pushing buttons either cause you can just leave it on for 8 hours. The eotech is a mission specific optic and is preferred by a lot of leo and military units. I normally don't argue eotcch vs aimpoint cause i like both but i felt you were bashing the eotech to much. |
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How is the mount that comes with the PRO? I saw a YouTube video where they guy reviewing it talked about how the knob that locks the mount to the upper is similar to a gas tank cap on a car. It reduces the risk of damaging the rail due to over tightening the mount. Is the mount pretty solid? Is there any need to locktite the threads on the mount or does the knob lock it securely in place? It mounts very solid. Its exactly like you described it. Once its tight enough it will just click. I've never had an issue with it coming loose. One more question about the mount. I read another thread where someone said that the spacer incuded with the mount gave them a lower 1/3 co-witness and then after removing the spacer had an absolute co-witness. I was under the impression the spacer provided an absolute co-witness while not using the spacer made the optic sit lower on the rail for use with a shotgun. Can anyone clear this up? Can anyone answer this? (above) They have it backwards Spacer in = lower third No spacer = absolute co witness |
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The eotech is for people who constantly check and recheck their weapons and replace batteries before every use. Do you really think the average guy will be in a fire fight for more than 8 hours or sleep more than 8 hours if he has a job? all the more reason for joe-schmoe to get an Aimpoint. Put it on, turn it on, leave it on. Or... Get an EOTech (hopefully one that doesn't have battery compartment, windage click, or electronic displacement issues) try to use the little buttons, in the dark, under stress, half asleep, and if you can get it turned on, adjust it to the appropriate level. Quoted:
The newer exps models don't have battery issue from a goggle search i just did and can be use with NVD's. You don't need to be pushing buttons either cause you can just leave it on for 8 hours. Luckily, EOTech problems aren't limited to battery compartment issues, and Google doesn't index Lightfighter, do a little searching or browsing over there for some real info. So how fun is trying to push the little EOButtons when there is a NVD or magnifier blocking them? And I hope you don't need it to be on 8.1 hours later. Quoted:
The eotech is a mission specific optic and is preferred by a lot of leo and military units. 
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I don't think an Aimpoint will work with broken glass, but then I've never seen one with a broken lens. I have seen them dropped, kicked, slammed onto the armor of Bradleys, thrown, submerged in water and mud, and still work. My personal one now has been knocked over dozens of times and still works and holds zero.
I've seen Aimpoint reps slam their rifles Aimpoint first on the ground during range demos and they still work and hold zero. At one the rep removed the Aimpoint from his rifle between every string of fire and cease fire and bounced it off a block of wood. After several hours of this it still worked and held zero. Will an Eotech do this, I don't know. The reason you'll need to push buttons in actual use is that you might have to adjust the brightness. Inside a darker building you'll want the reticle dimmer so it doesn't bloom and wash out everything (both will do this), step outside into bright sunlight and you'll need to quickly turn up the brightness. With or without gloves, but especially with, you'll find the big know on an Aimpoint faster and easier to adjust. The tube thing is more mental I'm sure than anything else. Close the front lens cover and you'll train yourself to have both eyes open, and you'll get over that desire to close one eye, or think of it as a tube. I find the Aimppoint's tube to be less cluttered than the Eotech's big blocky box and less in my way. Personal preference though. Some people are faster with one than the other. Just they way the human eye and brain are. What works for you might not work for Bob, and what works for him might not work well for Sally. With the Aimpoints I've used myself, no spacer is absolute co-witness and with spacer is lower 1/3. This is with factory Aimpoint mounts or mounts that have the same height. Others might have the optic higher or lower. With Eotechs if it has an absolute co-witness you can put a spacer on the rail to raise it up. If it's already a 1/3 you're kind of stuck with it. We sell both, and unless specifically asked, I don't even mention which I prefer or why. Just get the one you like and keep up on your preventative maintenance and checks. |
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This might be a dumb question, but when shooting in low or no light and using a flashlight is there any chance that the dot on the PRO will "wash out" while the light is on? Especially when inside a house or hallway? The reticle of any battery-powered optic can wash-out when using a taclight if the brightness isn't set high enough. I found the Eotech's default setting of 12 adequate for lowlight use when using a 165 lumen taclight at close range. Regarding Aimpoints, all it takes is a minute's experimentation to find the setting you prefer for lowlight/taclight use and leave it there 24/7. Tomac ETA: There's a YouTube video of the Daniel Defense torture test of one of their rifles. An Aimpoint Micro T-1 is mounted on the rifle, surviving water, shotgun blasts, explosives, being dropped from a helicopter and other forms of abuse. The explosive blast shattered the Micro's rear lens but it was still functional. They thought the Micro lost zero but it turns out the rifle's bbl was bent by the helicopter drop. |
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Honestly, in most "SHTF" situations I can think of where the amount of time to turn on the sight would make a significant difference, it would be faster to grab a pistol first and then transition to the rifle once you gain some situational awareness.
It has been a while since I have used or looked through an Aimpoint. Maybe they improved it in later versions, but in the ones I've seen the blue color of the glass was really distracting. My eyes just fuse their images together better when there isn't that color difference. The unit I am currently with was issued all ACOG RCOs, so I can't do a side-by-side comparison at the moment. |
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Honestly, in most "SHTF" situations I can think of where the amount of time to turn on the sight would make a significant difference, it would be faster to grab a pistol first and then transition to the rifle once you gain some situational awareness. . Really? If you have the option you would go for the pistol first? Why not just pick up the rifle with an Aimpoint already ready to go... no worries about how many hours it has been on, just pick it up and go.... If I am possibly engaging a threat to my life or my family's life you can be sure the first thing I am going to do is grab my rifle if it is available... Pistols are convenient but they are horrible threat stoppers, why grab one first if the rifle is available? |
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Honestly, in most "SHTF" situations I can think of where the amount of time to turn on the sight would make a significant difference, it would be faster to grab a pistol first and then transition to the rifle once you gain some situational awareness. . Really? If you have the option you would go for the pistol first? Why not just pick up the rifle with an Aimpoint already ready to go... no worries about how many hours it has been on, just pick it up and go.... If I am possibly engaging a threat to my life or my family's life you can be sure the first thing I am going to do is grab my rifle if it is available... Pistols are convenient but they are horrible threat stoppers, why grab one first if the rifle is available? Pistols are for fighting your way to your rifle. - Clint Smith [paraphrased, possibly badly.] |
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Honestly, in most "SHTF" situations I can think of where the amount of time to turn on the sight would make a significant difference, it would be faster to grab a pistol first and then transition to the rifle once you gain some situational awareness. . Really? If you have the option you would go for the pistol first? Why not just pick up the rifle with an Aimpoint already ready to go... no worries about how many hours it has been on, just pick it up and go.... If I am possibly engaging a threat to my life or my family's life you can be sure the first thing I am going to do is grab my rifle if it is available... Pistols are convenient but they are horrible threat stoppers, why grab one first if the rifle is available? Pistols are for fighting your way to your rifle. - Clint Smith [paraphrased, possibly badly.] Yep... and if the "amount of time to turn on the sight is making a significant difference" in your ability to stop a threat... you choose your sight poorly. |
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My first choice is irons. My second is a 1-4x My third is a RDS You need to get over your romance with irons. Aimpoints have progressed to the point of reliability where irons are nearly moot, and are functionally superior in every way. I'm sure it makes the hair grow thicker on your chest if you brag about your preference for the good old days of "ierns" down at the gun shop (along with regrets of the demise of wooden stocks, 30.06 as a battle cartridge, and statements that the M14 was the last good rifle), but such banter isn't based in the current reality. We learn, we progress, and we adapt. One of the ways we do that is to no longer squint through peepholes. We open both eyes, place the hovering dot over the target, and we squeeze the trigger. While I'm at it, we no longer "slingshot" the charging handle with our strongside hand. Magnified optics are barely useable, even at 1x in a house or confined area. If you feel like you're more likely to need to take 400yd shots than shoot someone in your living room, they may be a better choice. However, if your most likely shots are going to be within 100 yards, and nearly all within 300 yards, a magnified optic just can't keep up with a red dot. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Optic for HD/SHTF (Page 1 of 2)
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