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Posted: 1/23/2010 7:11:02 PM EDT
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Hey - does anybody use the TA33?
I'm thinking I'm going to get an ACOG for my new AR (16" BCM Middy), and I know I don't want a TA31. Both the TA11 and TA33 have longer eye relief and larger exit pupil than the TA31. The 33 is smaller and lighter than the 11, but doesn't provide as good FOV, eye relief, or magnification (though 3.5x down to 3.0x is pretty much negligible to me). I also am not familiar with the "horseshoe and dot" reticle. Could somebody school me up on the "textbook" way to use the "horseshoe and dot" reticle and provide thoughts on the TA33 in general (and as it relates to the TA11)? I'm for sure not getting a 31, I'm just now trying to decide between the TA11 and TA33. Thanks a lot for the help! |
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The TA11 and TA33 are both great ACOGs; I have both. Below is a quote from Bartholomew Roberts that I agree with 100% and sums up my take on the two:
"I have used a TA33 and TA11 side by side on 5.56 rifles. I think the TA11 is overall the better scope; but the TA33 does 95% of what the TA11 can do at almost 1/3 of the weight and less cost. I also actually like the narrower field of view of the TA33 as it helps let you use both eyes open more easily. I did not notice any issues with eye relief either - I think some here may be confusing the TA33 with the more common TA31." |
The bullet drop compensator is scaled for zeroing at 100 meters. I assume it's for a flattop, given the "5.56F". The manual that came with mine describes zeroing with the chevron, but not the horseshoe. I zeroed with the dot centered on the target. I think the bottom of the dot is for 200 m, the top of the lit vertical post is 300 m.
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| Thanks for post of the horseshoe pics. So, top of dot is 100m, bottom is 200m and the tip is 300m. What size is the actual horseshoe? Looks like the horsehoe might be more suited for 0-100m. I was on the fence about the green hosreshoe, but those pics helped my decision. Have the chevron w/ a ta31rcom4 and it washes out in darkness and brakelights. The green looks promising. |
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Quoted:
Thanks for post of the horseshoe pics. So, top of dot is 100m, bottom is 200m and the tip is 300m. What size is the actual horseshoe? Looks like the horsehoe might be more suited for 0-100m. I was on the fence about the green hosreshoe, but those pics helped my decision. Have the chevron w/ a ta31rcom4 and it washes out in darkness and brakelights. The green looks promising. Center of the dot is 100M. |
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The longest range I have conveniently available is 225 yards. I zeroed the TA33 at 50. At 50 - 100, I put the dot in the center of a 12" steel plate and dinged it with center hits every time. At 225, the horseshoe outlined perfectly the diameter of the 12" plate with the dot centered. Most hits were just a tad lower. I also could use a windage tweak as you can see. I don't usually shoot at that distance.
225 yards - partial magazine, all hits - shots made prone, magazine rest, firing as quickly as I could get back on target, not shooting for group: 
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| As still a relative newbie, assuming I have understood the 50/200yd IBZ approach (and please correct me if I am wrong), centering the horsehoe dot (POA = POI) at 50 yds will give you a 50/200 yd battle zero. Given the rather flat trajectory out to almost 300 yds, your POI will be within 2 inches of POA out to almost 300 yds (ie about 1.2 in low at 25 yds, on at 50yds, about 2 in high at 125 yds, on again at 225 yds, and 2 in low at 275 yds). Even with 3x power I can't see myself shooting beyond 300 yds with this setup (but quite possible with hold over - has anyone calculated the BDC using this IBZ approach for the TA33 horseshoe?). Even with relatively good marksmanship skills getting POI +/- 2 inches to POA out to 275 yds is pretty good (for me and my eyes) with a 3x scope. Again, If I missed something in all of the previous battle zero etc threads please correct me as I am setting up all my rifles to this 50/200 approach (scopes and BUIS). thanks |
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Quoted:
I have a TA33-8 with the amber chevron in a LaRue mount on my duty carbine and I like it a lot. light weight, good field of view, and fast target acusion make it a great optic for me. Using the same model here, except with the original Trijicon mount. Love it. Hokie has a huge TA33 review thread going here. |
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Quoted:
As still a relative newbie, assuming I have understood the 50/200yd IBZ approach (and please correct me if I am wrong), centering the horsehoe dot (POA = POI) at 50 yds will give you a 50/200 yd battle zero. Given the rather flat trajectory out to almost 300 yds, your POI will be within 2 inches of POA out to almost 300 yds (ie about 1.2 in low at 25 yds, on at 50yds, about 2 in high at 125 yds, on again at 225 yds, and 2 in low at 275 yds). Even with 3x power I can't see myself shooting beyond 300 yds with this setup (but quite possible with hold over - has anyone calculated the BDC using this IBZ approach for the TA33 horseshoe?). Even with relatively good marksmanship skills getting POI +/- 2 inches to POA out to 275 yds is pretty good (for me and my eyes) with a 3x scope. Again, If I missed something in all of the previous battle zero etc threads please correct me as I am setting up all my rifles to this 50/200 approach (scopes and BUIS). thanks No. You zero the center of the dot at 100M. The BDC picks up from there. 300M is the top of the index line. The IBZ can be used for irons and a RDS. |
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Unless I did this wrong, then when I figured up 75gr OTM fired from a 16" barrel on the horseshoe/dot retile pattern, I came out with zeroing the round for 200m on the dot keeps you +/- 2" on each stadia line all the way to 600m. Like I said, maybe I did it wrong, but if I didn't, then that's just sweet! 2" is entirely within the realm of "combat accuracy."
As for the TA33 itself - I've always wanted either a CompM4S or a T1 Micro - my mind was just recently changed. |
| I understand that the manual says to zero at 100 and use the BDC from there - but that isn't what I want (or how I want to use the sight). I don't want to have to take the time to adjust the sight picture from center dot to someplace else on the BDC as I try and estimate the range etc (takes too much time in my view and the BDC gradient isn't always easy to see). And when I look at the trajectory differences between a 50 yd and 100 yd zero, I much prefer the 50 yd zero flight path out to 300 yds for how I will use my rifle. If it's possible with the TA33G-H I want to use the same sight picture (ie, center dot within the horseshoe) for anything out to 275 - 300 yds and have POI be within +/- 2 inches of POA. And knowing this I can choose to adjust POA slightly for range with holdover (or under) if I decide to. Yes I know this may invalidate using the BDC reticle and the way the sight may have been designed - but I want to put the dot on target and be close out to 275 yds - quick, simple, and repeatable with minimal thought involved. My skills and eyes aren't any closer than 1 - 2 MOA anyway and seeing targets beyond 300 yds with a 3x scope gets tough (my eyes anyway). So I'd be willing to give up use of the BDC beyond 300 yds using this approach (use kentucky windage if I had to I guess). So, yes I am deliberately deviating from the manual and established BDC ballistics. Is there any reason this approach can't work with the caveats / limitations on BDC use above? |
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Quoted:
I understand that the manual says to zero at 100 and use the BDC from there - but that isn't what I want (or how I want to use the sight). I don't want to have to take the time to adjust the sight picture from center dot to someplace else on the BDC as I try and estimate the range etc (takes too much time in my view and the BDC gradient isn't always easy to see). And when I look at the trajectory differences between a 50 yd and 100 yd zero, I much prefer the 50 yd zero flight path out to 300 yds for how I will use my rifle. If it's possible with the TA33G-H I want to use the same sight picture (ie, center dot within the horseshoe) for anything out to 275 - 300 yds and have POI be within +/- 2 inches of POA. And knowing this I can choose to adjust POA slightly for range with holdover (or under) if I decide to. Yes I know this may invalidate using the BDC reticle and the way the sight may have been designed - but I want to put the dot on target and be close out to 275 yds - quick, simple, and repeatable with minimal thought involved. My skills and eyes aren't any closer than 1 - 2 MOA anyway and seeing targets beyond 300 yds with a 3x scope gets tough (my eyes anyway). So I'd be willing to give up use of the BDC beyond 300 yds using this approach (use kentucky windage if I had to I guess). So, yes I am deliberately deviating from the manual and established BDC ballistics. Is there any reason this approach can't work with the caveats / limitations on BDC use above? +1......This is how I have set up my TA-11D and TR-24G, I much prefer the "put tip of triangle on target and shoot" technique out to 300 yards for my uses and it works great. |
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