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Posted: 3/5/2006 1:51:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 1:53:13 PM EDT by JB_Metal]
I can only afford one setup for my MRP, and I am torn between going with an ACOG or doing the Aimpoint + the 3X magnifier.

I could use your input please:

What do you guy's feel would be a better all-around setup? Pro's & con's?

The ACOG TA-31F:



Or the Aimpoint + 3X magnifier (using the Samson flip mount):



Thank you for your input.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:46:30 PM EDT
That all depends on what you want to use it for.

Aimpoint:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
The best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight.
Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.
Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. Uses batteries.
2. Does not have BDC like the ACOG.
3. Can fail.
4. Heavier set-up.

ACOG:
Uses: (50-600 Yards)
Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. Best all purpose Military scope. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity. (ACOGs: 3.5X35, 4X32, 5.5X50).
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice.
2. Can fail.
3. Eye relief.

Basically, IMHO, if you need a scope for 0-100 yards, get the Aimpoint. If you want a scope for longer distances, then get the ACOG. In my opinion though, unless you are going to battle in Iraq, the best compromise is a 1X4 variable type scope. They combine the best of both of the above sights and it will be cheaper, unless you get the ultimate 1X4 scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 1.5X5, Leupold CQT, IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision 1X4, or even the IOR 2X12-32 (That is the one I currently use and won't look back.).

Variable Scopes:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
Good CQB scope.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black.
Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.).
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive.

Examples:
Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X20 Illuminated CQB Short Dot 30mm Rifle Scope. ($2000.00).
Horus Vision Model 1000 1-4X24 Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($989.00).
IOR 1.1-4X26 CRT Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($695.00).
Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($699.95).

Check out the following post:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=271765
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:24:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 4:23:02 PM EDT by JB_Metal]
Awesome input, thank you Paul.

You pretty much clarified most of what I have "gathered" while reading ARFCOM for days.


ETA:
Good input all - I'm going ACOG or a more versatile variable power setup. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:32:38 PM EDT
Another con for the 3x magnifier: narrow FOV. I sold mine for that reason alone. But I have never been a 1x optic enthusiast to begin with, with or without the 3x magnifier my Aimpoint stays home and does duty on rifles I don't shoot often, it's put on just so it has some kind of optic

The Aimpoint's blue tint bothers me too.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:39:06 PM EDT
The 3X magnifier and aimpoint combo is heavier and more complex in mounting and executing.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 4:18:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 4:19:50 PM EDT by Raven6]
Go with the TA31F ACOG, it is one of the finest all around combat optic out there. I just ordered one from Eagle Firearms to go on a new RRA mid A4. I also own a TA11C which I have had for several years and still love the scope. There is compromise in all choices of optic but the ACOG is one that does many things well and MOST things extremely well!! Dot sights like the Aimpoint and Eotech do a real good job under 150m but engaging targets more distant without magnification becomes increasingly more difficult and with a loss of speed. With proper training the ACOG can be ALMOST as effective in the CQB role and MUCH more effective at stand off distances. My two cents!!!

Raven6

Rangers Lead the Way!!!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 4:49:28 PM EDT
I have both.I use my M2 under 100 yards.Anything else over 100 yards I use the TA31F.I wouldnt trade any of them period!!!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:40:45 PM EDT
I really really like my M3 & 3X magnifier. The Samson flip mount is what makes it work better than any other setup with fixed (non-flip) magnifiers.

Not enough field of view, flip the 3X out of the way. Need a little more precision, flip it back up.

Now I do have both a TA31 and a TA31F, love them both, and BAC works really well for me. But rapid fire with the Aimpoint/3X at 100 yards is even faster than the TA31.
No centering the top or the donut with the Aimpoint, just center the whole dot and fire.

Now if you're talking about shorter ranges, just the Aimpoint is superior, anyone will tell you that, and I like a weapon for all around use to be optimized for shorter ranges. For defense of your home, you want an ACOG or an Aimpoint? The choice is obvious.

For shots over 250 yards there isn't a BDC reticle, but there is a very clearly defined 2 MOA dot that will allow you to estimate holdover. Now if you regularly shoot 300+ yards, especially if it's more regular than you shoot 25, the Aimpoint isn't for you.

And all the wonder 1.X-4 variables out there. Well I haven't looked at the S&B (heck, I might want to buy it if I did!), but the other low power variables I have seen are decidedly inferior to the Aimpoint at their lowest setting, particularly in respect to eye relief, dot intensity, and usefulness on the move clearing buildings or over obstacles.

The final argument for the Aimpoint/3X system, is after dark, remove the 3X and mount the MUM or PVS-14 (especially if you don't have an IR laser). And there you have it, a 24 hour weapon system, no zeroing required. It gives me the best overall day/night weapon optimized for close range performance.







Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:14:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paulosantos:
That all depends on what you want to use it for.

Aimpoint:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
The best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight.
Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.
Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. Uses batteries.
2. Does not have BDC like the ACOG.
3. Can fail.
4. Heavier set-up.

ACOG:
Uses: (50-600 Yards)
Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. Best all purpose Military scope. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity. (ACOGs: 3.5X35, 4X32, 5.5X50).
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice.
2. Can fail.
3. Eye relief.

Basically, IMHO, if you need a scope for 0-100 yards, get the Aimpoint. If you want a scope for longer distances, then get the ACOG. In my opinion though, unless you are going to battle in Iraq, the best compromise is a 1X4 variable type scope. They combine the best of both of the above sights and it will be cheaper, unless you get the ultimate 1X4 scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 1.5X5, Leupold CQT, IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision 1X4, or even the IOR 2X12-32 (That is the one I currently use and won't look back.).

Variable Scopes:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
Good CQB scope.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black.
Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.).
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive.

Examples:
Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X20 Illuminated CQB Short Dot 30mm Rifle Scope. ($2000.00).
Horus Vision Model 1000 1-4X24 Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($989.00).
IOR 1.1-4X26 CRT Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($695.00).
Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($699.95).

Check out the following post:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=271765



Very informative but the Eotech is better than the Aimpoint. Other than that pretty good post.
Pat
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:02:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:26:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockfan:

Originally Posted By paulosantos:
That all depends on what you want to use it for.

Aimpoint:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
The best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight.
Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.
Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. Uses batteries.
2. Does not have BDC like the ACOG.
3. Can fail.
4. Heavier set-up.

ACOG:
Uses: (50-600 Yards)
Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. Best all purpose Military scope. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity. (ACOGs: 3.5X35, 4X32, 5.5X50).
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). (Once sight is zeroed, multiple users can use same weapon with minimal change in zero.).
Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice.
2. Can fail.
3. Eye relief.

Basically, IMHO, if you need a scope for 0-100 yards, get the Aimpoint. If you want a scope for longer distances, then get the ACOG. In my opinion though, unless you are going to battle in Iraq, the best compromise is a 1X4 variable type scope. They combine the best of both of the above sights and it will be cheaper, unless you get the ultimate 1X4 scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Take a look at the Leupold Mark 4 1.5X5, Leupold CQT, IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision 1X4, or even the IOR 2X12-32 (That is the one I currently use and won't look back.).

Variable Scopes:
Uses: (0-300 Yards)
Good CQB scope.
Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black.
Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.).
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive.

Examples:
Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X20 Illuminated CQB Short Dot 30mm Rifle Scope. ($2000.00).
Horus Vision Model 1000 1-4X24 Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($989.00).
IOR 1.1-4X26 CRT Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($695.00).
Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T Illuminated 30mm Rifle Scope. ($699.95).

Check out the following post:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=271765



Very informative but the Eotech is better than the Aimpoint. Other than that pretty good post.
Pat



Hey, the man asked about the Aimpoints and ACOGs so I gave him information on those two. Personally I have gone the EOTech and Aimpoint + Magnifier route and I prefer the variable scope better.. Just my opinion though. To me Aimppoints and Eotechs are both outstanding CQB optics. But variable scopes are better all around. Again, JMHO.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:52:04 AM EDT
Thank you Gentlemen, very helpful. I'm going with the ACOG.
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