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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:32:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 7:49:23 PM EDT by hepcat85]
Sorry 'bout the pics. But you get the general idea.

The magnification lever is VERY smooth. Illumination knob is solid and clicks crisp. Tank like construction as expected. Though I've read of some complaints, I like the reticle.









Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:30:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:51:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:28:45 PM EDT
Nice dude. Im jealous.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:36:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:16:43 AM EDT
nice
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:23:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skammy:
nice

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:45:25 AM EDT
I thought that I read on the spec sheet, posted here somewhere, that there was a change of impact between the 1x and 4x settings. Please let us know.

Also, is there really no change in eye relief between 1x and 4x?

Oh, and I'm jealous.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:53:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 5:14:54 AM EDT by Rabbit9]
Very nice optic, and if it's an ELCAN, you know it's built like a tank.

How is the cheekweld, it looks like the sight sits about a mile above the rail. How does it compare to the ACOG?

Never mind the first part, I just noticed the VLTOR forend / riser.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:36:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:00:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By PE556:
I thought that I read on the spec sheet, posted here somewhere, that there was a change of impact between the 1x and 4x settings. Please let us know.

Also, is there really no change in eye relief between 1x and 4x?

Oh, and I'm jealous.



There is a change.


C4



Indeed there is. I'll check and report back.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:02:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:
Be nice to see the reticle as well.

Vic



I should have compared them last night when I thought of it....But it reminds me of a TA01NSN.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:07:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 10:09:29 AM EDT by hepcat85]

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:
Very nice optic, and if it's an ELCAN, you know it's built like a tank.

How is the cheekweld, it looks like the sight sits about a mile above the rail. How does it compare to the ACOG?

Never mind the first part, I just noticed the VLTOR forend / riser.




With the VLTOR stock it feels just fine.....

I'll have to do a direct comparison to my ACOGs and report back. I really only had time yesterday to mount it, "clear the den of terrorists" and then snap some photos.

Thanks for the kind words fellas!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:04:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 7:05:09 AM EDT by SULACO2]
Thanks for the work.
How's the cheekweld w/ it atop the raised rail of the CAS-V? Is it similar to the ACOG atop the CAS-V/SIR/Predator?

Thanks again.

/S2


Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hepcat85:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By PE556:
I thought that I read on the spec sheet, posted here somewhere, that there was a change of impact between the 1x and 4x settings. Please let us know.

Also, is there really no change in eye relief between 1x and 4x?

Oh, and I'm jealous.



There is a change.


C4



Indeed there is. I'll check and report back.



Thanks. I thought that they were advertising it as a constant eye relief scope, which seemed odd to me.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:27:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:58:55 AM EDT
Sigh, when will I get mine?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:00:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PE556:

Originally Posted By hepcat85:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By PE556:
I thought that I read on the spec sheet, posted here somewhere, that there was a change of impact between the 1x and 4x settings. Please let us know.

Also, is there really no change in eye relief between 1x and 4x?

Oh, and I'm jealous.



There is a change.


C4



Indeed there is. I'll check and report back.



Thanks. I thought that they were advertising it as a constant eye relief scope, which seemed odd to me.



Upon closer inspection, I have to back peddle. Switching between magnifcations doesn't require any real adjustment for eye relief. I was able to move back and forth and hold a target.

Also, the reticle is VERY much like the TA01NSN. Which is a good thing
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 1:21:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:04:45 PM EDT
The more I hear and see of this sight, the less enamored I become.

I think I'll save the cash.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:49:58 PM EDT
Nice.

How much did you spend on it?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:57:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:58:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By detroitchris:
Nice.

How much did you spend on it?




I did allright.

Fact is I thought of putting it up on the EE because I was actually looking for mid-range glass for my M1A when the Elcan dropped into my lap.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:12:11 AM EDT
Hi Guys,
I'm with ELCAN and am the person who championed the development of the SpecterDR for the Special Forces. Someone forwarded this thread to me and I thought I might be able to clear up some questions.

Question 1. Same Cheek Weld in 1X and 4X? -- Ans. Yes, absolutely. Eye relief is 2.75 inches and exit pupil is about 8mm at the 2.75mm eye relief. This is one of the primary optical constraints on the design.

Discussion: I noticed at the SHOT show that 95% of people place their eye either much too far back or too close. When you do this, you wont get the full sight picture and you could lead get some image change between 1X & 4X (due to the different FOV at each optical power and not being at the correct eye relief).

If you make sure that your cheek weld places your eye 2.75" +/- .25" back from the rearmost optical surface, then there will be zero cheekweld shift when changing between 1X and 4X. (The imaging imaging is also excellent and the parallax is very low. At 1X, the FOV is a very wide 24 degrees. At 4X the FOV is 6.5 deg.


Question 2: Is the 1X really 1.0X or something else? The optical magnification at the 1X position is designed to be 1.02X and production unit-to-unit tolerances placing the magnification within .96X and 1.06X. Achiving a true 1.0X value was another critical contraint on the optical design since this is very important for both eyes open close combat. At the 4X setting, the magnification is 4.0+/-0.1X.

Comment on the Postings: "Upon closer inspection, I have to back peddle. Switching between magnifcations doesn't require any real adjustment for eye relief. I was able to move back and forth and hold a target. " This poster originally thought that there was a cheekweld shift, but he later realized that he in fact did not have to adjust his cheekweld.

"Agree with you, there is as much change as one would think. This should tell folks a lot about the 1X setting (meaning it is not a true 1X and is more like a 1.5 or more)." This subsequent poster while even quoting the prior poster, did not understand that the prior poster was correcting his original error. The result is that the original error is now both propogated and in this case, even expanded. (This is what prompted me to post)


Question 3: The 1X Red Dot is not a true Reflex Red Dot" Ans. True. No telescopic optical sight can generate a reflex red dot. A Reflex Red Dot sight is based on collimating the image of a point source using an off axis parabolla. This results in the dot "follows" the eye as is moves left or right, up or down, and forward and backward. The effect is similar to how the moon "follows" you when you're walking or driving a car. (because the light is collimated it always looks like its coming from the same angle independent of your observing position) However, shoot house test results (unofficial from Ft. Bragg) indicate that the SpecterDR performs equally to the M68 red dot (a traditional reflex red dot sight). It is my opinion that this equality in performance is due to the fact that shooters train into a fixed cheek weld anyway, (hence a lower penelty for not being a true reflex) and due to the wider field of view of the ELCAN 1X setting (24 degrees) versus the M68 (12 degrees), so that there is an earlier view of the target within the sight image as the dot is brought to bear on it.

Thanks very much.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:40:31 PM EDT
any reticle pics?


tag
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:27:27 PM EDT
Thanks ELCAN
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:37:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:39:01 PM EDT by CSGunWorkscom]
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 11:37:15 PM EDT by SULACO2]
1) Thank you JRS_Elcan, for posting here and making yourself available for members questions....

2) Battery Life? Estimated of course....

3) What color is shown in the above posted pics? Is that the final release color? Early ohoto's had it in Coyote..... In any event the early protos. at SHOT were a greenish/black....


While not as good as reticle pics. the controls and reticle are very nice. the reticle is almost identical to the TAONSN, but not in function...In 1X the rheostat control knob, very nice and smooth btw, can be turned either (I forget which one) away from the shooter or Clockwise to get either a red crosshair (think ACOG), or a red dot (a la Comp M series) turning the rheo control the opposite direction gets the shooter the other....so Dot in 1X and crosshairs in 4X really nice.....The rheo control had I believe 4 brightness settings in each direction......

/S2
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:52:12 AM EDT
There has been some discussion in the past about Elcan's ever-evolving external adjustment system. What all was done with this optic to make this the final evolution of that system?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 2:35:53 PM EDT
Lets see:

Q1) Battery life - Depends on the brightness setting for the dot and/or the reticle illumination (they are independent but exclusive brightness settings).

At the brightest dot setting, the dot is bright enough for snow field use on a very bright day. This is brighter than is perhaps comfortable for your eye but its serves a forseable need. At this brightest setting, the battery life is 272 hours.

At the next to the brightest dot setting, the battery life is approximately 1800 hours. This is the best brightness setting for non-snowfield daylight sighting requirements. It is comfortable for your eye and gives a clear and sharp red dot.

A low daylight and two night vision lighting intensity levels have continous operating lives that are longer yet with the lowest setting having a theoretical 50,000 hour life (i.e. longer than the shelf life of the battery).

On the reticle illumination side, there is also a distribution of brightness settings, with the brightest reticle illumination setting having a continous operating life of 272 hours, and the lowest reticle illumination intensity operating life being 1900 hours. The reticle illumination settings are intended for use in low light at dusk/dawn (brighter settings as preferred), at night (lower settings), and with night vision equipment (lowest settings).

Q2) We do our own surface treatment and anodization in house so we have an ability to alter color according to the freedoms of the processes and alloy used. We've also had some varying color requests occur over the course of development. The ones currently being sold (and shown at the SHOT show) are greenish black hard anodize finished.

Q3) External zeroing and the evolution of the mount -

The benefits of external zeroing are:

a) It allows you to hard mount your optics at their optimal position. Since there is no optic is
being moved out of alignment to achieve boresight, the imaging resolution is always maximized.

b) It reduces boresighting complexity for additional common axis sighting features (such as the back up iron rain sight).

The approach of the external zeroing on the SpecterDR is the same as the M145's (the Army's Machine Gun Optic). The specific improvements on the SpecterDR are that the upper portion of the mount is now integral to the body, the zeroing resolution has been increased to 1/2 MOA per click, and quick release levers have been adopted.

Benefits of mount integration:

a) It increases the strength of the mount (always a plus).

b) It reduces the weight of the mount (always a plus). The weight reduction more than offsets the the added weight of the DFOV optics and switch mechanism.

Is this the the final evolution of this mount? This configuration is very reliable and boresight retaining (as are the optics). In addition, when a configuration becomes a Government Model Number, then there is no change without very great need or very great benefit. That being said, if improvements can be found, then they will be pursued where it makes sense and is allowed.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:16:51 PM EDT
Good man. Thank you very much for the detail and exhaustive reply, it's appreciated. Any chance that the "coyote" or tan color seen on your site will be produced in the foreseeable future, or has Elcan settled on the color shown at SHOT?
Any idea when these begin to ship in any considerable numbers?


Thanks again.....


/S2
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:14:24 AM EDT
I can't wait to get mine. [ordered last month]

I am a glass freak , and have been looking foward to this since first glance !!

---JRS_Elcan , a question

If I want to change the finish color, what process do you recommend?

Powdercoating ?
Paint ,if so what type ?
Molycoat?

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:30:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SULACO2:
Good man. Thank you very much for the detail and exhaustive reply, it's appreciated. Any chance that the "coyote" or tan color seen on your site will be produced in the foreseeable future, or has Elcan settled on the color shown at SHOT?
Any idea when these begin to ship in any considerable numbers?


Thanks again.....


/S2



+1

How is the lens ?
Can it resist fragment? Will it release any kill-flash ?

thz
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:37:45 AM EDT
Q1) I can't recommend changing the color of an already built sight.

Q2) A "coyote" or tan color will be delivered to the Special Forces.

Q3) All of the optics are optical grade glass types with high efficiency, low glint, multilayer anti-reflextion coatings. The external coatings are specifically also designed for abrasion and moisture resistance. The resistance of the lenses to fragmentation is similar to that of typical optical grade glass. A kill flash is not yet available.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:00:56 PM EDT
price?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:32:02 PM EDT
Retail purchases can be made from Armament Technologies 902-454-6384.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:38:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 1:42:26 PM EDT by DevL]
Any chance of newer version being TRUE 1X on the low end... I have heard several reports its more like 1.5 or 1.25X on the low end.

Any chance of a reticle calibrated for 75/77 grain ammunition being released in the future?

Are the ARMS levers replaceable... could a Larue throw lever design be bolted on to the optic or are the ARMS throw levers integrated in such a way that it is not a simple bolt on mounting plate?

I would purchase the optic today if it has those three items added to the current design.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:12:24 AM EDT
I would like to see a side by side field test of the Elcan Specter DR and the Trijicon TA31DOC.

The Leupold Mark IV CQ/T tried to combine a red dot with a variable power scope and ended up being a disappointment to some.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:37:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:47:29 AM EDT by hepcat85]

Originally Posted By CDBURNS:

The Leupold Mark IV CQ/T tried to combine a red dot with a variable power scope and ended up being a disappointment to some.



To some.


Hey JRS_ELCAN, how about using the Specter on rifle using 7.62 Nato? By how much would the BDC be off? Perhaps the answer can be found >>>HERE<<< on the BDC question???
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:12:32 AM EDT
The 1X FOV is a true 1X magnification. See my first post in this thread.

Custom reticles are possible but normally, they are developed in response to government solicitation or request.

The rail grabbing base is not a simple bolt on mounting plate - it is part of the boresighting mechanism.

A 7.62mm BDC variant is part of the ECOS-C requirement for SOCOM's SOPMOD future subsystems procurement: MDNS. SpecterDR and ACOG are the last two remaining competitors for a production award of this ECOS-C line item.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:28:54 AM EDT
Just curious; but would you know the info used to calculate the BDC on the SpecterDR?

I was specifically looking for muzzle velocity, bullet type (62gr M855 I'm guessing) and height over bore figures. This info would allow civilian shooters to refigure the zeros and BDC for use with other loads.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:34:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
Just curious; but would you know the info used to calculate the BDC on the SpecterDR?

I was specifically looking for muzzle velocity, bullet type (62gr M855 I'm guessing) and height over bore figures. This info would allow civilian shooters to refigure the zeros and BDC for use with other loads.



Greetings Bartholomew_Roberts!

Just the chap I was hoping would post.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 11:08:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JRS_ELCAN:

The rail grabbing base is not a simple bolt on mounting plate - it is part of the boresighting mechanism.




So, the railgrabbing base, ino rder to have Larue throw levers instead of ARMS throw levers, would require a 100% new rail grabbing base produced by Larue?

Sorry for not reading your earlier posts on my 1X question etc and repeating questions that had already been answered.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:44:44 AM EDT
I got the chance to see the SpecterDR at Shot and I must say that I was pretty impressed. I really liked the red dot/ lit reticle combo idea. Although I've since forgotten the exact layout of the reticle, it seemed to be pretty useful. It did remind me a lot of the TA01NSN. But, I would like to see pics of the reticle as well.

JRS_ELCAN, do you have any input regarding claims of the shift in POI between 1x and 4x? If this is true, are we talking fractions of a MOA or multiple MOA? Are they consistent from optic to optic?

Based on the pictures and the 2.75" optimal eye relief, I have to assume that the optic needs to be mounted over the top of the BUIS. I would think that this will make deploying the BUIS a little more difficult since you would need to remove the optic first. More eye relief would allow for the BUIS to be mounted further forward and the BUIS to be used in the 1X without removal of the SpecterDR. Or would this not work?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 11:04:18 AM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By Redhook:
I got the chance to see the SpecterDR at Shot and I must say that I was pretty impressed. I really liked the red dot/ lit reticle combo idea. Although I've since forgotten the exact layout of the reticle, it seemed to be pretty useful. It did remind me a lot of the TA01NSN. But, I would like to see pics of the reticle as well.

JRS_ELCAN, do you have any input regarding claims of the shift in POI between 1x and 4x? If this is true, are we talking fractions of a MOA or multiple MOA? Are they consistent from optic to optic?

Based on the pictures and the 2.75" optimal eye relief, I have to assume that the optic needs to be mounted over the top of the BUIS. I would think that this will make deploying the BUIS a little more difficult since you would need to remove the optic first. More eye relief would allow for the BUIS to be mounted further forward and the BUIS to be used in the 1X without removal of the SpecterDR. Or would this not work?



You cant use a BUIS through a magnified optic, even 1X, because you cant see the front sight correctly. You must remove ANY magnified scope to use the BUIS. So, no, your idea would not work and the fact you have to remove the optic to deploy the BUIS is not in any way a negative.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:11:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
You cant use a BUIS through a magnified optic, even 1X, because you cant see the front sight correctly.



I've never played with a magnified optic at 1X. But that makes sense since if you are still dealing with two lenses. Does anyone know if the SpecterDR uses a prisim for the magnification?


Originally Posted By DevL:
and the fact you have to remove the optic to deploy the BUIS is not in any way a negative.



Being an arm chair commando, it probably will never make a difference to me. But, the time it takes to remove the optic, may certainly be a negative. I would rather just flip up my BUIS and look through my Aimpoint, which can be done with the rifle shouldered, vs. having to pull the optic, find a place for it, flip up the BUIS, and get back in the game.

I'm really liking the SpecterDR and am already churning my brain to figure out what body part I'm willing to sell to afford it. But, my biggest concern is the shift in POI. I really wouldn't mind a civilian version in Coyote either.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:24:16 PM EDT
--churning my brain to figure out what body part I'm willing to sell to afford it.

Thats the Truth

Any color would be fine by me
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:48:06 PM EDT
In rough order:

1) Excepting for cosmetic differences, the BDC matches the TAO1NSN reticle (per SOCOM request).

2) The reference optical axis is defined by the 4X FOV optical axis.
Boresight the sight while in the 4X FOV so that you have maximum accuracy at range.

In practical terms, the shift when switching to 1X is below the ability of an uninstrumented shooter to detect, i.e. less than 1/4 the diameter of the 1X aiming dot. The boresight deviation specification is 1.5MOA max., 1 MOA typ. Life fire tests have shown that the SpecterDR maintains boresight within 1/2 MOA and 1X boresight shift within 1.5 MOA over 15,000 rounds.

3) Yes. The SpecterDR is designed to overhang above the top of a rail mounted BUIS. The rail mounted BUIS will not be usable until the optic is removed. The SpecterDR incorporates its own back up iron sight for use during periods of rain, etc. This back up sight becomes boresighted to the weapon as a result of boresighting the 4X optical axis to the weapon.

Since it the SpecterDR is already a 1X & 4X optic, it will out perform any BUIS in combat. If the SpecterDR gets disabled by bullet impact or other, you should then remove the optic and fall back to the rail mounted BUIS. Many soldiers will wire tie down the sight to the rail so that it can't ever come off until they're cutting it off.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:05:53 PM EDT
So the commercially availble colors will be green and tan only for the foreseeable future?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:27:59 AM EDT
This sight is very interesting.

How does one switch between 1x and 4x?

I was looking at a CQ/T but the 14mm thing and I couldn't get along... this is a pricer but perhaps better option...
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:15:06 AM EDT
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