Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/15/2006 6:49:53 PM EDT
I am looking for a good optic. I will primarily be using it for CQB but will use it sometimes up to 75 yards.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:12:07 PM EDT
Tacpoint!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:22:09 PM EDT by twonami]
Leupold CQT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:26:22 PM EDT
EOTech
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:32:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 3-gun:
EOTech
img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/3-gun/gunpics005.jpg


He said scope you dope
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:20:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:22:25 PM EDT by Phoebus]
IOR 3x25 CQB

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:58:27 PM EDT
Schmidt & Bender 1.1–4 X 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman II


Schmidt & Bender CQB Short Dot website link
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:25:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Schmidt & Bender 1.1–4 X 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman II


Schmidt & Bender CQB Short Dot website link



LOL well yeah, but that's like saying "I'm looking for a fast car" and me suggesting you pick up a Lotus or Maserati next time you're out...

I guess that thing is so far out of my price range I don't even think of it!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:40:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 10:46:26 PM EDT by Alpha-Romeo3]

Originally Posted By Phoebus:

Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Schmidt & Bender 1.1–4 X 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman II


Schmidt & Bender CQB Short Dot website link



LOL well yeah, but that's like saying "I'm looking for a fast car" and me suggesting you pick up a Lotus or Maserati next time you're out...

I guess that thing is so far out of my price range I don't even think of it!


You guys know that I'm just kidding with the S&B Short Dot.

But seriously, I'm saving my pennies for a Trijicon ACOG 4X32 Model # TA31DOC, with Docter Optic mounted on top for close combat shooting.

Until the time I could afford it I'll just have to get by with my Aimpoint and EOTech.


ACOG TA31DOC website link


ETA: Trijicon TA31DOC Pics! thread link
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:22:40 AM EDT
Maybe I made a mistake when I said scope. I am new to this whole optics thing I have only used iron sights on my A2. Or the scope on my hunting rifle.

I need a optic that is going to help me aquire targets fast in a cqb situation and also can be used as a aid at 75 yards for determaning targets.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:06:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:
I need a optic that is going to help me aquire targets fast in a cqb situation and also can be used as a aid at 75 yards for determaning targets.



EOTech or Aimpoint for CQB for speed. Depending on who ask either is faster (personally I think the EOTech is, but I digress).


But to 'determine targets' generally means you want magnification. And as the "Best' was asked for the answer is of course the S&B Short Dot. It is 'The Best'.

Now do you want 'The Best', or some pretty good comprimises?

Good Compromise #1
EOTech or Aimpoint with the Aimpoint magnification module and the Sampson flip mount. Gives you 'The Best' CQB sight and you an add magnification when you need it. Cost can be under $1K. Problems are weight and complexity (technically you have 2 optics mounted on your carbine).

Good Compromise #2
Leopold CQT. One optic to do it all, but the illumination is weak so IMHO it's not as fast to aquire in CQB (especially if the illumination is off).

Good Compromise #3
ACOG with BAC (like the TA-31 series, the TA-11 Series, or the Compact ACOGs). Cost is high, and BAC doesn't work for everyone. Indeed BAC also isn't as accurate close up, but for COM shots it's good enough. Never worry about batteries. Can either be the lease expensive (Compact ACOG) or most expensive option presented (excepting the Short Dot).
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:22:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:
Maybe I made a mistake when I said scope. I am new to this whole optics thing I have only used iron sights on my A2. Or the scope on my hunting rifle.

I need a optic that is going to help me aquire targets fast in a cqb situation and also can be used as a aid at 75 yards for determaning targets.


You should consider the EOTech, it have a large 65 MOA ring for close work and a 1 MOA dot that is used for longer ranges.

Another good brand is the Aimpoint, the new models now has 2 MOA dot size but the 4 MOA size models are still available.

The Aimpoint have more battery life, knob switch control and the EOTech have an auto off feature of either 4 or 8 hours and push button controls, both are considered among the best and are used by the US military.

I'm a long time Aimpoint user since the '90s but my favorite now is the EOTech.

I have both brands and try each one first to pick which one you like better, you can't go wrong with either one.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:30:46 AM EDT
I'll second Phoebus. I just received the IOR 3x25 QR-TS. Absolutely love it. USAOptics.net hooked me up. $579, free carry handle mount and free shipping.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:54:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 8:09:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phoebus:
IOR 3x25 CQB

www.cactustactical.com/art/valdada/3x25.jpg



How 'bout the IOR?
I never hear much about it. Does anyone have any experience with one?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 8:32:37 AM EDT
If you're going to look at IOR, take a look at their 1.1-4x -- its a poor mans short dot. I'm running one with a new 5.56mm bullet drop reticle and I like it. http://www.valdada.com
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:04:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar556223:

Originally Posted By Phoebus:
IOR 3x25 CQB

www.cactustactical.com/art/valdada/3x25.jpg



How 'bout the IOR?
I never hear much about it. Does anyone have any experience with one?



I like it better than my ACOG, and use it occasionally on my designated marksman rifle here in Iraq. It has better glass than the ACOG, and I really like the CQB reticle. IOR scopes in general are a great bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:19:48 AM EDT
3rd Gen. Tripower. Very fast and accurate. Just like an ACOG without magnification but also has battery back-up for a bright reticle that won't go dark when doing entries!!! The Cheveron is more precise than the Aimpoints dot and doesn't bloom and is's just as fast and accurate as an Eotech. The best of both worlds!!! Just my 2 cents!!!
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:20:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:
I am looking for a good optic. I will primarily be using it for CQB but will use it sometimes up to 75 yards.



Aimpoint or Eotech.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:21:29 AM EDT
TR21R
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:28:55 AM EDT
what about the Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2


Product Highlights
Now, in addition to our 3x – 9x MR/T, you have the Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2 for greater versatility in mid-range scenarios.

Product Specifications
Actual Magnification: 1.5(1.5) 4.5(5)
Length (in): 9.3
Eyepiece Length (in): 3.1
Objective Length (in): N/A
Objective Diameter (in): 1.2
Eyepiece Diameter (in): 1.7
Tube Diameter: 30mm
Weight: 15.0 oz. / 425 grams
Eye Relief (in): 4.4(1.5) 3.6(5)
Eye Relief (mm): 112(1.5) 91(5)
Obj. Lens Diameter: 0.8in / 20mm
Max. Adjustment @ 100 yds (in): 80
FOV @ 100 yds (ft): 65.7(1.5) 23.7(5)
FOV @ 100 m (m): 7.9(1.5) 21.9(5)
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:35:22 AM EDT
Well since no one asked yet that I could see, what are you looking to spend?

I run a Leupold VX-II 1-4x20 with a duplex retical and it plays the general use optic role rather well and I only had to pay about $250 for it. I use it for everything from CQB stuff to shooting longer range and it does everything that I ask it to rather well. True it's not illuminated and it sure isn't a range finding retical(if you know how to use it though it can be used to give rough ranges). But it has taken the hard use that it gets on my gun.

Just another option to consider.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:43:21 AM EDT
BUDGET?
- #1 Question we should all ask

Work?
- Is this for fun or real work? Real work excludes the cheap stuff (seek optics in the $400-1000). For fun, go cheap.

Flat top or Carry Handle?
Some mounts are cheaper than others. If you buy some scopes, you also need to factor in another $100 for a mount (unless you go EO TECH).

Also, how are your eyes? 75yards is NOT far (I just came back from AF so I'm a bit biased).
- if your eyes sux like mine, you need magnification - like 3x. If not, no magnification is necessary. Honestly, I carried an M4 w/ACOG and I hated the fact in CQB work that I had to train myself for eye relief. (I changed it out with an EO TECH I got from C4iGrant - plug)

Night Vision?
Does it need to be night vision compatible? If not, keep the cost down by purchasing models that do NOT have a NV setting

I hope I didnt stir the pot or cause mass confusion.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:18:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:
Maybe I made a mistake when I said scope. I am new to this whole optics thing I have only used iron sights on my A2. Or the scope on my hunting rifle.

I need a optic that is going to help me aquire targets fast in a cqb situation and also can be used as a aid at 75 yards for determaning targets.




I don't know what you would be shooting at that at only 75 yards you need help in identifying it, but since that is one of your given parameters then all the red dots like the AimPoint and Eotech are out, since they provide no magnification and will not help you identify your target any better than just looking at it.

A low magnification scope that provides an illuminated retical is what you want. I would recomend either the Leupold CQ/T or the Trijicon AccuPoint. I went with the CQ/T and it's very nice. A friend has the AccuPoint on his gun and it is also very nice. The AccuPoint is cheaper but needs a mount, the CQ/T has a built in mount.

Good Luck
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 12:32:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:25:49 PM EDT
I'll vote for the EoTech. They're reasonable priced, EXTREMELY FAST, capable of good precision, and don't require a separate mount. That's the opinion of a long time Aimpoint user...
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:15:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ROK:
BUDGET?
- #1 Question we should all ask

Work?
- Is this for fun or real work? Real work excludes the cheap stuff (seek optics in the $400-1000). For fun, go cheap.

Flat top or Carry Handle?
Some mounts are cheaper than others. If you buy some scopes, you also need to factor in another $100 for a mount (unless you go EO TECH).

Also, how are your eyes? 75yards is NOT far (I just came back from AF so I'm a bit biased).
- if your eyes sux like mine, you need magnification - like 3x. If not, no magnification is necessary. Honestly, I carried an M4 w/ACOG and I hated the fact in CQB work that I had to train myself for eye relief. (I changed it out with an EO TECH I got from C4iGrant - plug)

Night Vision?
Does it need to be night vision compatible? If not, keep the cost down by purchasing models that do NOT have a NV setting

I hope I didnt stir the pot or cause mass confusion.



Budget is under a thousand.

Sorta work, more fun. I am doing tactical competitons and events like that. IDPA stages where most of you know time is critical. Defensive rifle course that you have to proceed through a house and engage all targets and then exit to the end on the house and proceed to engage five targets at 75 yards. Some with hard cover and some with out.

Its a flattop

My eyes are 20/30-20/40 I do not wear glasses.

Night vision would be nice in the future for hunting wolfs in low light.

I would just like to thank everyone for there help and support in making a correct decision.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:39:52 AM EDT
I also own an Aimpoint and an EOTech. Both have advantages. I'd suggest going to a shop that carries both and handle each. A few things on each, hardly a complete list:

Aimpoint - not every store has that battery on the shelf
- may require purchase of additional mount if you do not like the factory one (most ppl buy others)
- KillFlash are available (if you think you may want/need one)
- can take a beating / military uses it

EOTech - if you buy a AA model - AA battteries in any store
- No additional mount needed
- Auto Off feature
- can take a beating / military uses it

Just my 2 cents, Sua Sponte,
Prib
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:47:18 AM EDT
If I want to swap between a DCH and the EOTech, what is the best EOTech mount to get that isn't overpriced?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:46:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
If I want to swap between a DCH and the EOTech, what is the best EOTech mount to get that isn't overpriced?



LaRue - if anything it's underpriced for what you get.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:46:08 AM EDT
-IOR 3x25 CQB optics how is the battery life ?
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 11:17:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:
I am looking for a good optic. I will primarily be using it for CQB but will use it sometimes up to 75 yards.



I would vote for the EOtech. Since I was in the Army using the advanced sights and thermal imaging from a 120mm M1 tank on down to a bunch of other weapons, I would say that EOtech would be a good consideration.

I just got the 551 a little over a week ago and I am very impressed. So much so, that I ordered the model 552 for my other M4 type Bushmaster.
Also I found it very easy to scorch the bullseye about every 2 seconds or less at 50 yards, after I had zeroed and cowitnessed the reticle to the sights. And as for CQB, I think it would work great, or maybe there would not be so many out in the field now nailing down the enemy. It also shoots great with both eyes open, giving you a better view of your area.

Whatever you pick I wish you luck in your pick because there are a great deal of items to consider.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:37:00 PM EDT
Does the 551 AA or 510AA come with the large knurled thumb nut? If so, that's about the only thing I would really need.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 4:42:34 PM EDT by GroundFire201]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Since you are only shooting out to 75yds, I wouldn't look any farther than an EOTech or Aimpoint.


C4

www.GRTactical.com




+1


Eotech's dot a big dot with big glass and is easy to see peripherally. Very good for CQB in a SWAT team type engagement.

Aimpoint ML3/M3;
- more durable, so you dont have to worry about breaking the glass
- 50,000 hours battery life, so you can leave it on all the time for quick use
- has an anti reflective device (ARD), so you wont get glare to expose your position
Same as EOtech but more for military use where your in the woods and are in harsher environments.

ACOG with Doc optic (red dot)
- if I had to take a head shot in a hostage situation I would use my TA31 even at 25 yrds.

With that in mind, I have the AP and ACOG. Have to get the Dr Optic still. Will let you know how it works when I get one.

Also the new ELCANs are comming out but way over priced. Have all the features plus adjustable mag 1-4x.




EDITED to add:

If you in the military the forget about the EOTech and go AimPoint and always have a BUIS!
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=269656
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:40:12 PM EDT
I have an Aimpoint, Eotech, and Leopold MR/T 1.5x5. I only use the Leupold now, as I'm just as fast for CQB as with the others, and much more accurate beyond 50 yds. It is not as forgiving for parallax or eye relief so takes more practice, but the results are worth it for me.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:08:57 PM EDT
I got the Aimpoint ML2 and eotech 551

Both are good to go! I cant say I like one better than the other?
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:21:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
TR21R




Word! www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=23&t=330023




Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:17:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Does the 551 AA or 510AA come with the large knurled thumb nut? If so, that's about the only thing I would really need.



The model 551 uses the 1.5v N-type batteries and not the AA, but the 552 does use the AA lithium, alkaline or rechargeable batteries. Sorry about any info on the 510 because I have not messed around with that one. I'm sure someone here would know. Here is a pic of my 551 nut on the Bushmaster, and the other small allen wrench deal in the box. Hope this helps some for ya.

http://www.geocities.com/handcannon_99/eotech551.jpg
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:45:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GroundedCLK:

Originally Posted By ROK:
BUDGET?
- #1 Question we should all ask

Work?
- Is this for fun or real work? Real work excludes the cheap stuff (seek optics in the $400-1000). For fun, go cheap.

Flat top or Carry Handle?
Some mounts are cheaper than others. If you buy some scopes, you also need to factor in another $100 for a mount (unless you go EO TECH).

Also, how are your eyes? 75yards is NOT far (I just came back from AF so I'm a bit biased).
- if your eyes sux like mine, you need magnification - like 3x. If not, no magnification is necessary. Honestly, I carried an M4 w/ACOG and I hated the fact in CQB work that I had to train myself for eye relief. (I changed it out with an EO TECH I got from C4iGrant - plug)

Night Vision?
Does it need to be night vision compatible? If not, keep the cost down by purchasing models that do NOT have a NV setting

I hope I didnt stir the pot or cause mass confusion.



Budget is under a thousand.
- EO Tech is well within your budget and you'll have enough change for a flashlight.

Sorta work, more fun. I am doing tactical competitons and events like that. IDPA stages where most of you know time is critical. Defensive rifle course that you have to proceed through a house and engage all targets and then exit to the end on the house and proceed to engage five targets at 75 yards. Some with hard cover and some with out.
- Again I recommend EO Tech. Mine has taken a beating and it still keeps working (taking it with me again on next 90 day rotation). The smaller targets at 75 yards will be a bit more difficult than say with an 3x ACOG (NSN Model) - but EO Tech is still quicker. I qualified with mine out to 300m.

Its a flattop
- EO Tech. No extra $$$ for mounting.

My eyes are 20/30-20/40 I do not wear glasses.
- EO Tech. Your eyes are pretty good. You should have no problems engaging from this distance.

Night vision would be nice in the future for hunting wolfs in low light.
- Some EO Tech models come w/NV setting.

I would just like to thank everyone for there help and support in making a correct decision.



Best of luck. Now, the next question is, who to purchase the optic from...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:53:12 PM EDT
You need help determining CQB targets at 75 yards?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:55:45 PM EDT
i heard that ATNs 6-18x56 were the best and that is why all the marines use them
up to 75yrds...aimpoint, eotech, trijicon reflex..all good choices..mainly preference. pick one of those or just stick to irons
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 11:14:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 11:16:04 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
I totally agree, you need a red dot sight. I have both an EOTech (on my shotgun) and an Aimpoint (on my AR). Either will work TOTALLY well for you.

The EOTech is less expensive, overall. The 1MOA dot in the center of the circle is a little better than the 4 MOA red dot in the Aimpoint when the distances start to grow longer - it covers less of the target. The EOTech also has that 65 MOA ring. When the distances get really close in, that will be the fastest thing going.

Red dot sights overall, are way faster than irons or magnified scopes.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:07:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 6:08:59 AM EDT by GroundedCLK]
I need it for a aid when engaging targets at 75 yards after completing my cqb stage.

Thank you everyone for your help. The general thought here seems to be a Eotech. So I am going to go ahead and order the 552 from GRTactical this coming month. They seem to have the best price correct me if I am wrong. Again thank you to everyone here who responded.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:10:46 AM EDT
I shoot tighter groups using the standard A2/A3 iron sights versus using the red dot.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:18:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I shoot tighter groups using the standard A2/A3 iron sights versus using the red dot.



I also shoot tighter groups with standards sights. What I do has nothing to do with tighter groups just proper shot placement in the shortest amount of time. The best and fastest way to do that is a red dot sight. Well for me anyways. Just with so many out there it becomes hard to pick the right one. Which I hope the fine people here did just that for me.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:02:47 AM EDT
Got a 3 x 25 which is great except the hex screw arrangement for lossening the turret caps - I loosened mine too much, thety popped out and can't get them back in.....anybody know a IOR dealer/service agent in the UK????
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:57:35 AM EDT
i'll have to go back through the FM again, but I thought I read somewhere that in CQ engagements, you can just put the front sight somewhere in relation to the target to do "snap shots" instead of sighting through both sights (slower).
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:00:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Does the 551 AA or 510AA come with the large knurled thumb nut? If so, that's about the only thing I would really need.



Both the 552 and the 512 (AA powered variants) come with the knob.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:09:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackRifleBrit:
Got a 3 x 25 which is great except the hex screw arrangement for lossening the turret caps - I loosened mine too much, thety popped out and can't get them back in.....anybody know a IOR dealer/service agent in the UK????



From Scott Powers (of Sniper Country) review of the IOR 2.5-10x42:

"being a former straight leg, and not particularly bright, I naturally removed both of the set screws BEFORE reading the directions. Bad move. The internal drum drops down and the provided set screws are NOT going to reach it to bring it back up. READ THE DIRECTIONS folks. Let me be the moron who experiments for you. This little faux pax resulted in a quick hop to the hardware store for a longer screw, which I used to bring the internal drum back up into position where I could then use the provided -- and not to be removed -- set screws. Lesson learned and no harm done. Read the instructions first and don't assume!"

In other words, go to the hardware store, purchase a longer screw in the same size and pitch, then use it to raise the internal drum. Then install one of your factory IOR screws in the "other" hole. After it's snug, remove the longer screw and install the factory screw in that hole.

No real harm done
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:49:14 AM EDT
Ain't the internet great?!
Top Top