NEW 1-4X red dot by ELCAN looks like the CATS ASS!!! - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - NEW 1-4X red dot by ELCAN looks like the CATS ASS!!! (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 10/8/2005 7:27:53 PM EDT

[#1]

WOW... to the sight and Larry's toys.

Posted: 10/8/2005 8:55:02 PM EDT

[#2]

S&B Short Dot, meet your match.

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:18:50 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
S&B Short Dot, meet your match.

Shlicka, it's sad that our most exciting option on a black rifle is optics. Damn it, it should be related to the Happy Switch, Suppressors in a short-barreled package.

Going to bed on that note

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:32:52 PM EDT

[#4]

I like it. But i think my VISA would not like it

Posted: 10/8/2005 9:37:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Looks like what came out the cat's ass maybe.

Posted: 10/8/2005 10:14:13 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Looks like they carried over the external sighting adjustments of the ELCAN to this new design.

Yep, yuck.

Posted: 10/9/2005 3:13:05 AM EDT

[#7]

NOW THAT IS REALLY SLICK

Posted: 10/9/2005 6:28:51 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
S&B Short Dot, meet your match.

Shlicka, it's sad that our most exciting option on a black rifle is optics. Damn it, it should be related to the Happy Switch, Suppressors in a short-barreled package.

Going to bed on that note

Check my sig line.

While not exactly what we're lokking for, it ('86 MG Ban and mayeb even NFA) can be overturned.

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:42:22 AM EDT

[#9]

I've never heard a good thing about the very old and out dated external scope adjustments the ELCANs have. It looks like this model has the same style adjustments... I'll move this to optics where it belongs.

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:44:12 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
S&B Short Dot, meet your match.

Shlicka, it's sad that our most exciting option on a black rifle is optics. Damn it, it should be related to the Happy Switch, Suppressors in a short-barreled package.

Going to bed on that note

Check my sig line.

While not exactly what we're lokking for, it ('86 MG Ban and mayeb even NFA) can be overturned.

Absolutely......now, back to the lustful optics we can put on our semi-auto ARs

Posted: 10/9/2005 12:00:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Well we will be getting one to test soon.

I will let you know the verdict.

FREE

Posted: 10/9/2005 1:15:08 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they carried over the external sighting adjustments of the ELCAN to this new design.

Yep, yuck.

That large knob on the left side is the "Illumination adjustment" (link to product .pdf)

I am not sure what the 'old' Elcan reference is, but this shouldn't be much of a factor - good or bad should it?

Posted: 10/9/2005 2:25:06 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Well we will be getting one to test soon.

I will let you know the verdict.

FREE

Thanks.

Posted: 10/9/2005 4:03:48 PM EDT

[#14]

I handled one of the Specter DR sights and spoke to the Elcan rep at one of the military shows recently. Here's my comments:

1. It's a nice optic. Great fit and finish and it offers the 1x or 4x capability.
2. It's an expensive optic. $1,250 USD according to Elcan rep.
3. It's not available yet. - still in limited pre-production mode.
4. The 1x does not have unlimited eye relief like an Aimpoint or EOTech, so I don't think it will be as fast on target or forgiving in CQB environments.
5. It does have a BDC reticle that only works on the 4x setting.
6. The dot is big (4 MOA or bigger?) They wouldn't tell me how big it was - it's a secret.
7. It only has 5 brightness settings -one being the NV setting - but they did say they might add more settings before full production.
8. A simple throw lever flips internal lenses back and forth from 1x and 4x - a nice feature.
9. Two ARMS levers mount it - a USSOCOM requirement.
10. It still uses external adjustments for windage and elevation - for good or bad.
11. the additional iron sights are a nicely done - but totally useless in my opinion. (I believe they can put a Doctor Optic on it as well.)
12. Uses a special button cell battery to power the red dot. Don't know what one or the run time. They wouldn't tell me - it's too secret!
13. The BDC reticle is not illuminated like an ACOG but is still visible if the battery fails.

Posted: 10/9/2005 4:10:30 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I handled one of the Specter DR sights and spoke to the Elcan rep at one of the military shows recently. Here's my comments:

1. It's a nice optic. Great fit and finish and it offers the 1x or 4x capability.
2. It's an expensive optic. $1,250 USD according to Elcan rep.
3. It's not available yet. - still in limited pre-production mode.
4. The 1x does not have unlimited eye relief like an Aimpoint or EOTech, so I don't think it will be as fast on target or forgiving in CQB environments.
5. It does have a BDC reticle that only works on the 4x setting.
6. The dot is big (4 MOA or bigger?) They wouldn't tell me how big it was - it's a secret.
7. It only has 5 brightness settings -one being the NV setting - but they did say they might add more settings before full production.
8. A simple throw lever flips internal lenses back and forth from 1x and 4x - a nice feature.
9. Two ARMS levers mount it - a USSOCOM requirement.
10. It still uses external adjustments for windage and elevation - for good or bad.
11. the additional iron sights are a nicely done - but totally useless in my opinion. (I believe they can put a Doctor Optic on it as well.)
12. Uses a special button cell battery to power the red dot. Don't know what one or the run time. They wouldn't tell me - it's too secret!
13. The BDC reticle is not illuminated like an ACOG but is still visible if the battery fails.

I don't think 1250 is alot for this class, or alot period for that matter.

Posted: 10/9/2005 4:14:21 PM EDT

[#16]

I just bought the Hakko clone off of ebay for $176.27. Its called the Hak-Can, even comes with clone ARMS mounts......will post pics soon.

Posted: 10/9/2005 4:14:52 PM EDT

[#17]

Posted: 10/9/2005 4:29:44 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I handled one of the Specter DR sights and spoke to the Elcan rep at one of the military shows recently. Here's my comments:

1. It's a nice optic. Great fit and finish and it offers the 1x or 4x capability.
2. It's an expensive optic. $1,250 USD according to Elcan rep.
3. It's not available yet. - still in limited pre-production mode.
4. The 1x does not have unlimited eye relief like an Aimpoint or EOTech, so I don't think it will be as fast on target or forgiving in CQB environments.
5. It does have a BDC reticle that only works on the 4x setting.
6. The dot is big (4 MOA or bigger?) They wouldn't tell me how big it was - it's a secret.
7. It only has 5 brightness settings -one being the NV setting - but they did say they might add more settings before full production.
8. A simple throw lever flips internal lenses back and forth from 1x and 4x - a nice feature.
9. Two ARMS levers mount it - a USSOCOM requirement.
10. It still uses external adjustments for windage and elevation - for good or bad.
11. the additional iron sights are a nicely done - but totally useless in my opinion. (I believe they can put a Doctor Optic on it as well.)
12. Uses a special button cell battery to power the red dot. Don't know what one or the run time. They wouldn't tell me - it's too secret!
13. The BDC reticle is not illuminated like an ACOG but is still visible if the battery fails.

I don't think 1250 is alot for this class, or alot period for that matter.

Not as bad as an S&B Short Dot though!

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:01:23 PM EDT

[#19]

Since when is the BDC on an ACOG illuminated?

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:25:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Just what kind of mount does one use to attach a cats ass to a flat top? Does the cats head fit over a free float front end? Will it fit in a standard tactical case with the cats tail fully extended?...

FFF

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:33:26 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Since when is the BDC on an ACOG illuminated?

Since the TA01 was introduced... at night anyway.

Posted: 10/9/2005 7:54:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Since when is the BDC on an ACOG illuminated?

Since the TA01 was introduced... at night anyway.

Roger.
My experience is with TA31s.

Posted: 10/9/2005 8:26:59 PM EDT

[#23]

Does anyone know what MOA the dot is?

Posted: 10/10/2005 5:39:09 AM EDT

[#24]

Looks like 2MOA to me..

Posted: 10/10/2005 5:42:44 AM EDT

[#25]

tag

Posted: 10/10/2005 6:37:09 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they carried over the external sighting adjustments of the ELCAN to this new design.

Yep, yuck.

That large knob on the left side is the "Illumination adjustment" (link to product .pdf)

I am not sure what the 'old' Elcan reference is, but this shouldn't be much of a factor - good or bad should it?

Well, externally adjusted optics are a pet peeve of mine. Instead of making adjustments internally they have knobs and screws and cams externally in the mount itself. This set up was fairly common in early post war combat optics (not talking about sniper scopes). The Trilux SUIT, and the Russian 1P29 were both early post war combat optics that had external adjustments. The advantage at the time is that optics can be fragile, and can loose zero if struck hard. So theory was that the zero would be retained after an impact.

One disadvantage is the weight, these things are heavy.

With use slop develops in the adjustment mechanism. On well used externally adjusted optics you can grab hold of the optic housing and move the optic around on the mount. I had an Elcan that had about 10 minutes of angle of slop in the mount.

This method of securing the optic to the weapon is not as solid as in other designs. While the cross hairs in the optic can remain intact without shifting, the entire optic can come loose from the mount after an impact.

Elcan continues to upgrade their mount/base what ever you want to call it. Each version was supposed to correct the shortcomings of the previous, think they are on Gen IV now? Has it been corrected, I doubt it.

Posted: 10/10/2005 6:57:44 AM EDT

[#27]

Nice but too rich for my blood. I'll grab someone's old trijicon when they sell it to get this.

Posted: 10/10/2005 8:27:00 AM EDT

[#28]

I like the look of it!

Mike @ CSGW

www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]

Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks

Posted: 10/10/2005 1:18:37 PM EDT

[#29]

Didn't Kevin mention that the external adjustments could and would get frozen or get gummed up with mud?

Posted: 10/10/2005 2:05:02 PM EDT

[#30]

It's bad enough that I can't afford an Aimpoint, now this??? Something else to have fantasies about.

Posted: 10/13/2005 4:22:15 PM EDT

[#31]

Tagged.

Posted: 10/13/2005 8:39:12 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Didn't Kevin mention that the external adjustments could and would get frozen or get gummed up with mud?

Yes, many times.

Posted: 10/14/2005 2:41:32 AM EDT

[#33]

so would the 'not-so-into-acog-but-hate-external-adjustment' crowd prefer the usoptics SN12? I know I'm tempted.

Posted: 10/14/2005 2:47:44 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they carried over the external sighting adjustments of the ELCAN to this new design.

Yep, yuck.

That large knob on the left side is the "Illumination adjustment" (link to product .pdf)

I am not sure what the 'old' Elcan reference is, but this shouldn't be much of a factor - good or bad should it?

Well, externally adjusted optics are a pet peeve of mine. Instead of making adjustments internally they have knobs and screws and cams externally in the mount itself. This set up was fairly common in early post war combat optics (not talking about sniper scopes). The Trilux SUIT, and the Russian 1P29 were both early post war combat optics that had external adjustments. The advantage at the time is that optics can be fragile, and can loose zero if struck hard. So theory was that the zero would be retained after an impact.

One disadvantage is the weight, these things are heavy.

With use slop develops in the adjustment mechanism. On well used externally adjusted optics you can grab hold of the optic housing and move the optic around on the mount. I had an Elcan that had about 10 minutes of angle of slop in the mount.

This method of securing the optic to the weapon is not as solid as in other designs. While the cross hairs in the optic can remain intact without shifting, the entire optic can come loose from the mount after an impact.

Elcan continues to upgrade their mount/base what ever you want to call it. Each version was supposed to correct the shortcomings of the previous, think they are on Gen IV now? Has it been corrected, I doubt it.

I realize Elcan problems may be well documented re: these external adjustment aspects, but what is the alternative?

Optics will get whacked around. Even with 'the Texan's' mount . It would seem that having adjustments would be a bonus- IF they were durable enough outside a laboratory.

After all, the ACOG has adjustments..

seriously, how should it be?

I would hope Elcan would change a problem area, if it were that well documented.

just a thought.

Posted: 10/14/2005 3:57:49 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
so would the 'not-so-into-acog-but-hate-external-adjustment' crowd prefer the usoptics SN12? I know I'm tempted.

The SN12 has zero close range ability and because US Optics cant do BAC because of the dim illumination and sub 12 hour battery life in the SN4 I am personally not interested in any of their scopes. Their scopes are also excessively heavy compared to the competition most of the time as well though the SN12 is noticably trimmer than their other scopes.

Posted: 10/14/2005 4:01:13 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they carried over the external sighting adjustments of the ELCAN to this new design.

Yep, yuck.

That large knob on the left side is the "Illumination adjustment" (link to product .pdf)

I am not sure what the 'old' Elcan reference is, but this shouldn't be much of a factor - good or bad should it?

Well, externally adjusted optics are a pet peeve of mine. Instead of making adjustments internally they have knobs and screws and cams externally in the mount itself. This set up was fairly common in early post war combat optics (not talking about sniper scopes). The Trilux SUIT, and the Russian 1P29 were both early post war combat optics that had external adjustments. The advantage at the time is that optics can be fragile, and can loose zero if struck hard. So theory was that the zero would be retained after an impact.

One disadvantage is the weight, these things are heavy.

With use slop develops in the adjustment mechanism. On well used externally adjusted optics you can grab hold of the optic housing and move the optic around on the mount. I had an Elcan that had about 10 minutes of angle of slop in the mount.

This method of securing the optic to the weapon is not as solid as in other designs. While the cross hairs in the optic can remain intact without shifting, the entire optic can come loose from the mount after an impact.

Elcan continues to upgrade their mount/base what ever you want to call it. Each version was supposed to correct the shortcomings of the previous, think they are on Gen IV now? Has it been corrected, I doubt it.

I realize Elcan problems may be well documented re: these external adjustment aspects, but what is the alternative?

Optics will get whacked around. Even with 'the Texan's' mount . It would seem that having adjustments would be a bonus- IF they were durable enough outside a laboratory.

After all, the ACOG has adjustments..

seriously, how should it be?

I would hope Elcan would change a problem area, if it were that well documented.

just a thought.

The adjustments should be internal adjustments like every other scope to include the ACOG. Has Elcan ever made internally adjustable optics? They know its a weak point but would rather keep trying to polish a turd than admit its a bad design and go to internal adjustmaents like everyone else.

Posted: 10/14/2005 4:12:08 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
so would the 'not-so-into-acog-but-hate-external-adjustment' crowd prefer the usoptics SN12? I know I'm tempted.

The SN12 has zero close range ability and because US Optics cant do BAC because of the dim illumination and sub 12 hour battery life in the SN4 I am personally not interested in any of their scopes. Their scopes are also excessively heavy compared to the competition most of the time as well though the SN12 is noticably trimmer than their other scopes.

from the looks of it, its like the SN4 without the variable eyepiece. Just IMO.

Posted: 11/10/2005 5:34:55 PM EDT

[#38]

I think It looks like a toy model train hinking.gif

...Why yes, I am jealous I can't afford it

Posted: 11/10/2005 9:50:47 PM EDT

[#39]

Looks neat but ARMS levers are gross!

Posted: 11/11/2005 9:49:56 AM EDT

[#40]

When will we get a 1-4x ACOG?

Posted: 11/11/2005 10:12:35 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
When will we get a 1-4x ACOG?

Accupoint.

Posted: 11/11/2005 11:37:59 AM EDT

[#42]

We have them on order!

www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]
Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks

Posted: 11/11/2005 12:00:35 PM EDT

[#43]

Anyword on when they'll ship? And can I get on a waiting list?

Posted: 11/11/2005 1:50:46 PM EDT

[#44]

Wow that game is poorly made. The target at 500meters would be the width of the horizontal 5 line. Not five times that.

The sight looks great though and for the price I may even buy one if the y become availible and get sold here. (in other words I am not going to watch it until it becomes availible and track one down.)

Love the 1-4 idea and the balistic reticle. Like an ACOG without the really terrible eye relief and the fixed 4x magnification. Maybe it will be a true four power too.

Posted: 11/12/2005 6:21:21 AM EDT

[#45]

NEW 1-4X red dot by ELCAN looks like the CATS ASS!!!

VERY COOL !!

Posted: 11/13/2005 3:59:24 AM EDT

[#46]

Tag

Posted: 11/13/2005 4:31:14 AM EDT

[#47]

This may have been covered, but it seems this optic is going to be part of the SOPMOD Block II enhancements.........along with a really impressive night vision device and other upgrades.

The link--->

SOPMOD Block I, II, and III Note pages 19- 28 fro Elcan reference and New Night Vision Device

Posted: 11/13/2005 5:29:13 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When will we get a 1-4x ACOG?

Accupoint.

True, but I would like to see one with a wider field of view similar to the ACOG at 4X.

Posted: 11/13/2005 8:58:09 AM EDT

[#49]

Great

something else that won't hold a zero...

Posted: 11/13/2005 9:27:07 AM EDT

[#50]

sopmod doc says that the elcan is currently being tested against an acog with doc optic on top of it. I don't know enogh about eiter to comment, but it would seem one unit would be the obvious choice, no?

the second I can get this elcan, I will. no doubt.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - NEW 1-4X red dot by ELCAN looks like the CATS ASS!!! (Page 2 of 4)

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