Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think, I'd pay more to have Burris standing behind the warranty rather than "SPOT", but that's just me... Well I would prefer to trust a guy I know personally (rather than some corporation), but that's just me. C4 Having dealt personally with Burris in the past, I think I'll stay with them rather than your buddy.

Your choice, but Ned of MSP is good people and stands behind his products. They also support the board (something Burris does not do).


C4

Quoted: Quoted: As far as  I know the Burris passes all my requirements. My problem is that it is virtually identical to the SPOT and as far as I can tell isn't any better (just more money). This is why I don't stock it. C4 You never have answered if the SPOT is waterproof, Burris says the Xtreme is. Why does Burris say the Xtreme is gtg for all uses, but SPOT explicitly says their optic is for plinking only. Are they "virtually identical" or not? I'll take the Burris backed warranty anyday over someone I have never heard of. Burris has a very well deserved reputation that they uphold. . . Isn't there an ARMS thread somewhere you need to hijack?

Hmmm let't see, Burris WANTS to get into the LE/Military game. What do you think they would say??? "No our product is really only for target shooting."

I have submerged the SPOT in water and didn't see any water inside. The SPOT has also been thrown out of a car doing 35MPH and worked just fine.

So you have NEVER heard of Mounting Solutions Plus??? They are an Industry Partner and the ONLY Aimpoint and ARMS Distributors in the country.

Don't confuse telling the truth about a product with hijacking it.



C4

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far as  I know the Burris passes all my requirements. My problem is that it is virtually identical to the SPOT and as far as I can tell isn't any better (just more money). This is why I don't stock it. C4 You never have answered if the SPOT is waterproof, Burris says the Xtreme is. Why does Burris say the Xtreme is gtg for all uses, but SPOT explicitly says their optic is for plinking only. Are they "virtually identical" or not? I'll take the Burris backed warranty anyday over someone I have never heard of. Burris has a very well deserved reputation that they uphold. . . Isn't there an ARMS thread somewhere you need to hijack? There is no doubt that Grant is quite knowledgeable about optics.  The problem is, he has a disdain for any optic that he chooses not to carry.  Like it or not, there are plenty of good quality optics that are out there that may not meet "his" requirements.   So, instead of allowing end users to evaluate and discuss the Burris, he will come in and pitch a product that he happens to stock.

While I appreciate you talking for me, at least try and get it right. There are TONS of optics that I do not stock that I think are great (S&B, NightForce, Elcan, etc). Hell one of my favorite optics is a Burris Black Diamond (which I personally own and use).

My point about the Burris and the SPOT is that as far as I can see they are same animal and the SPOT is less money. Call me crazy, but I was just trying to save some folks money.


C4

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As far as  I know the Burris passes all my requirements. My problem is that it is virtually identical to the SPOT and as far as I can tell isn't any better (just more money). This is why I don't stock it. C4 You never have answered if the SPOT is waterproof, Burris says the Xtreme is. Why does Burris say the Xtreme is gtg for all uses, but SPOT explicitly says their optic is for plinking only. Are they "virtually identical" or not? I'll take the Burris backed warranty anyday over someone I have never heard of. Burris has a very well deserved reputation that they uphold. . . Isn't there an ARMS thread somewhere you need to hijack? There is no doubt that Grant is quite knowledgeable about optics.  The problem is, he has a disdain for any optic that he chooses not to carry.  Like it or not, there are plenty of good quality optics that are out there that may not meet "his" requirements.   So, instead of allowing end users to evaluate and discuss the Burris, he will come in and pitch a product that he happens to stock.   While I appreciate you talking for me, at least try and get it right. There are TONS of optics that I do not stock that I think are great (S&B, NightForce, Elcan, etc). Hell one of my favorite optics is a Burris Black Diamond (which I personally own and use). My point about the Burris and the SPOT is that as far as I can see they are same animal and the SPOT is less money. Call me crazy, but I was just trying to save some folks money. C4 Or were you just trying to make a sale? If you recall, this was your very first entry into this thread... Make you a deal, if the SPOT doesn't make it I will replace and or refund your money.

Incase you didn't notice I AM a PAYING dealer on this board. Someone was concerned that the SPOT wouldn't hold up to .308 recoil. I responded that I would gurantee that it would or our money back. Seems to me win win situation for the customer.


C4

Attention to whom it may concern:

Many of our favorite companies out there have other companies making them optics and they put their name on it.  Here are a few examples below.  We sell Burris and the SPOT you can get ether one from us if you would like.  If you would like to say the one that has Burris’s name on it is made by Burris so be it.  

Yukon & Hakko are names you hardly hear about and they are the ones that make a lot of scopes for other companies.  They have made optics for Tasco, Simmons, Bushnell, and so on.  Even the glass you look through only comes from a few sources.  Example Schott glass is used by a wide range of makes like USO, Zeiss, IOR, and even Burris to name a few.

I know Ned at M.S.P. also and he is a very stand up guy.  He will back up his items just as good as any of the well Known names out their.  Grant is another standup guy.  He will standup for what he believes in and is a great dealer also.  Burris is a great company to deal with and they will stand by their items also.  There are fewer and fewer companies out there like them but we are lucky to have them here at AR15.com.  
 

I hope I made sense.  

Thank you for your time  

Yukon:


Bushnell


Busnell:


EoTech:



Mike @ CSGW

www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]

Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks

Quoted: Quoted: Your choice, but Ned of MSP is good people and stands behind his products. They also support the board (something Burris does not do). I wish you were selling SPOT to the NOLA PD... You have any HSLD buddies down there (on the two way range, lol)?

I do have several customers down, but they generally run Aimpoint's and EOTech's.


C4

Quoted: I think this entire thread can be summarized that the XTS-135 is backed by Burris for law enforcement use and that the SPOT is a recreational optic. Some of the dealers on this board want us to think that the SPOT is virtually the same thing, but its own manual clearly states that it is for recreational use only. They can offer no proof that the innards of the SPOT are built to the same internal standard as the Burris. Look at rifle scopes for hunting. Many are put out by the same foreign optics houses with different brand names. Brand X can order fully multicoated lenses, stronger waterproofing seals and some really fancy features, while Brand Y can be made on the same line with cheaper internals. The SPOT "it's the same thing" crowd needs to put up or shut up. Take a Burris XTS-135 and a SPOT recreational optic apart side by side to see of they are really the same. The Burris is rated at waterproof while the SPOT plinker optic is not. There are different dot sizes. The Burris rep. I talked to said they also ordered beefed up click settings and other improvements. Burris recoil tested the Burris with some pretty stout rifles and pistols. BTW, I just spent a 10-hour day at a rapid response school for active shooting/killing situations that was conducted by my police department. We learned formations for moving through buildings, did live fire shooting from those formations and shot it out in a SIMS house and plywood forest.  I went through a pile of .45, .223 and 9mm simunitions ammo. The lessons learned at Columbine are that you form up in teams of 4 and go in and take out the shooters instead of containing and letting them continue their shooting spree. When you work as a team, the effects of 4 officers in formation is multiplied.

Both of these optics are made at the same factory. They are identical in looks.  If you think the Burris is more HSLD than the SPOT then that is your right. I am just saying from what I know that they are the same.

It also isn't a matter of Mike or I stocking one optic or the other. I can and WAS offered a chance to stock the Burris. I passed when I learned about the SPOT (as it is the same and cheaper).


C4

Quoted: Mr Grant, I need you to clarify your statment, "from what I know that they are the same." Again, because you don't pay attention to detail: dot size: 3 vs 4 waterproof rating internal upgrades claimed by Burris Manual stating the SPOT plinker dot is not intended for tactical use Burris rep. Gordon stating on the record that their product is intended for real-life tactical use. "From what I know" means you must be holding back information or are talking out of an orifice below your waist. Please cite your source on the record. Just because something looks similar does not mean the internal specifications are the same. A few beefed up waterproofing seals and ruggedized click adjustments could make a lot of difference in the real world. I started this post with the intent to determine if the Burris will hold up to general law enforcement use. You chimed in with a sales pitch for one of your products claiming it is the same with no evidence to the contrary. I will grant you that that the SPOT and Burris are similar, but not the same thing until proven otherwise.

Burris can say whatever they want ("rated for combat"). The company the brings the SPOT into the country is also the ONLY Aimpoint Distr. in the country. They know which optic is battle proven and which one isn't. This is why they say that the SPOT is for plinking (as it isn't as high quality as the Aimpoint).

If you like the Burris and think it is better than the SPOT (worth the extra money) then have at it! I just don't share this opinion.....



C4

Quoted: Quoted: Burris can say whatever they want ("rated for combat"). The company the brings the SPOT into the country is also the ONLY Aimpoint Distr. in the country. I do believe I've found the key statement. It sure would suck to be the only Aimpoint distributor in the country when a new cheaper alternative comes on the market. It is much more profitable to downplay the effectiveness of a competitor to your flagship line. Tell us C4, which product do YOU make more money off of? Lemme guess........ Aimpoint.

Well lets see, MSP BROUGHT the SPOT into the country!! Why would they do such a thing??? Oh wait I know! They thought it was a good quality optic for less money (for folks that can't afford Aimpoint).

Profit margins are better with the Aimpoint (no doubt). A lot of folks just want a quality optic for their 10/22, 9mm AR, etc and like the Aimpoint look and feel, but don't want to drop that much money (don't blame them).

I have to wonder why everyone is so concerned about this? Is it because they bought the Burris and are afraid they might have gotten the same quality for less money???



C4

I can't speak for anyone else bit I will tell you why I am concerned about it.  Many people come to the optics section to discuss a wide variety of optics varying in price and quality.  You have the attitude that if it isn't in the sandbox, then nobody hear should dare speak of it...unless its an optic you're selling.  I started the first Burris XTS thread and I begged people posting in it not to make it an Aimpoint comparison thread but you couldn't help yourself.  Then you started pitching Eotechs and SPOTs without ever handling a Burris XTS for yourself.   I had a choice when I bought my red dot.  I could have bought the XTS from an established optics company that I have been more than satisfied with in the past, or I could have bought an optic that I know nothing about other than it is named after a dog.  I don't feel the least bit sorry nor do I regret getting the XTS because it has done everything I need it to do and I have the peace of mind knowing that Burris will back it up.   People who have done business with you speak very highly of you and I have no doubt that you deserve that reputation and it could very possibly be me just misinterpretting your posts.  Perhaps you might change your mind if you actually get your hands on a Burris before you start offering alternatives.  I have never handled the SPOT which is exactly why I wouldn't try to talk someone out of getting one

FYI I go to the Shot Show every year. Guess what I am there for? To look for new gear. Guess what I HANDLED at the 2005 SS??? THe BURRIS XTS! Sooo no one is saying that the Burris junk or not a good buy. What myself and other dealers are telling you is that we think it is virtually same as the SPOT.

I am constantly amazed by some of the members on this board. I tell people to buy mil-spec optics (used if you cannot buy new) and I get chastized for it. I then find a good optic for less money that I think is quality and ISN'T made in CHINA and what do I get???? Chastised for saving folks money!!! I guess I just can't Fing win....


C4

Quoted: I passed on the SPOT, after doing my research and knowing the SPOT and Burris are extremely similar and made by the same company ?(btw: C4, weren't you the guy claiming the Burris was made in China?). I chose the Burris at the higher price because I trust in Burris's customer service and warranty. I also took note of the fact that Burris states that they feel their product is gtg for all uses and the SPOT manual says plinking only. Burris also says their product is waterproof, SPOT makes no such claims. So, I guess it all comes down to this, Burris (an established company with an excellent reputation) puts their claims in writing as to the quality of the product, thus putting their established, excellent reputation on the line, vs. SPOT, a behind the scenes importer/distributor unknown to the general public says that their product is for limited applications. I'll pay more for the Burris reputation and backing.

There was rumor that the XTS was made in China (as burris wouldn't answer the question at the time), but I don't think I stated that. Would you be shocked if I put the SPOT in a fish bowl and it survived. What if I thru it out of a moving car and it worked just fine. Done that with your XTS??? No you most likely haven't, but at least you have your piece of paper SAYING that it is GTG.



C4

Quoted: Just FYI. I've owned 2 Aimpoints, a Trijicon ACOG NSN, a Leupold CQT, and a EoTech 552f, as well a Burris XTS. One Aimpoint (bought used) crapped out after a year of light use, I don't blame anyone, you buy used you take your chances. The Trijicon had a badly tilted reticle and the tritium was extremely dim straight out of the box, also the BUIS on top drifted out of the dovetail in under 20 rounds. The Leupold would not light up the reticle straight out of the box, Leupold cs sucked, but luckily my dealer and his distributor made good on it. The EoTech would not hold zero straight out of the box. The other Aimpoint and the Burris have been perfect. So excuse me if I don't get all moist over "mil-spec" optics. The $250 Burris has been a better optic than the $2000 worth of ACOG/CQT/552.

No doubt! I just broke a $1,400 US Optics SN-4! So beat that! As a general rule, if I took 500 Mil-Spec Optics (Aimpoint/EOTech/ACOG) and 500 "other" optics out to the field and used them heavily, the Mil-Spec optics would win.


C4

Quoted: Quoted: Would you be shocked if I put the SPOT in a fish bowl and it survived. What if I thru it out of a moving car and it worked just fine. Done that with your XTS??? No you most likely haven't, but at least you have your piece of paper SAYING that it is GTG. C4 I could care less what your fish look at. And I don't intentionally abuse anything I buy with my money. I have a piece of paper backed by a reputable company saying its gtg. Hell a dollar bill is just a piece of paper, it's the entity backing it that defines its value.

Don't abuse your gear??? Then how will you know if it will make it when you need it to defend your life???

MSP will back their product 100% as well so no worries there.



C4

Quoted: Quoted: There was rumor that the XTS was made in China (as burris wouldn't answer the question at the time), but I don't think I stated that. C4 Hmmmmmmm.................. it appears that YOU did state that the Burris was made in China. LINK to C4's post Quoted: The SPOT is made in S. Korea, but it is my understanding that the Burris is made in China. C4

Well if I said it then I must of heard it somewhere (most likely from Burris at the SS). At that time they may have been shoping around for a manufacturer. Never said it was 100% correct, but what what I was told.


C4

Quoted: I said I don't deliberately abuse my equipment. There is a difference. . My AR rides unsecured in the cab of a 4wd PU in the desert Southwest. It is subjected to temperature extremes that can fluctuate by 30 to 40 degrees in a matter of hours. My job requires that 90% or so of my driving is in 4wd on un-maintained Right-of -ways. Across extremely rough desert terrain. The dust and heat are hell on optics and AR's. I carry the AR for personal protection when I am in the vicinity of the US/Mexico border (in extremely remote locations), and for popping the occasional coyote. So far, the Burris has held up to that use very well. . There is more than one "sandbox" in this world to test equipment in.

Good, thought I had another "range queen" on my hands that doesn't let his weapon get dirty or get dinged up. People forget that it is a tool to be used.



C4

Quoted: I have also completed two, multi-day carbine courses so far this year (Paul Howe and Steve Moses), and two more on the schedule. Not everyone who looks for alternatives to the established gear companies is an Airsofter.

This is true, but a good majority are. They generally take one class with a non mil-spec optic and then change their thought process after the class.




C4

Quoted: Quoted: They generally take one class with a non mil-spec optic and then change their thought process after the class. C4 I took my first class with an Aimpoint, all subsequent classes have been with straight irons. I guess I have really gone "mil-spec" huh? I have a pic around here somewhere of me and "Hawkeye" (a mod here on AR15.com) at Steve's course. Him with his gear queer rifle, and me with a naked Bushmaster.

Irons huh, well good on ya! Most folks don't know how to use them. I know Hawkeye very well (buys a lot of gear from me and is a mod on my forum).

I am also glad to hear that your #22M68 is holding up. Every so often grab it and give it a good push/pull. When I go to classes I walk around and look at what everyone is running (always interesting). If I find an ARMS mount I give it a good once over. So far I am batting 500 on finding a bad one.



C4

Quoted: Guys, arguing with Grant is unproductive. He always has to get in the last word and, as an Airforce loadmaster, knows more about the AR platform/optics than anyone else. Resistence is futile. Products he sells are obviously the best, all else is junk. For example, the spot (can't even say that without laughing) is good, Burris is bad. LT is good, ARMS is bad. Don't you guys understand? Heed the "paying dealer" out of respect, it's the right thing to do. Exgrant customer out...

Since I have nothing better to do I will take the time to correct your comments (as they are ALWAYS WRONG).

1. I am not in the USAF (was prior Navy).
2. I have never said that I know more than others about AR's and gear.
3. I stock products I feel are the best. I also pay attention to what our SF groups are running and consult the 10-8 guys on gear from time to time.
4. I do not sell Night Force, US Optics, S&B, Colt, etc, but feel they are all first class.
5. Burris is a good company (personally own and shoot a Burris Black Diamond)
6. ARMS makes some good gear and some bad gear.
7. LT is the best bang for the money and is used by all the top tier SF groups in our Military. These are the folks that can have whatever they want and CHOOSE LaRue Tactical (nuff said).
8. I earn the respect of my customers with quality products, knowledge of said products, customer service and fair prices. I have the most POSITIVE feedback of ANY dealer on this board: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=185028


Any questions???


C4

Quoted: I started this post acknowledging that the Aimpoint is the Mercedes of optics. I wanted to see if the Burris XTS-135 was capable of general police use. I would love to have an Aimpoint Comp ML2, but was wondering if the Burris was a close second for my type of usage, general police use: riding in a case in a car and put into service to shoot a deer/urban mountain lion, covering a K-9 track of a suspect, surrounding a home with an armed suspect and so on. My duty pistol is an HK USP .45f so I am not a cheap ass. I just want to know if the Burris will do the job I need it to at a reasonable price. I was very impressed that Burris had given me a very straightforward response to my questions.  My conversation and the e-mail response from Gordon makes Burris a credible source. When the issue of the SPOT was thrown into this thread by Grant, things went downhill fast. The only way we will know if the Burris XTS-135 and the SPOT plinker dot are the exact same thing or "similar" is to have a scientific dissection of the two side-by-side. Since Grant is making the case that they are the same, I suggest he put his reputation as a dealer on the line. I am calling out to Grant to obtain a spec. sheet of the SPOT from his contacts on high at the exclusive Aimpoint distributor to see exactly what they are importing. Compare that to a Burris and we should have an answer. If Grant is willing to toss a perfectly good SPOT range queen optic out of a car, he should be willing to take that one apart for us. Remember, the salesman is saying they are the exact same thing. Also, if Grant heard from his sources that the Burris was being made in China AND THAT WAS DEAD WRONG, why should we believe that he is right about the SPOT recreational dot being the same thing as the Burris? Same and similar are two very different things. Let's take the two apart side by side and end this. That way Grant can explain why one has a 3 MOA dot and the other has a 4 MOA dot, why one company claims waterproof to a certain depth and no claim is made on the other, and why Burris rates theirs as being duty ready while the other is for fat guys who take their AR's to the range to look tactical. My theory is that the dealer does not want to admit he was wrong about the Burris and the SPOT 10/22 ready dot being exactly the same. Just the fact that the dots are different sizes proves he painted himself into a corner. Burris wanted a certain set of specs on their dot, the SPOT paper puncher dot seems to have another. 10-42

LOL, since your new around here I will let you in on a little secret, this thread isn't "down hill fast." This is you posting a comment about an optic your apparently married to and me providing an alternative for less money. Nothing more.

Boy you must think I really care a lot to go to all this trouble. Tell ya what, why don't just contact MSP directly and get the specs so you can do all the work yourself.

It is 100% possible that the early XTS's were made in China, no one can prove it either way (I know I cannot). I also don't think it matters as they are now made in Korea (case closed).

Just so I am clear, you think an optic that comes out of the EXACT same plant and looks 100% identical is going to have completely different internals??? I would suggest that you become more knowledgeable in the optics world before you make such bold statement! Mike @ CSGUNWORKS just told you that a lot of optics are made by the same people. What do we know anyway, we just do this for a living....



C4

Quoted: Quoted: What do we know anyway, we just do this for a living.... See HerrJaegermeister, heed the "paying dealer". He knows what's right for you. There used to be a time when pissing off potential customers wasn't cool. Grant, do you know that you're the only dealer on the board that constantly does that??? I'm glad a couple of common sense members have posted their results of using the new Burris sight. From what I've heard here and know of the company, it's a candidate to end up on one of my rifles. It definitely has potential. That's being said by an Aimpoint/Trijicon owner, BTW. Thanks guys.

Gee I don't think I ever told anyone what they should or shouldn't do. It is also funny to me that I answer all your comments and you have zero replies. I put them in a easy format so you can address each, but you don't. Wonder why that is??? Could it be that your opinions of me are WRONG and you have no proof to back up what you are saying???

My goal is to never piss off any ARFCOM member. If sharing my knowledge/opinion does that then so be it. Some of you put an emotional value to a piece of gear. You then defended it as if your life depends on it! It IS possible for us to have a discussion on what we like and why without "calling people out" on their decisions. The XTS is a fine optic and will serve anyone well. I don't believe I EVER said that it wasn't. So I fail to understand what the big deal is about all of this. If anyone chose the XTS, you didn't get taken, swindled or screwed. There is another optic out there that IMHO is the exact same thing as the XTS for less money. If you don't think so then DON'T BUY IT! You make your own money so spend it where you think you will get the best bang for the buck.

The main reason why it appears that I get into more debates with board members is because I post more than ANY OTHER DEALER on this board. Does anyone ever wonder why some of the other ARFCOM dealers don't post more in the technical forums??? Things that make you go hmmmm. Dealers should be viewed as a wealth of knowledge and experience. We typically handle and use more gear in a month than most members will see in a lifetime. We also talk directly to the manufactures, go to trade shows and are on the inside on what is going on in the tactical world (Military/LE/Contractor). Some of us also take training classes from some of the best instructors in the business. I am constantly talking to Pat Rogers and the guys in 10-8 consulting about gear, training and ideas. I then turn around share this information with the board. Would it be better if I stopped doing all of this?? Do you think the board would be better off??

Much to your disapointment ipschoser1, I receive e-mails and phone calls from customers that buy from me strictly for what I say on these boards and how I share my knowledge. I have in the last week had 2 manufactures contact me about being their SOLE distributor on this board. Another one (MI) contacted me a couple days ago and offered me one of their 3 coveted distributor slots. You know what their reason was?? Because they liked the way I did business and felt that I was very knowledgeable and would help them sell more products. So apparently your in the minority in your thinking.



C4

Quoted: I'm not saying completely different internals, I am picking apart your language and pointing out the difference between the same and similar. I can order a Ford Ranger from my dealer that is 2-wheel drive with a 4-cylinder engine or I can order an off-road package 4x4 with a 4.0L v-6. Both are made in St. Paul. One is rated for off road and the other is a light duty truck. What I am trying to do is establish the differences between the Burris and the SPOT range toy. I know enough about hunting optics to know that different brand names order products from the same factories at different price points with different features. Some of the nicer Bushnells and Weavers are made by the same factory in Japan. Grant has offered no evidence that the Burris and the SPOT named-after-a-doggy dot are exactly the same thing as he claims. Burris has stated on the record that they started with an existing product and ordered improvements to their specifications. Yup, I'm new here. The more you rant like an arrogant know-it-all, and yet you've probably never arrested a criminal at gunpoint, means more and more potential customers will be turned off by your attitude. At least you are tactical at the range and in your store with all the expensive toys. That sucking sound you hear is potential customers fleeing from your business.

I will just say that manufactureres say a lot of things to get the consumers interest. I have been around the block a few times and know BS when I see it. As I said earlier, the XTS is a fine optic (below and Aimpoint), but still a fine optic.

I still fail to understand what your so mad about. Is that you have attached an emotional opinion to a piece of gear and can't stand for someone to tell you that you could have gotten the same thing for less money? If so then you need to get over and move on as this will happen many times in your life.

If you would like to discuss this further then please contact me via IM or E-mail (as this is a waste of bandwidth).

As far as loosing you as a potential customer, I was never concerned. I speak my mind first and figure that the rest will take care of itself. Don't like my opinion? Don't buy from me! Never fear though, there are MANY that will take you place and give me their business.


C4

The bottom line:

SPOT is good for range not recommended for LE or Military work.  Price $149.00 w/ mount.

Burris is made by the same people who make the SPOT (I know this for a fact) but it is gone through by Burris to make it better. Price range appears to be from $208.00 $228.00 w/ out mount.

Aimpoint is a proven LE & Military sight battery, durability, and reliability is all outstanding.  Prices for an ML2 range from approximately $360 to $376 w/ out the mount.

EoTech is also in the game and it is my favorite and one of the best out of the bunch.  To me it is faster than any of them and does not obstruct your peripheral vision like the others will do.  We sell more EoTechs to SWAT guys and more Aimpoints to Military.  The EoTech is also a proven sight among LE & Military.  Price is $332 w/ a mount.  

By the time you buy a mount for the Burris you are at the same price for the EoTech!

My thought is (you do not have to agree) if I’m just using it for plinking go with the SPOT.  If you are LE and your life or others lives are on the line I HIGHLY recommend getting something proven (Liability and Safety reason).   If you are looking for a lower priced alterative over the Aimpoint I would recommend the EoTech.  

Hi HerrJaegermeister
“I started this post acknowledging that the Aimpoint is the Mercedes of optics. I wanted to see if the Burris XTS-135 was capable of general police use.”

You say you wanted to know if it is capable for general LE use but it has not been proven yet.  It will take a year or so to see.  If you are not abusive to it I do not foresee a problem, but for me I would NOT take the RISK.

AGAIN IT IS UP TO YOU.  I and others can only give recommendation you are the one that decides.  

Thank you for your time.


www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]
NO Credit Card Fees processing here
Ask About Pack deals!

Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
Mike at CS Gunworks is...

Quoted: The bottom line: SPOT is good for range not recommended for LE or Military work.  Price $149.00 w/ mount. Burris is made by the same people who make the SPOT (I know this for a fact) but it is gone through by Burris to make it better. Price range appears to be from $208.00 $228.00 w/ out mount. Aimpoint is a proven LE & Military sight battery, durability, and reliability is all outstanding.  Prices for an ML2 range from approximately $360 to $376 w/ out the mount. EoTech is also in the game and it is my favorite and one of the best out of the bunch.  To me it is faster than any of them and does not obstruct your peripheral vision like the others will do.  We sell more EoTechs to SWAT guys and more Aimpoints to Military.  The EoTech is also a proven sight among LE & Military.  Price is $332 w/ a mount.   By the time you buy a mount for the Burris you are at the same price for the EoTech! My thought is (you do not have to agree) if I’m just using it for plinking go with the SPOT.  If you are LE and your life or others lives are on the line I HIGHLY recommend getting something proven (Liability and Safety reason).   If you are looking for a lower priced alterative over the Aimpoint I would recommend the EoTech.   Hi HerrJaegermeister “I started this post acknowledging that the Aimpoint is the Mercedes of optics. I wanted to see if the Burris XTS-135 was capable of general police use.” You say you wanted to know if it is capable for general LE use but it has not been proven yet.  It will take a year or so to see.  If you are not abusive to it I do not foresee a problem, but for me I would NOT take the RISK. AGAIN IT IS UP TO YOU.  I and others can only give recommendation you are the one that decides.   Thank you for your time. www.csgunworks.com [email protected] NO Credit Card Fees processing here Ask About Pack deals! Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board Mike at CS Gunworks is...

Thanks Mike. If your life depends on the gear you choose then go with one that is battle proven (not the new kid on the block).


C4

Quoted: I can't believe I just read all 4 pages of this post I want a refund on the last 8 minutes of my Sunday.

+1

I have a Speed Dot.
I DO NOT sell the Speed Dot.
I can tell you  that it is built for exactly what you are looking for, HerrJaegermeister.
It is waterproof, shockproof and fogproof.  Mine has held up great over the last few months.

Some of us, members and dealers alike,  are willing to try other things out for ourselves rather than just listen to the same BS thrown around by the same BS artists.

Do you want to be the first guy on the block to prove the Burris fit for duty? Go ahead. Burris will back you up with awesome customer service. They would not put their name on it and risk the HUGE financial liabilty if they did not believe in it. If it were NOT fit for duty it would have the EXACT same dislaimer found on the SPOT.



Feel free to send me an email. I will clue you in on what I have found. I am not going to bother posting FACTS in here only to have them pissed on by people with no clue.

R
TalonArms.com

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The bottom line: SPOT is good for range not recommended for LE or Military work.  Price $149.00 w/ mount. Burris is made by the same people who make the SPOT (I know this for a fact) but it is gone through by Burris to make it better. Price range appears to be from $208.00 $228.00 w/ out mount. Aimpoint is a proven LE & Military sight battery, durability, and reliability is all outstanding.  Prices for an ML2 range from approximately $360 to $376 w/ out the mount. EoTech is also in the game and it is my favorite and one of the best out of the bunch.  To me it is faster than any of them and does not obstruct your peripheral vision like the others will do.  We sell more EoTechs to SWAT guys and more Aimpoints to Military.  The EoTech is also a proven sight among LE & Military.  Price is $332 w/ a mount.   By the time you buy a mount for the Burris you are at the same price for the EoTech! My thought is (you do not have to agree) if I’m just using it for plinking go with the SPOT.  If you are LE and your life or others lives are on the line I HIGHLY recommend getting something proven (Liability and Safety reason).   If you are looking for a lower priced alterative over the Aimpoint I would recommend the EoTech.   Hi HerrJaegermeister “I started this post acknowledging that the Aimpoint is the Mercedes of optics. I wanted to see if the Burris XTS-135 was capable of general police use.” You say you wanted to know if it is capable for general LE use but it has not been proven yet.  It will take a year or so to see.  If you are not abusive to it I do not foresee a problem, but for me I would NOT take the RISK. AGAIN IT IS UP TO YOU.  I and others can only give recommendation you are the one that decides.   Thank you for your time. www.csgunworks.com [email protected] NO Credit Card Fees processing here Ask About Pack deals! Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board Mike at CS Gunworks is... Thanks Mike. If your life depends on the gear you choose then go with one that is battle proven (not the new kid on the block). C4 I'm just curious.  Did everyone say the same thing when the Eotech came out?  How did it become "battle proven" if everyone followed this advice?

They are run through Military trials over a long period of time and then are released to select groups for in field. If all is a go then they select them as part of the ECOS and commands get to choose which one works best for them.


C4

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks Mike. If your life depends on the gear you choose then go with one that is battle proven (not the new kid on the block). Anything electronic can fail. I've had two Aimpoints fail personally, and know of a third... I also have a friend who's EoTech Rev F failed. I doubt the Burris is any more failure prone than the rest. This is why I consider irons to be the primary sighting system and the optic icing on the cake.

No doubt, but EOTech and Aimpoint have FAR more optics in the field then Burris will ever hope to have. This means you are MUCH more likely to hear of issues. Gotta look at the numbers....


C4