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Posted: 7/21/2005 7:18:26 PM EDT
[#1]
I have an M1907 sling on my Garand and my Remington 513T. I can cut cloverleaf holes at 25yds with it. It has the Redfield front and rear aperture sights. I love it! |
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Posted: 7/21/2005 7:20:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Cool! |
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Posted: 7/21/2005 7:21:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Shit, I forgot about that......... 
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Posted: 7/21/2005 7:55:32 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm good for about an inch at 50M, using a rest. Probably 2 or 3 inches at 100M, I dunno. The only time I really do any shooting for grouping is when I zero, and that's at 50.
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Posted: 7/21/2005 8:18:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Shit! I just realized it! Congratulations! That was my second match up there, didn't do too bad for a new guy. I won't make it up there this weekend for the state championship, unfortunately. I'm just resting up and gathering gear for Perry. Say hi to Brad Palmer of the CSRRA for me. He's my coach. Some of the folks here make me laugh. Even I, as a two month highpower newbie have shot to 1,000 yards with irons before, on a stock Colt 6601. I think I'm going to go out on a limb and say that highpower guys must be the finest known distance shooters in the world. |
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Posted: 7/21/2005 9:50:55 PM EDT
[#6]
 Will someone tell me how wide those 1000 yard targets measure across. Wow, they look like tiny little squares on the horizon. |
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Posted: 7/21/2005 11:01:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Offhand I shoot about minute of paper plate with irons. Prone I'm about minute of coke bottle.
Contrast that with minute of animal cracker prone w/bipod and TA11D. |
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Posted: 7/21/2005 11:17:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Looks like the targets would be so small that the front sight would completly block it from view. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 2:56:41 AM EDT
[#9]
 There have been a few HP shooters who have been able to take their skill to another level, like the 1965 1Kyd match winner here on the left.  |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 4:40:05 AM EDT
[#10]
I think they are about 6' in width. When you look through the sights at 1K the target is smaller than the width of the front sight post. I think the coolest thing about shooting 1K is spotting someone and watching the vapor trail of a .308. It's amazing how high it goes, it's really cool. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 4:40:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Carlos Hathcock,isnt that right before he deployed to vietnam?
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Posted: 7/22/2005 4:41:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Shoot me an IM the next time you head up there so we can catch up. Derek |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 4:43:48 AM EDT
[#13]
A) There's a reason why NM front sights are narrower than GI sights. B) Even if you use a GI front post (as I do), you put the top of the post on the bottom edge of the aiming black. Or you can hold on the bottom of the target frame and add a little more elevation, which is easy to calculate as the target dims are known. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 5:17:43 AM EDT
[#14]
at 25m I can place a quarter on the group. at 100m I am minute of man.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 5:34:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Kind of funny you should ask. I've always been an optics kind of guy, but lately I've gone old school. I set the tricked out Aimpoint mounted carbine aside and pulled out the 20" A2. Shot quarter sized groups at 50 yards using a 60 year old Garand web sling and a good-old highpower rifle sitting position. I was suprised I could do as well as I did with irons considering my crappy vision. I actually shot better with the 20" A2 than with the aimpoint/ carbine @ 50 yards. Accuracy at 100 and 200 was about the same. Either one could keep all shots on a 12" steel plate at 200 yards.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 6:04:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Here's a tip on irn sight shooting. Focus on the front sight only. It's impossible to shoot well focusing on the target and your eyes cannot focus on two different distances (target and front sight) simultaneously.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 6:40:54 AM EDT
[#17]
If I can't hold 1.5 minutes at 200 yds, I have a bad day.
Out to 600 I can hold around 2 minutes if my eyes don't go to hell. I am going to try some eyedrops, so that should help. (This is with a sling and coat) Off a rest I can hold Minute of Spoon out to 225 yds. . . . 
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Posted: 7/22/2005 7:42:27 AM EDT
[#18]
i dident group but at 75-100 yards i can hit a 6" ballon 6 out of 7 shots
the guy who said he shoots 4-5" off hand from 100 yards all i can say is wow |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 8:29:56 AM EDT
[#19]
SWO just out of curiousity....how do you shoot offhand standing? Do you shoot very tight groups that way as well, or do you notice a significant difference....sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've just got my first rifle and only shot it once (not very well) and I only shot it offhand while standing. I've been pistol shooting for about 8 years but find shooting the rifle more difficult. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 8:58:21 AM EDT
[#20]
I notice a significant decrease in accuracy while shooting standing, and I think I can speak for most people (except David Tubb, Julia Watson, John Sylvester, and a few others).  Seriously, I'm not a great offhand shooter and a good day is about 50% of the shots in the ten ring and the other half in the nine ring, which makes that about a 3.5 MOA group for 20 shots. This is not me, but it is a good illustration of a solid standing position that uses bone support instead of muscles to keep the rifle steady. Unless you are snap shooting at targets VERY close to you, it is a very bad idea to hold a rifle like you would a shotgun, with your support arm away from your torso.  And a Norwegian hottie (BOTD?)  
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Posted: 7/22/2005 9:09:31 AM EDT
[#21]
I can blow up head sized melons at 150 yards pretty consistantly with offhand shooting. I never shoot with optics or reddots.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 9:31:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Best was 2" at 100 yards in prone w/ magazine as support.
However I've been spoiled by ACOG lately..so I think 4" at 100 yards now is more accurate estimation. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 10:06:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Another solid Offhand position. This guy *may* drop 2 or 3 points offhand, but not many more than that.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 11:30:33 AM EDT
[#24]
We need less rifle owners and more riflemen.
what is "minute of bad guy"? 12 MOA? yeah, be proud of that. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 12:18:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Who is that guy bigbore?
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Posted: 7/22/2005 12:27:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Not to get off topic or anything, but hey, you live in Wisconsin also.. and I noticed that is a 50 cal round. I was wondering where abouts you do your shooting.. I'm looking for a range with over 300m for my .308. :) |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 12:29:13 PM EDT
[#27]
You mean dropping $1K on stuff to hang on my M4gery isn't going to make me a better shooter? About 90% of my gun money goes to reloading components and rimfire ammo. The rest is match and gun club membership fees. |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 1:46:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Some hick, but I pick up points every time I do what he tells me to 
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Posted: 7/22/2005 1:54:41 PM EDT
[#29]
thanks for the tip, I'll have to try keeping my arm in like that next time |
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Posted: 7/22/2005 2:11:19 PM EDT
[#30]
JayJay, remember that the elbow needs some place for support. Thrust your fwd facing hip out a little and that makes a great spot for your elbow to rest on. Notice the back bend of the two shooters, particularly the chiky.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 3:32:32 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 7/22/2005 4:35:02 PM EDT
[#32]
SWO thanks for that, I didn't get to go shoot yet, but was practicing holding a sight picture like that and it seems to hold steadier than the way I was holding it. I previously was holding my left hand all the way on the front of the handguards with my elbow out. Something else I noticed from those pics was that I wasn't getting a good cheek weld, I was keeping the buttstock lower (more into my shoulder) and I had to lower my head to get a sight picture, which i think was throwing me off.
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Posted: 7/22/2005 6:48:31 PM EDT
[#33]
You just identified the majority of your problems. Apply the lessons from the pics and you will make a quick and noticeable improvement. |
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Posted: 8/15/2005 8:31:18 PM EDT
[#34]
300 Meters, I consistently hit the steel pigs with irons. I can't do it with a red dot, though. Good glass beyond that, but I am getting to be an old man......
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Posted: 8/15/2005 8:41:11 PM EDT
[#35]
M.O.D. at 300yards
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Posted: 8/15/2005 8:45:15 PM EDT
[#36]
MOBG is not a very accurate measuring system. For some peopel, this is 8 MOA, and for others, more like 40 MOA.
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Posted: 8/15/2005 9:17:43 PM EDT
[#37]
I get about 2.5"-4" at 100 meters shooting offhand, riding a horse, balancing a fifth of jack on my head, wearing pajamas. However when bench shooting I can do much better.
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Posted: 8/16/2005 2:54:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Not too shabby.
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Posted: 8/16/2005 8:08:20 AM EDT
[#39]
For what? All of those 1200 yard trench wars we've had in the last 50 years?  There's a reason why the military is fielding lots of M4 carbines and Aimpoints, and fewer A2s, and focusing their post-basic training on closer shooting. It only took them since Vietnam to figure out that most small arms engagements are 100 yards or (usually a lot) less. Don't get me wrong - I shot nothing but irons for 8 years before I got an optic, and can shoot slightly better groups with irons than with an Aimpoint. I think the USMC has it right as far as training rigorously with irons first. But highpower competition, and shooting a 5.56mm rifle at 600 yards, is not anything close to realistic use. |
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Posted: 8/16/2005 9:16:33 PM EDT
[#40]
well.... 242/250 at PI a few months ago.... to give you an idea- 190 is the min to qual marksman... 210-219 is Sharpshooter and 220+ is expert... I was company high shooter.... dropped 3 points at the 200 offhand, one at 300 slow, two at 300 rapid and 2 at the 500 slowfire.... i'm a bit better with glass of course though....
-Roth |
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Posted: 8/16/2005 10:09:51 PM EDT
[#41]
I can put 7 out of 7 rounds from my 1911 (acutally a Colt sistema 1927 with the crappy little sights and a sewer pipe barrel but a smoooooth trigger) into a 5 gallon pickle bucket at 130 yards on a good day, and 5-6 out of 7 on an average day. I do take a kneeling stance or brace my hip against the shooting bench when standing, and use a weaver stance. When I am indoors I cannot accomplish the same thing at 15 yards, go figure- must be a mental thing.
Sadly I shoot about the same with an AR-15 carbine as witht he pistol on an average day, but I can do considerably better with an M1 Garand. I will be trying out the M1A this weekend, and hope to be blowing up tennis balls at 100 yards with iron sights with any luck. For a frame of reference the first time I shot (any firearm whatsoever) it was an Army qualification and I shot a 31/40 with 40 mph gusting crosswind. Needless to say the windage was cranked over a bit on everyone's rifle! |
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Posted: 8/17/2005 6:49:50 PM EDT
[#42]
There are so many things wrong with that statement I don't know where to begin. |
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Posted: 8/17/2005 7:19:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Damnit. I wish you would have told me this last week. I just spent the last 5 days at Long Range Firing School shooting a 5.56 rifle at 800 and 1000yds.  |
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Posted: 8/17/2005 7:27:22 PM EDT
[#44]
See, you wasted your money!!! 
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Posted: 8/17/2005 7:37:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I just came back from a carbine class where we had to do a high stress qualification to pass starting at 200 yards.
My MI BUIS did the trick just fine. Had a nice group at the 200, then ran to the 100, another nice group then low crawled through a field of alfalfa to the 50 where I did 4 shots standing with the BUIS. All my shots from there were with my EOTech. It was a fun little qual course.
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Posted: 8/17/2005 7:41:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Wasted my money, got sun burnt. Spent the first day on the range being told what to do by some girl, who is still in College(I decided listen to her on account she won the Wimbledon Cup the day before). Doing stupid things like shooting for groups on a target at 800yds, with no sighters, using service rifle iron sights, and they wont even show you the hits are until the last shot. Who needs to learn about wind and mirage?  seen through 25X Kowa |
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Posted: 8/17/2005 7:47:18 PM EDT
[#47]
There was one?
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Posted: 8/17/2005 8:00:52 PM EDT
[#48]
I am better with iron sights than with a scope
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Posted: 8/18/2005 7:33:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Like what? I must have missed all those shooting jackets, shooting mitts, 2 stage match triggers, 14lb weighted freefloated rifles with 1/8 heavy stainless barrels, 1/4MOA sights, shaved front posts, and handloads in actual military use. Oh, and lets not forget the heavy leather looped slings that are so often used outside KD ranges. Highpower competition is a game. If you showed up to a highpower match these days with an actual combat rig and military ammo, you'd get some pretty funny looks. |
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Posted: 8/18/2005 7:41:57 AM EDT
[#50]
Last Sunday at the local range I achieved about 2MOA accuracy with my A1 style Fulton Armory Legacy Rifle (C7 upper w/USGI 1x12 pencil barrel) and Federal M193. I was using an A2 aperture with a Merchant insert in the short range hole. I was consistently getting 3-round groups of about an inch at 50 yards and two inches at 100 yards. I was pretty pleased.
With my ultralight carbine (Cav. Mk. II lower, Les Baer upper, Bushy Superlight barrel and CF free float tube) and the same ammo my groups were about twice as large. |
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