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Posted: 12/19/2004 2:51:18 AM EDT
Do any of you have any experience with this unit: It is a Leupold Mark 4 Ring Torque Wrench. Basically what I'm trying to find out is: can I put a 1/4" (or other size) drive hex bit on this thing or does it only work on Leupold brand rings? Knowing what I know about Leupold I would guess that they aren't so petty that you could only use it on their rings, but I don't know for sure - they aren't Microsoft after all.  I already ordered one, but I may have time to cancel the order if I get a response soon enough. I'm going to use ARMS QD Rings which is why I'm asking this question.
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Yeah, it's preset and 65 in-lbs sounds about right. I'm too lazy to check back on Leupold's site. BTW, if anyone else is curious, I got a response on Pre-Ban that confirmed that it is a normal ratchet drive; I'm assuming it's 1/4" because I can't imagine that the wrench is very large. Does anyone know if this is good for all 30mm metal tube scopes? There aren't different torque settings for different scopes of the same size and material, right? |
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I received it and it's larger than I thought. I've e-mailed Leupold because they mentioned something about needing a 1/2" drive to attach the rings to bases. I think he meant a separate tool, but I wasn't sure so I asked. I also asked if this can be used for all scopes or just Mark 4s and/or Leupolds. 
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yes the Army standard (not sure about the Marine Corps) is 65in/lbs on the stock, scope base screws, and the screws that hold the rings on the base (picatinnny here, not some other base) and i believe 13 in/lbs for the ring cap screws.....that is on the M24 but those numbers will work anywhere you're using equipment that is up to the task... badger, leupold mk4's, IORs, etc etc.... no cheap tasco rings or anything here... -Roth |
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The 65 in-lb is for the cross bolt holding the ring to the base. I do not believe the screws holding the base to the receiver will tolerate such a high torque. Neither will the screws in the rings. Neither will any of the screws holding the receiver to the stock unless it pillar bedded. Unless all those fasteners are beefed up and then torqued down, it seems this is overkill. Please correct me if I'm wrong. TIA. |
Crap. The reply from Leupold is more vague than ever. Why in the F can't they just answer the question? I asked again as simply as I could. I guess if I can't get an answer I'll just jerry-rig it by using the short end of the allen wrench as leverage to tighten the screws until it hurts my finger and I can't turn it anymore. 
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   I have that set up 65in/lbs for the stock, base and ring cross bolts and 13in/lbs for the cap screws.... Was told these numbers over on www.snipershide.com I could be wrong of course.. -Roth |
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OK - the guy from Leupold got back to me before I crushed my scope tube. He recommended between 15 and 20 in/lbs so, NUCdt04, the 13 you got was a good suggestion. Also, NUCdt04, I have an illuminated reticle: will that hood you have help with muzzle side signature or with a killFlash would that be unecessary overkill? |
not much will help that.... even with a kill flash (which will help a bit) you'll still see it from head on... only way to stop that would be keep it off... if you have guys looking back at you keep it off until you have your target...then switch on LOW (lowest that you can see it) and take the shot...then turn back off... that's the only way to eliminate that..the sunshade acts like a killflash but is longer (and doesn't help the glare as much) hope that helps a little.... -Roth |
Thanks. I'm a civilian so it's just for make believe.  And, yeah, if you've never seen one it's bright as shit.  Hopefully, if I were to ever use it for real it would go somethink this:Bad Guy: [creeping and looking around] Sh- *thuck* *boom*  The "thuck" is the sound of the bullet striking him in the brain stem and the "boom" is the sound of the rifle - for those of you who may not understand my sick sense of humor. 
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Dick is pretty much correct here. This 65 in.lb. wrench is what allowed an optical scope to meet the user's requirements about 20 years ago in the Army's M24 Sniper Rifle System (SWS) program. Basically, they knew the scope of the scope M24 SWS would not survive airborne ops. So their requirement allowed (demanded actually) that the scope be detached from the M24 and packed in its own little foam lined case for parachute ops. Then the sniper had to re-attach the scope "in the field" without a loss of zero. This 65 in.lb torque wrench provided the sniper the consistency necesary for 100's of testing cycles to within .5 MOA. If you ever see a complete Army M24 SWS lay-out, you will note that the wrench and a 1/4" drive, 1/2" socket is part of their kit (i.e., one per rifle). Note that the M24 was using (and continues to use) Leupold's steel base and steel rings that were pre-cursers to the Mil-Std 1913 rail that followed soon after. If you are familiar with the Leupold rings, they use a large diameter cross bolt with a 1/2" nut on one side. The nut tightens against a large retangular clamp which interfaces with the rail. Our (KAC's) scope rings follow this pattern, but are slightly different in some key demensions to meet the M1913 spec. Note that the Leupold rings, although they will attach to a M1913 rail, do not interface correctly to them, nor do our rings on a Leupold rail base. We have been using these wrenchs for more than 10 years in the shop and the guys swear by them...and we have never had a problem with our aluminum receiver rails because (1) there is no chance of over-torque, and (2) our clamp has a large enough surface area at the interface with the underside of the rail to spread the load. We also use a Screwdriver "beam-type" torque driver to lightly torque the ring cap screws evenly. These tools can be viewed on Seekonk's web site, I think. I also will add that if you don't have one of these wrenches. all is not lost. The M24's kit also contains a simple 1/2" box-open end combination wrench for use when the wrench is not avaiable. This is where consistancy" is more important than poundage. The proceedure being to slide the scope as far forward in rail grooves, hand tighten the nuts (always front nut first , then the rear nut), then rotate the nut exactly 90 degress with the simple box-end wrench. If one repeats this as perfectly as possible each cycle, the return to zero results are quite good. For return to zero, they can't be beat. Now if all this all sounds just a bit complecated (read: anal), that's OK. Now you know why Dick's Throw Lever Rings and mounts are so popular, as are now the LaRue's, which emulate the principle that Mr. Swan pioneered. And a Merry Christmas to all. |
Is your action pillar bedded? My stocks are not and they won't support a screw torqued to 65 in-lb. I'm afraid to even try to torque the tiny screws (#4?) which mount the base to the receiver to 65 in-lb. Are yours standard screws or have they been upsized (redrilled and tapped to use a larger screw)? |
I'm sorry I should clarify here.... that number is for an action with (as in the HS Precision stock that is on mine) a full length aluminum bedding block... my base screws are standard size but I did go and get torx drive screws for it.... -Roth |
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