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Posted: 10/7/2004 6:33:56 PM EDT
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Assuming you use one with a good tube (say delta 64lpm) , is a PVS14 used in conjunction with an ACOG NSN or TA31 a viable sighting system for mid range Designated Marksman / Sniper work? What are the problems if any when using a set up like this. What kind of results can one expect in terms of ability to ID target at different ranges under different light condions. Anybody who has used this set up please let me know what you think. Thanks P.S. I know that doctrine states that 90% of the time the PVS14 should be head mounted and used with an IR laser, but I am looking to use a PVS 14 as a weapon sight. I want to use it with an ACOG for the magnification and the BDC reticle. Thanks again |
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"The center area of the crosshair pattern is illuminated in low light or complete darkness. It glows amber at night from the power of a tritium lamp that lasts for at least 10 years before replacement is needed. This amber illuminatino is compatible with night vision devices. It will not "burn" the tubes because the amber glow is beyond the infrared wavelengths at which night vision devices are oversensitive." That quote is from page 3 of the NSN manual here on my desk. I've run the PVS 14 forward and aft of the ACOG. I've made it work but in every case something was left to be desired. You can get from a pea soup experience to somewhat grainy. For some reason I keep messing around with these configurations more out of curiosity than anything else. I've seen it posted that most mil operators put the 14 ahead of the ACOG, and I've seen one picture of a mil M4/M4A1 set up this way. |
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While I have seen a buddy run a PVS-14 behind a C79 ELCAN and work okay neither the TA31 or TA01NSN work well with this method. I have tried the PVS-14 in front and it will work but take a large amount of effort to dial it in. I am a big fan of the headmount and IR laser. |
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I run a TA31 with a PVS 14 and either in front or behind it works some what ok. When you run the 14 in front of the ACOG you get the "look of the tube" at least that is what I call it, as you are literally looking at the back of the intensifier tube. Some people say it apears grainy but to me it looks “electronic.” That is the best way to describe it. When you run the ACOG in front, the donut reticule does glow pretty brightly but it is not overpowering by any means. Either method lets me identify things pretty well. I can read the 4 inch letters on my mail box from my front door (about 73 yards distant according to the laser range finder) so that is to me “good enough.” Now a good PVS 4 will get you a slightly better image but the damn thing is HUGE. I wonder something though, has anyone stuck one of those 3X magnifiers on a PVS 14 and run that behind an AIMPOINT? Hummmm? The things that make you go hummmm. My advice is if you have both, mount it up and go try it. You will get what I will call acceptable results. If you can afford it find a dedicated 4X night vision scope. IPSC_GUY |
I don't have a 14 yet (duffy got mine  ) I was still wondering if that was the way to go. I would think 73 yards is a little close to even bother with the ACOG. At that range wouldn't an Aim Point or an IR laser be better. Step out side and tell me what you can see at 400yard with the ACOG an 14.Speaking of dedicated 4x NV -- what is availible out there? Thanks again for everybody's help |
That is what I am wondering? I don't have a 3X magnifier for the 14. It's on the "to get list" I just haven't gotten around to it. IPSC_GUY |
 This is a non weapon mounted, gen III, tube. The house is about 100-150 yds away and is lit by a streetlight that is out on the street. Its very hard to take a picture of but in practacality, while headmounted, you can easily make accurate shots (beware of recoil eye bruises  ). The reticle is much clearer and you can use the BDC lines. Its a TA31F
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The first thing I thought of on the 3x magnifier was to mount the 14 behind it. I brought it up on the discussion on Grant's boards but naturally don't have the magnifier yet to see what it's like. I doubt you're going to get much at 400 yards with the ACOG PVS combo that will suit you. Roughly 100 to 150 or so was about my success distance. There's several dedicated scopes that are NVD. The main one that comes to mind is the Raptor, it's expensive but very nice. |
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I have a USNV-14 and a TA01 NSN. Like others have said, it is a doable setup and will work. However, I MUCH prefer an IR laser mounted on the bottom of the forend, with the '14 headmounted, and with an Aimpoint on the gun. With the Aimpoint on it allows me to always check the zero of the IR projected dot, and it's nice as a backup in case the laser craps out. (I have a Corsak IR laser, and am not impressed with the sturdiness of its rail mount.) But in my experience, looking through an Eotech is MUCH preferable to an Aimpoint--the larger and brighter viewing area is superior. I wish I had more Eotechs--but I still like my Aimpoint. Better than an open sight. It is truly a neat experience to have no need to shoulder your weapon to aim it. Just put the dot on what you want to hit. Having a good suppressor on the rifle too multiplies the "neat" factor. You can walk around in the dark, without earmuffs, and pop varmints at relatively close ranges that have no inkling you are even there. Ted |
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I have to turn the gain down a little for the reticle but not that much. I had to turn it down farther because of the brightness of the house. The streetlight really lights it up. I really picked a poor choice of targets for that pic but I had very little time and it was a known distance. I have plenty of time during the day for pics but not much at night. Its not a PVS14. Its a NVPS-10 and its for sale. I had just bought it when I stumbled into a better deal. I'll try to take a pic looking throught the TA31 this way one night. 
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If you can handle the weight and bulk, a PVS 4 might be the way to go. You can pick one up for about a grand maybe a scosh less. If your interested I have a gen 2 Dark star which is a 2 gen PVS 4 tube in a rubberized housing with PVS optics mounted to an ELCAN mount. It is 4X and has a nice recticle in it that I would let go for around $400.00 but it is only SLIGHTLY smaller than a PVS 4. IPSC_GUY sends |
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I finaly got a mini14 or MUM2 monocular and have tried to mount my NSN in front of it. It seems like the reticle causes reflections on the lenses of the monocular that are very distracting. I think a scope with an unlit reticle would be more useful. I am begining to think that an Aimpoint or an Eothech may be the better choice for weaopon mounted night vision. |
EOTech is better than the M2 for NV, or you can get a VITAL or PAQ4 (saw them for sale at EE a few days ago)  The issue I see with an IR laser is that at long distances the laser either can't be seen, or is sufficiently off center (from the offset mount) that you don't hit what it's pointing. With an M2 or EOTech you can always see the reticle and hit what you're aiming at (with elevation adjustments). |
| I had a chnace about two months ago to experiment with my TA31 and a mil issue PVS14 for a night fire course. I zeroed the TA31 by itself and later added the PVS14 to the front of it later after dark. There did seem to be a shift of point of aim/point of impact so zero with both mounted. Also the focus would crap out after about 5 shots and I'd have to readjust. It wasn't perfect but I was very happy with the target ID I could achieve out to about 50 m (night fire course aren't very far) and the TA31 reticle worked perfectly with the NVD. |
Hey just a question, how does that setup effect yer eye relief? Being that it's in front of the scope It doesn't I assume. I ask because of the exchange between myself and 2011BLDR that can be found in this thread I've not mounted or worked with a NVD on my gun so I don't really know how it would effect things in regards to the whole eye relief thing. I don't think, mounted in front it would be an issue, but as I said I haven't used a NVD with my set up so I'm not sure. |
| I have mine mounted in a PRI Adj mount so I can adj the height to the scope. I put mine behind the scope right upto the lens. It loses some of the light but it brighter then it looks in the pic. I also put in in front but found it was way to hard to get it focused just right. It was very bright and if I could get it focused in I would like it that way but this works fine for me. I will get some pics of my setup tonight and psot them. |
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