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Posted: 9/4/2003 4:13:36 AM EDT
At the big FDCC shoot on Sunday, Jay from Knights had a carbine set up that I looked at and said WTF is with this? I asked him to see it and it was friggin cool. I set up my Knights gun the same way. I'm going to leave you all in suspense now and I'll post pictures later tonight. It works very well and has many advantages to it. It was ingenious! To be fair, Jay said it wasnt his idea either. He heard about it from someone figting the good fight...
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 4:20:39 AM EDT
Dammit, now I have to go and find the "You Suck" button.:)
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:44:17 AM EDT
Other than the stacked Doctor/Optima idea? I'm all ears.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:01:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2003 2:14:27 PM EDT by Duffy]
I mounted my Reflex II in front of the TA01NSN to toy with the idea, but the blue tint of the Reflex is too distracting for me so I abandoned it, otherwise it works well enough, though the TA01NSN blows up the Reflex's triangle a bit. [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p841012f1d1ea56724acd35e1764fe721/fb2edf5e.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:14:25 PM EDT
[thinking]
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:22:25 PM EDT
... tagged for pix
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:31:36 PM EDT
I stuck my Aimpoint on my RAS in front of my TA31 just for shits and giggles. MAN thats one big ass dot through a 4X. Was wondering if that would work with the NSN.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 7:06:45 PM EDT
Well? where are them pics? [grenade]
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 8:52:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2003 8:54:25 PM EDT by JTinIN]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: I stuck my Aimpoint on my RAS in front of my TA31 just for shits and giggles. MAN thats one big ass dot through a 4X. Was wondering if that would work with the NSN.
View Quote
A four power ACOG would make the 1 MOA Eotech look the same size as an Aimpoint ... nearly perfect ..... However, still no knob to turn on the Eotech [}:D]
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 8:53:35 PM EDT
Dang, I started uploading the pics from the FDCC shoot. They wont be done for another hour. I hope Im awake long enough to post the pics...
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 9:10:23 PM EDT
TEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 9:30:43 PM EDT
Hahaha, ok troops, after about 3 very quick IM's saying forget the pics and just say what the heck it is... I'll tell you. Jay from Knights had an Aimpoint mounted in front of a TAO1nsn. I saw it and was like WTF?! I checked it out and you know what... It was almost just like a TA31. I was very impressed. We talked about it just for a second. I was wondering how large the apperature was through the 4x. And while I cant tell you just how big it was... I can tyell you the math doesnt work out. For example, IIRC, the Aimpoint M2 dot is 4moa. If you 4x that, it wouold have made it 16moa. There is no way in heck that it was that large. It was very usable. It gave the TAO1nsn the BAC and it worked just like any other BAC model ACOG. I have since done up my Knights gun like this. It was easy having all the parts I needed on hand. Jay had a FF RAS on his gun. The TAO1nsn used the standard Trijicon TA51 mount. The Aimpoint was using the Knights Cantilever mount. On his, as I recall, the Aimpoint was pretty much right up against the ACOG. I tried to mount mine like this but I couldnt. I was using a RAS 2 and the hump was getting in the way. First I tried just using a ARMS #22M68 mount without a spacer right on the hump. No good, you need to put the Aimpoint out further. I tired to mount it on a GG&G Cantilever mount backwards so the mount attached to the rails out on the handgaurd but put the Aimpoint right in front of the TAO1nsn. This worked well at first, but I ran into some problems. Mounting the Aimpoint on a backwards GG&G mount wouldnt fit. Somehow or another the battery cap kept getting in the way of the mount. When I tried to rotate the Aimpoint in the ring so it would clear, I had trouble adjusting the dot to a propper zero. Scratch the backward cantilever. In the end, I put the spacer on the #22M68 and tried to back it up as far as I could. This worked ok and is what I went with in the end. There is some space between the ACOG and Aimpoint, but I havent been able to notice it in my brief goofing around. Advantages to this set up... There is no "black-out" of the reitcle. The battery powered Aimpoint can be set to glow as bright or as dim as you need and is not dependant upon ambient light or the lack of ambient light to illuminate the reticle. You get the BAC but retain the precise TAO1 sereis reticle. If you are doing a mix of close and long range shooting, leave the Aimpoint on. If you are just doing some longer range shots, turn the Aimpoint off and use the ACOG only. For those who use NVD's on their AR's, it seems like all you do is remove the ACOG. The Aimpoint stays in the same spot as it would when used with NVD's. Disadvantages of the system. Well, it adds weight. You now have two optics on your rifle. While I sort of think it looks kind of cool, it also creates some clutter. You are now somewhat dependant upon batteries. While its true you will always have your ACOG going, and the Aimpoint has mega battery life... well, you know. You do have to turn the Aimpont on. BAC ACOGs are always on and ready to go. It is true that Aimponts can be turned on very quickly, and in fact, left on if need be. But not having to turn something on is always better than not having to. I tried this same thing with the EoTech. I dont know... if you are a bog fan of the circle/dot reticle, you may like it. I seem to preffer the single dot of the Aimpoint, maybe thats whay I didnt like the EoTech all that much. But it does work. I'll post pictures of the set up when I can.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 11:44:10 PM EDT
WAAAAAAAY too tired to take and post pics of my rifle, but the FDCC shoot pics are up in the Hometown Forum. Here's a pic of Jay's rifle as I described. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pcd721e5c36b86ffe2394842727e5b295/fb2ddfcd.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:18:33 AM EDT
Is that a URX I see??? [shock]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 1:54:54 AM EDT
Interesting...
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 3:56:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 4:40:08 AM EDT by JTinIN]
With the KAC mount for the Aimpoint work on the most foward location on the handguard or does one need the rail handguard? This maybe the last straw in keeping the stock M4 hand guards ... Thanks for the information. John --- added --- On a low buget route, if only for grins, wonder how one of the low power Leaupold hunting scopes would work (have a couple of the shorter 1 to 4 or 1.5 to 5 and a compact 2.5 in the junk box after getting out of large rifes like the 378 Wby and 416 Riggby ...)
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:40:46 AM EDT
How 'bout a smallMOA Doctor/Optima on an elevated RASII hump mount to save some weight? Wish Trij would just throw a little BACdot in the middle of some real crosshairs. Oh well, why bother with all the 31's flying off the shelf. Even as a RAS/Optic/light/4grip guy, I can say that looks too bulky. I'll never slam practical accessories though. If it works for you go for it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:53:09 AM EDT
So Lumps and I were on the right trail? [:)]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:57:13 AM EDT
So the critical mechanism of the BAC is an illuminated point?
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:57:30 AM EDT
I'm sure it has it's advantages but my first thought was it's just a good way to spend more money. Is this way really better than just getting the TA31/11 series? Of course if you already have the NSN.... Interesting pic though.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:04:53 PM EDT
That actually looks cool, I wonder if this can be accomplished with a Leupold M3 LR and an EOTech on my SPR??
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 1:51:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 3:05:46 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Originally Posted By SMGLee: That actually looks cool, I wonder if this can be accomplished with a Leupold M3 LR and an EOTech on my SPR??
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[url]http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/view_photo.php?set_albumName=M4_Carbine&id=c_spr05[/url] hmmmm....
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:05:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By SMGLee: That actually looks cool, I wonder if this can be accomplished with a Leupold M3 LR and an EOTech on my SPR??
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[url]http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/M4_Carbine/c_spr05.jpg[/url] hmmmm....
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WOW that thing is loaded with optics.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:41:06 PM EDT
haha haven't you guys learned you can't post pics from MM's site?
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:50:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:52:55 PM EDT
That looks like ANPVS14/M68 combo [:D]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:56:11 PM EDT
Sweet! I just tried this with my TA01 on an ARMS #10 ACOG mount on the flattop and a CompM on a railgrabber (with a spacer) on my FIRSH. It's very nice. I can't wait to try it at the range!
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:01:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy: haha haven't you guys learned you can't post pics from MM's site?
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that's not my site and unfortunately not my rifle [:|] wish it were. cheers, MM
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:09:16 PM EDT
oops my mistake.
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