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Posted: 6/24/2003 8:10:13 PM EDT
Looking at mounting a doctersight on a swan or firsh.....It seems as if there are three:

Opt. 1 AR-15 Weaver Base
Opt. 2 Weaver Base
Opt. 3 AR-15 see thru

Is anyone familiar with the docter mounts???? Thanks
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:42:47 PM EDT
I have never mounted a Docter on a rail before but I always thought that if I bought a Carbon rifle I'd put a Docter on it. I think you are probably breaking new ground here. It will be interesting to find out which mount works best. If no one responds, keep us posted on what you learn.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 4:17:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 4:27:08 AM EDT
Here is my Docter on their weaver base using the BM riser mount. I also make Custom Docter mounts for Uzi's and some other guns. See my website for more details. [url]www.c3junkie.com[/url] [img]http://www2.c3junkie.com:6721/m16/9mm/colt_mk9k_curved.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:27:55 PM EDT
Okay, my take on Docter mounts are as follows. The weaver base is just that use it to mount the Doctor on "normal rifles or shotguns". The AR 15 weaver base is used to mount the Docter at the same sight plane as the irons. This via e-mail from Docter USA. The AR 15 see thru mounts the Doctor above the the sight plane of the irons. You use the irons thru the "see thru" My question is will the Docter cowitness when mounted on a Tac handle with the standard weaver base??? BTW I love the idea of this little sight; is the sight all I imagine? Inkaybee and amphibian your input please. How bright? How light? Auto adjust not a bust? Its not cheap so before I leap.......
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:21:35 PM EDT
All I can say is I am more than Happy with mine, and its a 1st generation. Current 3rd generations are supposed to be brighter and last longer. I have had mine over 18 month (i think) w/o a battery change and it seems as bright as the day I got it. It is not the mill spec sealed version but I have totaly submerged mine in H2O with no ill effect. I have shot it in the rain without trouble. I once leaned my rifle against the wall and it fell over right on the docter. It chipped the finnish a little but the sight was unharmed. I have had a terrrible experiance ordering from docteropticsusa/BC outdoors. They took my money on a back ordered item, then they raised the price on me, wanted me to pay the difference and would not refund my money. They would not return calls or emails. Every time you call you get a machine and it's long distance. You are much better off if you order elsewhere.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:37:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 8:39:52 PM EDT by GIDDS-45]
I ordered mine from ultout.com. Great service......I think mine is a gen II. Auto-Five - with regards to the second mount you mention---"The AR 15 weaver base is used to mount the Docter at the same sight plane as the irons"---I assume this would be for a flattop, or an A2 upper (or possibly both).... inkaybee.....What mount / application are you using? all input is appreciated...
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 6:31:03 AM EDT
I have similar experience as inkaybee. I have all 3 generations of the sight. I too have had 1 running for over a year and it was still very bright. That one was a 3.5 MOA that I sold since I prefer the larger 7 MOA for smg's. I am very happy with its ability to sense the amount of ambient light. It has always been perfect under all light conditions including NO light. I have Docter literature that states that they are "waterproof". The NON milspec version just needs to be dried off and its good to go. The milspec version just has a rubber gasket at the bottom between the optic and mount and a small lens where the dot is projected from. Here is my favorite Docter application. On my custom Docter mount that I make. [url]http://www.c3junkie.com[/url] [img]http://www2.c3junkie.com:6721/uzi/mini_mk9k_drum.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:20:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GIDDS-45: inkaybee.....What mount / application are you using?
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Mine is atop my Trijicon TA01NSN
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 12:08:27 PM EDT
Yes, the Ar 15 weaver base is used on flat top. It lifts the sight for a proper cheek weld and may allow the operator to cowitness the irons. I've haven't seen one just info via e-mail. I don't know if the see thru mount is for a carry handle, but it may be so. I'll find out and let you know. Thanks for the reviews guys!
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 1:27:16 PM EDT
I saw the see-thru mount at the NRA show in Orlando. It mounts via the carry handle.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:01:56 AM EDT
From Docter optic USA I received the following information. The standard weaver mount 55700-1 places the center of the view window 1 1/8" above the top of the flat top rail. The AR 15 weaver mount 55700-19 places the center of the view window 2" above the flat top rail. The view window 13/16 wide by 5/8 high. I measured the line of sight on the AR irons to be 1 3/8 above the flat top. If these numbers and my math are correct the Docter AR 15 mount is too high to allow cowitness of BUIS. And the standard weaver mount is too high to allow cowitness when mounted on a Tac handle. Not good! Anyone with first hand knowledge of these issues please chime in. Amphibian maybe you could make mounts of the proper height. Or standard mount and Swan....or?
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 2:43:04 PM EDT
Auto-Five, I'm really just an Uzi junkie and the only Optics I run on my M16's are just simple red dots. I don't know what a BUIS is. Give me some pics/links to reference what you want to do and I'll see if I can figure out if I can get it done.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 10:01:28 PM EDT
Arfcom speak BUIS = back up iron sight. Went to your website Amphibian nice work and such nice toys! Recommend everyone take a break and visit. What I want is to mount the Docter on my flat top and see the iron sights in the lower third of the view window. To use the Rock River Arms Tactical carry handle I might need to grind off the bars on the weaver rail drill and tap the shelf thats left. Question does the Docter screw down into the mount or up before the mount is fastened to the rifle. I also have an ARMS 40 I was planing to use with an Eotech. If my numbers above are right the mount would need to place the center of the view window about 1 1/2" above the flat top. Maybe all I need is the standard mount with a spacer and longer screws.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 3:40:13 AM EDT
The Docter screws down to whatever it sits on. Alot of the guys who use them on pistols drill and tap their slides and screw the docter directly to them.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 7:13:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2003 7:14:27 AM EDT by cgoret]
I have mounted a 3.5 MOA DR on my A3 with a [url=http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j6kqqdr88e00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Faspx%2Fgeneral%2FError404.aspx%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%3A80%2Faspx%2FNS%2Fstore%2FProductDetail.aspx?p=1854] mark brown a3 mount [/url] with the standard weaver mount - it sat a little low for co witnessing the sight. I added a [url=http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/A_scope.cfm}] spacer/battery [/url] to get it to the right height. This worked pretty well, plus the extra battery really made the dot bright. If I had it to do over, I would get the 7 MOA - the 3.5 is too small. If I get some time I will attempt to post a picture.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 4:19:29 AM EDT
I also have an ARMS 40 I was planing to use with an Eotech. If my numbers above are right the mount would need to place the center of the view window about 1 1/2" above the flat top. Maybe all I need is the standard mount with a spacer and longer screws.
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I would have to measure the Docter weaver mount but I'm guessing its around 1/2" that it rises it. Have these Bushmaster risers? [img]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/Images/yhm-226.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/yhm-226.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 6:52:32 PM EDT
Some great ideas guys. Love the spacer/battery great to fine tune the height and brighter dot! The BM riser at 1/2" high would put the center of the view window at 1 5/8". The center of the aperture on my ARMS 40 is 1 7/16". With a 5/8" high view window the iron sights should be visible about 1/8" above the lower edge.Imight use the BM rail extension version and put the sight out over the handguards. An ARMS 38 might also work. Its about 3/8" high and should allow cowitnessing. The 7moa dot seems to get the vote here though my instinct would be the 3 1/2 moa. Amphibian's first post shows an AR with BM riser. To me this looks like the way to go. I'll back it up with the ARMS 40.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 8:28:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2003 8:29:37 PM EDT by GIDDS-45]
OK, since we are discussing the Docter, and I am no good at math......I am looking for a rail that either has an integrated flip up rear and/or flip-rail combo that mounts on both the flat-top and the FIRSH handguard (that will lock both into a single platform). My hope is that I can find a rail or a combination of devices that I can cowitness the docter with. I guess my immediate goal is to find a rail that is approximately 12-14" (w/full attachment)..................
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:09:44 PM EDT
I think the super extended ARMS 38 will do it. Its 14" long has the flip up rear sight and adds about 3/8" to 1/2" in height. The Docter sight with the standard weaver mount measures 1 1/8" to center of the center of the view window. The total height above the flat top is 1 1/2" or slightly more. The sight on the ARMS 38 has an aperture that is 1 7/16" above the flat top. It should lock everything together and cowitness. If the Docter needs to be slightly higher use the spacer suggested in a previous post. The above is based on measurements I have made and info from Docter Optic USA. Corrections and real world experiences welcome.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:40:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Auto-Five: I think the super extended ARMS 38 will do it. Its 14" long has the flip up rear sight and adds about 3/8" to 1/2" in height. The Docter sight with the standard weaver mount measures 1 1/8" to center of the center of the view window. The total height above the flat top is 1 1/2" or slightly more. The sight on the ARMS 38 has an aperture that is 1 7/16" above the flat top. It should lock everything together and cowitness. If the Docter needs to be slightly higher use the spacer suggested in a previous post. The above is based on measurements I have made and info from Docter Optic USA. Corrections and real world experiences welcome.
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Auto-Five....do you think that the underside of the 38EX is long enough to attach to both the upper and Firsh.....it looks as if the bottom front end of the sleeve is raised to clear a standard handguard......to clarify even more, I am hoping to take out any gaps or play between the firsh and the upper.... does anyone know of a long rail (that dosent need to be tapped to the upper)???????
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 7:31:12 PM EDT
Sorry Gidds-45 you're right the ARMS is cut away over the handguards. I think the height is okay but will not connect the two together. I looked around a bit but could not find a solution for your situation. Time to defer to the experts!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:46:28 AM EDT
cgoret - I'm thinking of trying the Mark Brown mount with either a Doc Optic or Aimpoint. Do you find that the front and/or rear sights get in the way when using the optic?
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 5:57:18 AM EDT
No, not really a problem. They are visible, of course, the rear more than the front, but in the very bottom of the DR (with that spacer). I have also mounted a red dot sight on that setup, same results. Clay
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