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Posted: 5/14/2003 9:06:38 AM EDT
Does anyone know what bullet weight and FPS (at the muzzle) of Leupold's M3 .223 cam is calibrated for?

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 3:39:53 PM EDT
• 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) 55gr at 3,200 ft/sec Damn, I coulda swore it was 62gr, but [url]http://www.leupold.com/products/Bullet_Drop_Compensator.htm[/url] says nope. Hmmm, I have a lot of Q3131A sitting around... [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 6:56:41 PM EDT
I have been trying to decide between the M1 or M3 Luepold scopes myself anybody try both out and which would you recommend? 223REM Not trying to steal your post just thought you might have experience with the scope since your asking about it
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 7:48:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By medic1: 223REM Not trying to steal your post just thought you might have experience with the scope since your asking about it
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medic1, you're not stealing anything. I'm in the process of deciding on which scope as well. I am planning on using a 69 grain bullet, so the M3 may not be the optimal scope. Wonder if I can have a custom cam made or if one of the other caliber cams has similiar bullet drop to the 69 grain bullet.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 7:55:13 PM EDT
[url]www.kentonindustries.com[/url] Custom cams, or you can get use the one for 30-06 and have it refinished black and notch it yourself for the different distances. Ed
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:52:45 PM EDT
Ed, thank you! I think I will be outfitting some of my other scopes with these cams.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:24:00 PM EDT
Leupold was requested by the Army to calibrate its .223 range dial (IT'S NOT A CAM) for the M193 (55gr) ammo. 1) First check your ballistic tables to see hoe the path of the M193 compares with that of the M855 out to 500yds. using the same length barrel. That's all the .223 dial is calibrated to. You just might find out that they're close enough for Gov't work! 2) Failing that, Kenton can make you a dial with any curve you want. Get your own ballistic program - Exbal is great (Perry-Systems, gperry@perry-systems.com) mine was only $20. a couple of years ago, and very easy to use. Specify your come-ups to Kenton from your program, or better yet shoot your own rifle with the load that you're using at all of the distances and supply your own data. 3) You can buy a blank elevation dial directly from Leupold ($35.) and have your local trophy shop engrave the markings that you obtained above. Do not by any means deface your .30-'06 dial!!! It just so happens that this dial tracks the military M118LR Match/Sniper round (175gr. Sierra MatchKing @2650MV) in yards like its on rails. Keep it with the scope for further use, of if anything, you could probably sell it on Sniper Country. Remember, the M3 has 1MOA elevation adjustments (although you can get 1/2MOA out of it by stopping between the clicks) so if you want 1/4MOA perfection you probably won't be happy with an M3. If MO Kill Zone is what you're after then you'll be home free. BTDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:46:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By McBoingBoing616: Leupold was requested by the Army to calibrate its .223 range dial (IT'S NOT A CAM) for the M193 (55gr) ammo. 1) First check your ballistic tables to see hoe the path of the M193 compares with that of the M855 out to 500yds. using the same length barrel. That's all the .223 dial is calibrated to. You just might find out that they're close enough for Gov't work! 2) Failing that, Kenton can make you a dial with any curve you want. Get your own ballistic program - Exbal is great (Perry-Systems, gperry@perry-systems.com) mine was only $20. a couple of years ago, and very easy to use. Specify your come-ups to Kenton from your program, or better yet shoot your own rifle with the load that you're using at all of the distances and supply your own data. 3) You can buy a blank elevation dial directly from Leupold ($35.) and have your local trophy shop engrave the markings that you obtained above. Do not by any means deface your .30-'06 dial!!! It just so happens that this dial tracks the military M118LR Match/Sniper round (175gr. Sierra MatchKing @2650MV) in yards like its on rails. Keep it with the scope for further use, of if anything, you could probably sell it on Sniper Country. Remember, the M3 has 1MOA elevation adjustments (although you can get 1/2MOA out of it by stopping between the clicks) so if you want 1/4MOA perfection you probably won't be happy with an M3. If MO Kill Zone is what you're after then you'll be home free. BTDT
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1) I'll do with my 30-06 dial what I wish. Thanks. [;)] 2) I don't know a source to directly buy M118, so I guess that is a moot point. However, does the M118 match out to either the Black Hills or Fed GM 175gr cartridges? I think the factory stuff is doing 2600fps, so it may be off. 3) Since I can't find the answer anywhere else: How to adjust the M3LR for a 20MOA base? Right now I can't adjust POI any lower from the dial...does the base adversely effect the BDC functionality?
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 12:29:48 AM EDT
I've used both the Federal GMM2 (175gr. SMK) cartridge and the Black Hills 175SMK. My log book shows the Federal going out at 2654MV over my Oehler 35P. The Black Hills was 14 fps slower. The current 'hot setup' for the .308 handload is with the 175gr. SMK, use 44.2gr. Varget, W-W brass, and WLR primer, 2.800"OAL. It chronos @ 2685MV, same barrel, same day. These readings were taken at 5000ft elev., 78*F, humidity 38%, baro 24.5"-steady. You can play with the load to compensate for your conditions. This load duplicates the M118LR military Sniper load - but not the M118 or M118SB ammo, which used a different 173gr. bullet. The M118LR uses the 175SMK. I can tell you that these loads will track as well as humanly possible on the M3LR using the .30-'06 dial, but the increments will read in yards, not as in meters as the dial is marked. Black magic marker can fix that. The reason that I mentioned not doing anything to deface an M3LR .30-'06 elevation dial is simple, once you understand that Leupold is no longer shipping this dial with the scope. As a matter of fact, they're only including three dials in the current shipment. So go ahead and do anything that you wish with it, it's yours after all, but keep in mind that you may not be able to get another one in the future! And Kenton ain't cheap!! Now for your adjustment problem. I take it that you have your scope mounted on a 20MOA tapered base but can't set zero, POA to POI @ 100yds? Leupold sells you a scope but neglects to instruct you how to set it up. I don't know WTF their problem is with that. They always forget to mention that on initial setup you must remove the elevation dial and adjust the knob underneath it to a 100yd. POA-POI, then reinstall your elevation dial with '1' (for 100yds.) at the zero reference dot located on the scope turret housing. There is a built in stop in the dial that automatically does not allow you to turn it below the '1' mark after installed properly. That is what is giving you trouble now. HTH
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 9:31:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By McBoingBoing616: I've used both the Federal GMM2 (175gr. SMK) cartridge and the Black Hills 175SMK. My log book shows the Federal going out at 2654MV over my Oehler 35P. The Black Hills was 14 fps slower. The current 'hot setup' for the .308 handload is with the 175gr. SMK, use 44.2gr. Varget, W-W brass, and WLR primer, 2.800"OAL. It chronos @ 2685MV, same barrel, same day. These readings were taken at 5000ft elev., 78*F, humidity 38%, baro 24.5"-steady. You can play with the load to compensate for your conditions. This load duplicates the M118LR military Sniper load - but not the M118 or M118SB ammo, which used a different 173gr. bullet. The M118LR uses the 175SMK. I can tell you that these loads will track as well as humanly possible on the M3LR using the .30-'06 dial, but the increments will read in yards, not as in meters as the dial is marked. Black magic marker can fix that. The reason that I mentioned not doing anything to deface an M3LR .30-'06 elevation dial is simple, once you understand that Leupold is no longer shipping this dial with the scope. As a matter of fact, they're only including three dials in the current shipment. So go ahead and do anything that you wish with it, it's yours after all, but keep in mind that you may not be able to get another one in the future! And Kenton ain't cheap!! Now for your adjustment problem. I take it that you have your scope mounted on a 20MOA tapered base but can't set zero, POA to POI @ 100yds? Leupold sells you a scope but neglects to instruct you how to set it up. I don't know WTF their problem is with that. They always forget to mention that on initial setup you must remove the elevation dial and adjust the knob underneath it to a 100yd. POA-POI, then reinstall your elevation dial with '1' (for 100yds.) at the zero reference dot located on the scope turret housing. There is a built in stop in the dial that automatically does not allow you to turn it below the '1' mark after installed properly. That is what is giving you trouble now. HTH
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I was just messin' with you about my disposition of the dial--I read after your post that new ones were not being made -- I didn't know. I use 168gr Fed Gold on my PSS, but also in concert with a Mk4 M1.... The M3 is on a .223 LTR with a canted 20MOA base. With the BDC dial removed will the dial underneath turn freely? Thanks for your help... Ed
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 12:22:04 PM EDT
SHIVAN458, You know how the M3 is kinda tough to turn even with the dial installed, especially when relatively new. The inner knob will feel a bit stiff, but will turn. If you've got strong fingers - no problem. Otherwise a soft rag and a pair of curved jaw pliers will do it, and not tear up the finish if used with care. I learned that the use of the ol' ladies hair dryer, or a heat gun set on low, aimed right at the turret for a short while will help it turn. They've got the inside packed tight with waterproofing grease and add to that tight o-rings. Don't worry too much about it, 'cause if you're an experimenter like me those little hex set-screws will scratch it anyway, as you change dials back and forth. Got to love those LTRs. I've got one in .308! Really handy. Your PSS will really sing with the 175's, trust me. They've fixed the 168s problem with yaw after about 800yds. when going subsonic! It's all in the boattail. Glad to help.
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