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Posted: 5/1/2003 7:33:46 AM EDT
I was looking at the ARMS Backup Iron Sight and saw 2 different models the 40 and the 40A. Can someone tell me what the difference is?
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 7:30:12 PM EDT
One has the standard M16A2 leaf sight ap.The other has a back up notch on top of the small ap. that is for distance shooting beyond what the irons or red dot are zero'd to. If some bad guys are shooting at you from 5-600 meters and your battle sight is only zero'd to 3 hundred, the notch will give you a better chance of getting the rounds closer than just guessing at the longer distance than just by holding over above the target. Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 7:23:37 AM EDT
Cool...which one is which? I was looking at them on a website and couldn't tell the difference.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 8:08:23 AM EDT
#40 has the notch and the #40a is the full peep. I have both and like the #40a better. however after reading 3rdtk's reasoning, I can understand the #40 is a more practical sight.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:48:50 PM EDT
The "horizon line" of the #40 is worthless; I know, having owned one of these. Get the #40A.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 11:55:57 PM EDT
The only time you really need a 40 is when you are going to squeeze and ACOG over the top of it. Otherwise, get the 40A.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:02:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zardoz: The "horizon line" of the #40 is worthless; I know, having owned one of these. Get the #40A.
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Is the reason you know its worthless because you have tried to use it on man size targets out to 500 or 600 yards?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:28:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By Zardoz: The "horizon line" of the #40 is worthless; I know, having owned one of these. Get the #40A.
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Is the reason you know its worthless because you have tried to use it on man size targets out to 500 or 600 yards?
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You must live in the midwest because unless I stand in the middle of the highway I can't see shooting a person at ranges beyond 200 yards. And how many people you shoot at are willing to wear blaze orange and be stapled to a wooden post for you to shoot at them? +60 inches of drop at 600 yards and about 10% of the muzzle energy you're going to do nothing but piss them off enough that they'll fire back with a real cartridge.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:50:11 AM EDT
The Horizon line was designed for military personel, who might have to counter incoming fire from a distance further than the 250-300 meters that their zero'd to. It's a people shooter ap, and you can't imagine how nice it works unless you need it at extended ranges. Jack
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 12:34:07 PM EDT
I have the 40 version on my carbine because it was what was in stock at the time. I dont see how it can be called junk. Besides, I never really used it on my Aimpoint equiped gun. The back up iron sight for me is just that...back up.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:20:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 2:22:42 PM EDT by underdog_m4]
Sounds like the 40 has some nice extra features. I believe though that the 40A will probably work better for me though. Thanks everyone for your help and input! underdog edited because my fingers were typing faster than my brain was spellin'
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:47:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 2:49:17 PM EDT by TREETOP]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:26:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By underdog_m4: Sounds like the 40 has some nice extra features. I believe though that the 40A will probably work better for me though. Thanks everyone for your help and input! underdog
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Not so fast... Keep in mind that the two apertures are on different planes and will have substantially different POI's at any distance. The large aperture is the default 'Pop up', so that is the one that you should zero at say 50 yds. This will give you a good battlesight zero from arms lenght to 250 yds or so. Beyond that, switching to the small aperture will shift the POI to give you 300 - 400 hit on man sized targets if you can shoot that good. If you get out beyond that, the "horizon cut" will help you hit at the 500 yds mentioned, again if you can see tha target and shoot that well. Most people don't like the horizon cut as it make getting a good sight picture throught eh small aperture difficult (unless you have the time to place your finger on top of it). Me, I don't mind it because since it is a [i]back up[/i] sight I will be using the large aperture 99% of the time.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 7:10:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 7:10:53 PM EDT by Zardoz]
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By Zardoz: The "horizon line" of the #40 is worthless; I know, having owned one of these. Get the #40A.
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Is the reason you know its worthless because you have tried to use it on man size targets out to 500 or 600 yards?
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The reason [b]I[/b] find it worthless is because the sight is so close to the eye that it is impossible to obtain ANY kind of sight picture with the horizon line, itself. Ever wonder why [b]ALL[/b] rifles with notch rear sights place them far out on the barrel--it's because if it were too close (as with the ARMS #40), the rear sight notch would be so far out of focus as to be completely unsable. Don't take this as a bash against the #40; it's (IMO) the best BUIS around, but that "horizon line" crap is just that---crap.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 8:02:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 9:56:20 PM EDT by pbrstreetgang]
have the ARMS40, put an AO same plane aperature on it- never been happier. small ap. to zero and for precision- large for up close. using the santose zero, it's within 2" out to 250m. to 350 or so, close enough to work. that's further than i ever expect to use my [i]self-defense carbine with it's back-up iron sights[/i]. fits under my acog too. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p4250866f235f99d376babca33886889b/fc384d1a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/peb3f5dbacc982d311571691859dda0e4/fc384d18.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p8df64272905f2066362ec072ff52046c/fc384d15.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 6:11:40 PM EDT
Who makes/sells the same plane aperture?
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 7:07:53 PM EDT
AO = Ashley Outdoors I believe. Type that in and if it fails, try same plane sight or same plane aperature. If someone made a large hole sight with a small hole compensated for the windage shift and sighted for further out, I would buy it and I bet a lot of other people would too. Large hole = 50-200 yards Small hole 350-400+ yards. I guess I will have to make it myself.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 7:56:26 PM EDT
For me the notch made the small aperture worthless. The material left is so thin that the top of the peep disappears. I replaced mine with the standard A2 aperture.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 9:43:35 AM EDT
I just ordered a #40 with the full A2 small aperture. I tried the regular #40 with the horizon cut and the others a correct. The notch was too close to my eye to utilize properly and the horizon cut screwed up the the small aperture, it was also to hard too use. I guess if you pull you head way back to the end of the stock by the buttpad the notch might be usable. YMMV [:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:18:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander: For me the notch made the small aperture worthless. The material left is so thin that the top of the peep disappears. I replaced mine with the standard A2 aperture.
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Yep, same here.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 6:43:00 PM EDT
PBRStreetgang! Whoa! That is an awesome optic setup. I have never seen an Optima attatched on top of an ACOG. That...is...the...sh--. ISPC open gun maybe? Tom
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 7:04:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: You must live in the midwest because unless I stand in the middle of the highway I can't see shooting a person at ranges beyond 200 yards. And how many people you shoot at are willing to wear blaze orange and be stapled to a wooden post for you to shoot at them? +60 inches of drop at 600 yards and about 10% of the muzzle energy you're going to do nothing but piss them off enough that they'll fire back with a real cartridge.
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[LOL]
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