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Posted: 11/27/2002 4:56:42 PM EDT
I recently bought an ARMS #40 and a GG&G folding front sight for Armalite picatinny rail. In a recent training excercise, we had to use Iron sites only, assume ACOG was hit or broke or what ever, (I know its a farse but it was training)hahaha, anyway Every time I came through ventitation or heavy grass, the damn front site snapped down. CRAP!!!! try to make a shot fast like that. Now I know GGG and PRI make front sites that are spring loaded like the ARMS#40 but lets face it $179.00+ sucks , thats a lot of ammo you could be shooting. Well I searched for a site that would be similar and either lock up or have a spring.
FOUND ONE!!!!!! Bushmaster BUIS front sight locks up and down and is just as rugged and well made as the GG&G at about 1/2 the price, well close at $70.00 or so. I just got back from the Range today. very accurate and very easy to adjust!!!!!!!!
check it brothers you wont regret.
chuck
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 8:59:08 PM EDT
Funny, I've been bad mouthing the fold down sights for five years for just such a reason. How does the BUIS hold up in the weeds?
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 9:54:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eaglecp: ...Now I know GGG and PRI make front sites that are spring loaded like the ARMS#40...
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The PRI front fliiper isn't spring loaded, but it does lock up, similarly to the BM sight. It also has a built-in breakover limit in the hinge lock so that it won't be damaged/destroyed if subjected to excessive force. I'd guess that it doesn't employ a spring-loaded hinge because heat build up around the bbl. would change the spring's temper & alter its force constant (unlike the rear BUIS, which isn't subjected to much heat, if any).
...but lets face it $179.00+ sucks , thats a lot of ammo you could be shooting.
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Yes, it is serious cash. But in this case, you [u]definitely[/u] get what you pay for. It's a quality piece, & it's also the only hooded, folding sight I've found for the AR. I believe [url=www.mstn.biz]MSTN[/url] sells them for about $169.00, the lowest price I've seen going for them. But at least you found something that works for you. In the end, that's all that matters.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:10:51 AM EDT
I've yet to see any reason to have folding sights on these rifles. With the right optics you don't notice real sights, front or rear. I'm not sure which "ACOG" Eaglecp is using (every Trijicon sight made is called ACOG) so I can't comment on his rear sight, but the TA01 can be used fine with the front sight in place (as can the ELCAN). If these devices don't work in simple training exercises they're dangerous. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 7:08:11 AM EDT
Paul, Havent had it in the weeds yet, crawling but was sneaking around through some small sapplings (trees)to try it out, had no problems and after bumping it intentionally a few times there was no change in zero. MB , My mistake I thought the PRI was spring loaded, I had read somewhere it was becuase it was an Airbourne requirement. My mistake.As for price, I still think thats a bit to much for a little folding sight. I think demand sets the pricing on this one, Im not saying its not a quality piece of equipment, it is Im told, but come on $170.00! Chuck I currently use the TAO1 or TA11F sight from a flat top 20", and yes they do work with the front sight attached, or upright or with a standard fixed sight. It is a little more visible with a 20" barrel but not enough to hinder the FOV. However It is HIGHLY important to be able to use your iron sights in a combat situation Because no matter what, you can only count on one thing In a combat situation, Murphy's Law. Clint Smith at Thunder ranch teaches this in his rifle and carbine courses at Thunder Ranch, or at least he did . I had a nice Aimpoint go down on me in a critical situation in Nicaragua recently, and having extensive practice with the irons and experiance from the USARMTU is what got me through. Fold down sights in my opinion simply get them out of the way and stream line the weapon even more. Are they necessary, I guess not , but if they are quality made and do the job then why not? If you rely souly on an optic, whether it be in training or combat you will come up short. BTW, You are assuming they were simple excercises, cp
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 12:14:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2002 12:15:10 PM EDT by CANADIAN_TACTICAL]
I fully agree with training in all the possible wpn options you may face. That said - I do not see the need for the fold down fronts except for on specialized wpns, such as the Mk11 and Mk12's and certain specific CQB wpns. Even w/o sights I can still bring the wpn (C7 or C8) up and engage Fig 14 'huns' head tgts out till at least 50m consistently - I used to be able to do it to 100m about 10 yrs ago.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 12:23:36 PM EDT
Kevin, Are you saying you are getting old?? say it ain't so, kev. Happy turkey day my friend.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 5:55:14 PM EDT
Roger Roger, Kevin and this is true, I agree, but there is a place for every toy out there. BTW This is a specialized weapon, Its an SPR using a TA11F instead of the Leupy, I think personnaly for this weapon and my job as a CAV scout Squad/ Section Leader the leupy is to much scope. happy turkey day all cp
Link Posted: 11/30/2002 2:06:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: Kevin, Are you saying you are getting old?? say it ain't so, kev. Happy turkey day my friend.
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SMG - not old [:I] only 32, just don't train as much these days :(
Link Posted: 12/11/2002 10:00:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eaglecp: ...MB , My mistake I thought the PRI was spring loaded, I had read somewhere it was becuase it was an Airbourne requirement...
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Actually, there was/is an Airborne requirement for a spring loaded [i]rear[/i] sight, which is what the ARMS #40 fulfills. [img]www3.supremeco.com.hk/Trijicon/image/Arms%2040_2.JPG[/img] [b]ARMS #40 BUIS[/b] Note the little lever that holds the sight down (under spring tension). Flip the lever back & it springs up.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 9:42:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eaglecp: Now I know GGG and PRI make front sites that are spring loaded like the ARMS#40 but lets face it $179.00+ sucks , thats a lot of ammo you could be shooting. Well I searched for a site that would be similar and either lock up or have a spring.
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The GG&G front sight is not spring loaded, but all the current units now have a pushbutton locking feature. I love my GG&G front flipup sight, but it took around 9 freaking months for them to install it (they will sell it to you only if you let them install it). Of course, I am talking about the model that attaches directly to the barrel, not the rail attachment version.
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