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Posted: 5/25/2023 8:12:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: I resemble that remark. OP, because the last generation of Okay / Surefeed aluminum mags fit in pouches better, are 100% reliable, fit in EVERY lower (unlike PMAGs) and drop free "easier" when you've subjected your gun to some mud or some debris has found its way into your mag well. FWIW I've been using Okays and LaBelles since the mid 1980s, and PMAGs for about 15 years (I'm guessing). I've had more issues with PMAGs than USGI. In LMT rifles I get a lot of failure to go fully into battery when releasing the bolt with the bolt release on a full PMAG. Zero issues with the same guns, same ammo, USGI aluminum mags. I have the same thing happen occasionally on Colts and KACs. CANNOT stand how PMAGs fit in BCM lowers. PMAGs are a lot like Glocks. The amount of internet support is absurd and I feel like a lot of it is just people repeating what they've heard. I suspect not a lot of people have tried a couple thousand mags in a couple hundred ARs through a couple hundred thousand rounds of ammo. Glocks work, mostly. PMAGs work, mostly. Is there a better mousetrap? I think so, but I still carry a Glock and own PMAGs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: Originally Posted By TheQuadfather: Luddites. I resemble that remark. OP, because the last generation of Okay / Surefeed aluminum mags fit in pouches better, are 100% reliable, fit in EVERY lower (unlike PMAGs) and drop free "easier" when you've subjected your gun to some mud or some debris has found its way into your mag well. FWIW I've been using Okays and LaBelles since the mid 1980s, and PMAGs for about 15 years (I'm guessing). I've had more issues with PMAGs than USGI. In LMT rifles I get a lot of failure to go fully into battery when releasing the bolt with the bolt release on a full PMAG. Zero issues with the same guns, same ammo, USGI aluminum mags. I have the same thing happen occasionally on Colts and KACs. CANNOT stand how PMAGs fit in BCM lowers. PMAGs are a lot like Glocks. The amount of internet support is absurd and I feel like a lot of it is just people repeating what they've heard. I suspect not a lot of people have tried a couple thousand mags in a couple hundred ARs through a couple hundred thousand rounds of ammo. Glocks work, mostly. PMAGs work, mostly. Is there a better mousetrap? I think so, but I still carry a Glock and own PMAGs. I’m all Gen M3 all the time but I have had my share of issues with Pmags over the years too. They have improved the design of the M3 several times and since 2016 they have been the best mags I’ve ever used. Absolutely nothing wrong with a good aluminum mag. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 8:32:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Gen 3s don’t drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can’t find anyway to blame it on my lowers
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2023 8:41:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Milewsky80: Gen 3s don’t drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can’t find anyway to blame it on my lowers That's weird, mine all do. I had one USGI that didn't though. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 8:52:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Milewsky80: Gen 3s don't drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can't find anyway to blame it on my lowers |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 11:04:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Buy a mix of quality mags from vetted manufacturers. Shoot more/wonder less. Really this. If another ban happens, you will want an assortment because each type handles different stressor differently. Pmags feed better than anything else, but they can break. Aluminum can dent. Steel can rust. Have some of each to cover bases. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 11:21:08 PM EDT
[#6]
PMAGs are OK, bigger than they need to be, kinda like the Glock of the AR magazine world. I prefer Okay mags but have a shit ton of both. The windowed PMAGS are my jam.
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Posted: 5/26/2023 6:07:56 AM EDT
[#7]
I have a lot of Pmags. Many more Lancers as they are my preferred mag. But a hell of a lot of USGI aluminum mags I bought at pawn shops when I was at Ft Bragg. Was buying Colts, Adventure Line and Sanchez 20's and 30's for a dollar or 2 each. All the older aluminum mags have new springs and Magpul followers installed in the last 2 years or so. I probably have 75-80 of the aluminum mags.
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Posted: 5/26/2023 6:51:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Magpuls are slower inserting in the mag well on a lot of AR’s
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Posted: 5/26/2023 11:43:16 AM EDT
[#9]
The way I see it, metal mags are less likely to break, but more likely to bend. Polymer are less likely to bend, but more likely to break.
I may see a cracked Pmag feed lip. I won’t know a metal mag feed lip is bent until it’s inducing jams. I’ve had metal mags get bent feed lips. Have not had a Pmag issue yet. In fact, I had one metal mag give me so much trouble I taught it a lesson:  Attached FileBut I understand if someone else evaluated them and prefers the metal. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2023 11:45:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: Magpuls are slower inserting in the mag well on a lot of AR’s  Got a video with timed results to compare against the other brands and types to back this up with? |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 12:00:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Why wear anything but the same exact pants and shirt every day? Why own more than one gun? Why not watch the same movie every time the rest of your life?
PMAG’s are my primary, but it’s a ridiculous concept to only own one kind of magazine. Despite Magpul claiming they were impervious, it’s pretty well proven at this point that time is the PMAG’s biggest threat. Prepare for the days when you can’t buy new ones. |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 2:12:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Why wear anything but the same exact pants and shirt every day? Why own more than one gun? Why not watch the same movie every time the rest of your life? PMAG's are my primary, but it's a ridiculous concept to only own one kind of magazine. Despite Magpul claiming they were impervious, it's pretty well proven at this point that time is the PMAG's biggest threat. Prepare for the days when you can't buy new ones. |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 2:53:53 PM EDT
[#13]
I run
Gen 1 pmags gen 2 pmags gen 3 pmags lancers Okay Brownells DSG Vietnam era 20rders too lots of stuff works |
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Posted: 5/26/2023 2:54:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuddyChryst: The way I see it, metal mags are less likely to break, but more likely to bend. Polymer are less likely to bend, but more likely to break. I may see a cracked Pmag feed lip. I won’t know a metal mag feed lip is bent until it’s inducing jams. I’ve had metal mags get bent feed lips. Have not had a Pmag issue yet. In fact, I had one metal mag give me so much trouble I taught it a lesson: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240289/IMG_5232_jpeg-2829543.JPG But I understand if someone else evaluated them and prefers the metal. 
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Posted: 5/26/2023 9:36:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Exactly how much time until Pmags deteriorate? Hard to tell. Likely depends a lot on use, climate, etc. People buy PMAG’s thinking they’re not a wear item but it doesn’t work that way. I’ve had both generation 1 and 2 break. Keeping a watchful eye on my oldest M3’s as they’re in pretty rough shape. My primary long term ban stash is actually steel bodied USGI pattern mags with rebuild kits. I of course have a good stash of PMAG’s too but it never hurts to plan for the worst. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2023 8:38:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: The Gen3 has a slightly slimer profile than the Gen2's. I don't see how it's possible for a Gen2 to drop free and not a Gen3. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Milewsky80: Gen 3s don't drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can't find anyway to blame it on my lowers I have 2 lowers that have this same issue. Gen 2’s work great. Gen 3’s are slow to drop or must be removed. Tried with several gen 3’s. Same result. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:23:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: badredfish]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colossians323: OKAY Best reply ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of good mags out there op - nothing like the feel of an old 20 rounder! Red |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:32:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Magpul, Lancer and GI with Magpul followers.
Never had issue with any of them Use Magpul gen3 every week for training and carry in work guns. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2023 10:23:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Why not everything that's on sale?
I've got a variety. Lancer, Magpul, Elander and some other aluminum body mags. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2023 10:40:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lc17smp: I have 2 lowers that have this same issue. Gen 2’s work great. Gen 3’s are slow to drop or must be removed. Tried with several gen 3’s. Same result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lc17smp: Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Milewsky80: Gen 3s don't drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can't find anyway to blame it on my lowers I have 2 lowers that have this same issue. Gen 2’s work great. Gen 3’s are slow to drop or must be removed. Tried with several gen 3’s. Same result. What lowers are they? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 12:07:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lc17smp: I have 2 lowers that have this same issue. Gen 2’s work great. Gen 3’s are slow to drop or must be removed. Tried with several gen 3’s. Same result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lc17smp: Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Milewsky80: Gen 3s don't drop free from half of my rifles. Gen 2s do, and so do lancers so can't find anyway to blame it on my lowers I have 2 lowers that have this same issue. Gen 2’s work great. Gen 3’s are slow to drop or must be removed. Tried with several gen 3’s. Same result. GenM3 windowed or not? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 2:46:55 PM EDT
[#22]
In Service Rifle you have to watch your competitor fore his rapids and count his shots.
You get to watch a lot of gear. #1 cause of malfunctione: extended bolt releases. Failure to lock back is common with GI mags and such. Rare with PMags. Never seen it with a Lancer 20. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 1:36:44 PM EDT
[#23]
I finally bought a gen three mag last month. All I have are okay mix of 20 and 30s and 1 lancer 20 round. All these mags work great and drop Freely in all 3 of my ars
The pmag does not drop freely and takes a lil more to push in. All I have heard is that you gotta try them. Score you bash them well I did and just proves what I thought about them. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 1:59:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Got a video with timed results to compare against the other brands and types to back this up with? Sure. Right on it. Real world experience. Metal mags slide in. PMAGs hang up in my 3 Colts, and a PSA PA15. Experienced it recently in a low light drill (again). |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 2:22:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15robert: I finally bought a gen three mag last month. All I have are okay mix of 20 and 30s and 1 lancer 20 round. All these mags work great and drop Freely in all 3 of my ars The pmag does not drop freely and takes a lil more to push in. All I have heard is that you gotta try them. Score you bash them well I did and just proves what I thought about them. lol, they all drop free in my Colt, PSA, Noveske, LMT, Centurion, Stag, Daniel Defense, Brownells (Nodac Spud), and Armalite lowers. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 2:29:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: Sure. Right on it. Real world experience. Metal mags slide in. PMAGs hang up in my 3 Colts, and a PSA PA15. Experienced it recently in a low light drill (again). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Got a video with timed results to compare against the other brands and types to back this up with? Sure. Right on it. Real world experience. Metal mags slide in. PMAGs hang up in my 3 Colts, and a PSA PA15. Experienced it recently in a low light drill (again). Sure, not giving verifiable proof. Right on it indeed. Real world experience here also. I have two Colts and also a PSA. Never an issue. I did however have a Noveske that was at first so tight not even metal were falling free. After a few hundred mag changes now everything falls out free. It is why I am having a hard time believing when I am seeing the polar opposites. And doesn't the M3 Pmags have the contract? And aren't they being used in Colt and FN lowers? Where are the reports of them also not dropping free? I'd like to see it if they are. I have some from the top three (Okay USGI, Magpul, and Lancer), they all three work and I will defend each one of them but I will also admit when a problem or a potential problem has been identified. I am not seeing a drop free issue with the Gen's 1 through 3 dropping free. I've got the FDE gen 1 20's, the black windowed and non window gen 2's, and a bit of everything with the gen 3's. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 2:31:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Aluminum mags are lighter and slightly less bulky
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Posted: 5/28/2023 2:43:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willyj73: Aluminum mags are lighter and slightly less bulky That really adds up to something to the hoarders. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 4:50:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By willyj73: Aluminum mags are lighter and slightly less bulky Negligible semantics. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 7:41:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TGWLDR: Buy a mix of quality mags from vetted manufacturers. Shoot more/wonder less. As usual Tig is correct. I will add, Lancers are notorious for jamming when dusty/dirty. There's a reason you don't see LE/Mil widely adopting Lancer. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 7:49:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Sure, not giving verifiable proof. Right on it indeed. Real world experience here also. I have two Colts and also a PSA. Never an issue. I did however have a Noveske that was at first so tight not even metal were falling free. After a few hundred mag changes now everything falls out free. It is why I am having a hard time believing when I am seeing the polar opposites. And doesn't the M3 Pmags have the contract? And aren't they being used in Colt and FN lowers? Where are the reports of them also not dropping free? I'd like to see it if they are. I have some from the top three (Okay USGI, Magpul, and Lancer), they all three work and I will defend each one of them but I will also admit when a problem or a potential problem has been identified. I am not seeing a drop free issue with the Gen's 1 through 3 dropping free. I've got the FDE gen 1 20's, the black windowed and non window gen 2's, and a bit of everything with the gen 3's. Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 7:53:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. lol, okay man whatever you say despite the well documented users posting contrary to this narrative. They still drop free on my various lowers so I have a hard time believing this especially when there's a good amount of Magpul Pmag hate in this forum, YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 7:55:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Sure, not giving verifiable proof. Right on it indeed. Real world experience here also. I have two Colts and also a PSA. Never an issue. I did however have a Noveske that was at first so tight not even metal were falling free. After a few hundred mag changes now everything falls out free. It is why I am having a hard time believing when I am seeing the polar opposites. And doesn't the M3 Pmags have the contract? And aren't they being used in Colt and FN lowers? Where are the reports of them also not dropping free? I'd like to see it if they are. I have some from the top three (Okay USGI, Magpul, and Lancer), they all three work and I will defend each one of them but I will also admit when a problem or a potential problem has been identified. I am not seeing a drop free issue with the Gen's 1 through 3 dropping free. I've got the FDE gen 1 20's, the black windowed and non window gen 2's, and a bit of everything with the gen 3's. Did you read the thread with others having the same issue on drop free? If they don’t drop free the same resistance is there when the mags go in Do,you want a highspeed camera test or can u trust the combined comments of others here Rookie |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 8:18:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BWood: Did you read the thread with others having the same issue on drop free? If they don’t drop free the same resistance is there when the mags go in Do,you want a highspeed camera test or can u trust the combined comments of others here Rookie Rookie? Are you appealing to your veteran status fallacy to dominate this discussion I take it? First, thank you for your service but second, appeals to that won't work. Why am I not having drop free problems as well as the others saying contrary? Oh wait, it's the Magpul Pmag hate crew narrative. Got it. Amateur. I asked for proof, not words without the verifiable proof to back it up. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 9:10:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 9:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: People don't want to hear it but that's because their lowers are out of spec. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. While I like PMag, and prefer it to GI. Dismissing Everybody's lower as out of spec, doesn't really address the issue. If the common and frequent specification of lowers that work just fine with everyone else' mags - but hang up with one brand; then as far as the market is concerned, the issue disrupting customer satisfaction in the market, would be the tolerance of that one manufacturered product (PMags). But aside from that, I personally think Pmag's swell with age, usage, and/or conditions. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 9:29:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: While I like PMag, and prefer it to GI. Dismissing Everybody's lower as out of spec, doesn't really address the issue. If the common and frequent specification of lowers that work just fine with everyone else' mags - but hang up with one brand; then as far as the market is concerned, the issue disrupting customer satisfaction in the market, would be the tolerance of that one manufacturered product (PMags). But aside from that, I personally think Pmag's swell with age, usage, and/or conditions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. While I like PMag, and prefer it to GI. Dismissing Everybody's lower as out of spec, doesn't really address the issue. If the common and frequent specification of lowers that work just fine with everyone else' mags - but hang up with one brand; then as far as the market is concerned, the issue disrupting customer satisfaction in the market, would be the tolerance of that one manufacturered product (PMags). But aside from that, I personally think Pmag's swell with age, usage, and/or conditions. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 9:32:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ecgRN: No. Lol. USGI guy. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2023 10:40:03 PM EDT
[#39]
The only Pmags I use are .300 BO specific, I use aluminum GI style for all of my 5.56 guns. It makes for easier identification, helps eliminate loading errors, and although I've never had an issue with Pmags, I don't trust them to sit loaded for years and still slap into a gun and run. Also prefer the consistency of smooth metal mags in my gear, Pmags and other polys tend to snag.
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Posted: 5/28/2023 11:05:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flying_finn: Canadian Thermolds EDIT... Canadian Thermomelts. And FWIW, I run mostly OKAY's , and Lots of Lancers and Magpuls. I am one of those folks that doesn't put all his eggs in one basket. I have seen issues with the M3's overinsertion tab... but a file and a few swipes will fix that. And rounds popping out of mags... depends on how much "free travel" a mags follower has. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 1:00:53 AM EDT
[#41]
If someone puts enough rounds downrange, over time one learns magazines really are disposable. None last forever. Pmags/lancers/usgi, does not matter. Some may visibly crack, which allows quicker diag of which mag needs disposing of. Is one better than the other? Variety is the spice of life. If one sticks to true usgi metal or pmags or lancers, there is not a lot of difference in reliability. — But there are trash AR mags out there, read/study and one can avoid some that are known to give problems.
So why run anything but pmags? Because pmags are not the only reliable ar magazine. Competition breeds champions, no competition leads to mediocrity. One can use different magazines for different rounds/loads, which make things easier overall. With Okay out of the game, it does limit some new availability options for good usgi metal, but for now we do have options. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 9:38:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: People don't want to hear it but that's because their lowers are out of spec. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: Originally Posted By Blacktoothgrin: Pmags are notorious for being tight in some lowers. Well documented here. Gen3 was supposed to address this but issues do pop up. It’s both. A couple of years ago I looked up the prints for magazines and lowers and measured about 100 Pmags and 100 Okay/Colt mags, and maybe 12 lowers to see why some of the Pmags didn’t drop free from some of the lowers. We didn’t have any Gen M2 mags so they were all Gen M3 30 and 40 rounders. The 30 round windowed mags and 40s were all on the smaller end of the spec and very consistent. The non-windowed 30s were all in-spec, but had some at the max size. Of all the lowers I had a SOLGW that was a little small but in spec in the lengthwise dimension of the magwell that didn’t drop some M3s and there was one Geissele lower that didn’t drop some but I don’t remember why. All the other lowers were Colts and they were all at the bigger end of magwell spec and dropped every mag. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 9:47:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m6z: Why not everything that's on sale? I've got a variety. Lancer, Magpul, Elander and some other aluminum body mags. In the end this is the correct answer. Multiple brand magazines allow segregation of loads and ammo. Also, long term aging is indeed a concern, and as polymers age or experience cycling stresses, they can change properties. Having multiple brands of different polymers and including some metal body magazines, is a good way to assure 20, 30, 50, 70(?) years from now, you and yours can be assured at least some of the banned and grandfathered magazines remain functional. This is one of the reasons I lean towards Lancer, as I personally think the steel lips design over 30+ years of hard usage and aging conditions, will hold up better than just plastic. And while I don't care for and never use GI metal mags, I keep a few in the back, for the same reason. That said, Lancers are painful to buy for AR10's - I'll say that!. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 9:53:14 AM EDT
[#44]
How nice that we aren't limited to what we found laying in the dirt...for now.
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Posted: 5/29/2023 3:19:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: If you have 10 ARs, take a Pmag and it works fine in 9 of them, but not the 10th, people still want to blame the Pmag when it's clearly the lower thats out of spec. But like i said, people don't want to hear that. The problem is when this happens, every other brand of mag still works in that 10th lower. It’s tolerance stacking because as much as we like to believe everything is perfect, it’s not. I sold my last lower that was tight with PMAG’s.I also got rid of all my GI mag pouches that didn’t work with PMAG’s. It’s a pain in the ass but it’s up to the user to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. I think judging anyone either way is a bit cringey. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 5:19:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Apocalypto-: If you have 10 ARs, take a Pmag and it works fine in 9 of them, but not the 10th, people still want to blame the Pmag when it's clearly the lower thats out of spec. But like i said, people don't want to hear that. That's been my experience as well, it's definitely the lower that's out of spec. People would rather blame something than to admit that it's the lower. I had a Noveske that was the same way, I thought it was the mags. Nope, it was the Noveske. Over time things smoothed over so it's all good. I learned to not get emotional and to get logical because sometimes it really is the gun and not the magazine. Anyway, I use the big three of AR magazines. Couldn't be happier with the small frame mags. Now the large frame, totally different ballgame. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 5:40:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Pmag dimensions vary slightly.
If your magwell is at the bottom end of spec issues will usually show. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 1:43:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bowhntr6pt]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Rookie? Are you appealing to your veteran status fallacy to dominate this discussion I take it? First, thank you for your service but second, appeals to that won't work. Why am I not having drop free problems as well as the others saying contrary? Oh wait, it's the Magpul Pmag hate crew narrative. Got it. Amateur. I asked for proof, not words without the verifiable proof to back it up. I don't "hate" PMags per se. But... I've been giving classes for about ten years and see way more PMag issues than aluminum as far as sticking and misfeeds. Fifteen years on SWAT and lots of training/shooting, same thing, some PMags stick in our Bushmasters and Colts... not all, but some. There are quite a few people on this board who have been to my classes and witnessed the same thing. In addition to that, I've had several of the top guys in the training industry come to my range to give their classes and they too were not fans of PMags. Two openly hated PMags. No, I won't name them as I won't speak for them. I don't hate them, but unless I can get them for $5/$6, I won't buy them any longer due to the issues I've seen first hand on the range as well as the two I had (like new) that cracked. On patrol, I carry aluminum first but do have two bags with loaded PMags because the agency bought them thus they were free and serve only as a last resort reload/resupply which I honestly doubt I'll ever need. So... PMag or nothing... I'll take a PMag lol... ETA- I guess I'm saying PMags have a greater tendency to cause issues vs. aluminum. Just my opinion. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2023 6:34:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: I don't "hate" PMags per se. But... I've been giving classes for about ten years and see way more PMag issues than aluminum as far as sticking and misfeeds. Fifteen years on SWAT and lots of training/shooting, same thing, some PMags stick in our Bushmasters and Colts... not all, but some. There are quite a few people on this board who have been to my classes and witnessed the same thing. In addition to that, I've had several of the top guys in the training industry come to my range to give their classes and they too were not fans of PMags. Two openly hated PMags. No, I won't name them as I won't speak for them. I don't hate them, but unless I can get them for $5/$6, I won't buy them any longer due to the issues I've seen first hand on the range as well as the two I had (like new) that cracked. On patrol, I carry aluminum first but do have two bags with loaded PMags because the agency bought them thus they were free and serve only as a last resort reload/resupply which I honestly doubt I'll ever need. So... PMag or nothing... I'll take a PMag lol... ETA- I guess I'm saying PMags have a greater tendency to cause issues vs. aluminum. Just my opinion. Well I value your opinion on this board so I'm going to have some salt in my mouth to think this over a bit here Ever since watching the Chuck Pressburg video on magazines and the importance of push/pull and that every magazine needs to be vetted regardless of manufacturer, and then seeing exactly what he was talking about when I saw a Pat Rogers awardee of the fabled moose cock patch have his Okay with Magpul baseplate bumper fall straight out during a drill, I now vet each magazine regardless.My range mags for classes are all Pmag M3's and these have been run hard, mostly at Gunsite where the only complaints and caution to avoid for the M16 mags has been DD, Amend, Hexmags, ETS, HK's, Promags, ASC, and C Products. Were these M2's and 1st gen's giving issues? Are the USGI Pmags giving the same problems or are they a different variant specific all together? |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 7:20:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: Well I value your opinion on this board so I'm going to have some salt in my mouth to think this over a bit here Ever since watching the Chuck Pressburg video on magazines and the importance of push/pull and that every magazine needs to be vetted regardless of manufacturer, and then seeing exactly what he was talking about when I saw a Pat Rogers awardee of the fabled moose cock patch have his Okay with Magpul baseplate bumper fall straight out during a drill, I now vet each magazine regardless.My range mags for classes are all Pmag M3's and these have been run hard, mostly at Gunsite where the only complaints and caution to avoid for the M16 mags has been DD, Amend, Hexmags, ETS, HK's, Promags, ASC, and C Products. Were these M2's and 1st gen's giving issues? Are the USGI Pmags giving the same problems or are they a different variant specific all together? Honestly I don't know what versions, good question... I assume a mix as it's been constant going back ten years to recent times... window, non-window, colored, black, etc. I also believe PMags will bottom out more often with 30 rounds preventing even the most cock-strong dude on the block from seating a full mag with the bolt forward, I've embarrassed myself a couple times over the years watching someone try to seat such a mag only to grab their rifle to "show them how to do it" only to end up looking like a jackass... I've even started mentioning this in my classes and on occasion students identify a problematic magazine ahead of time. The only aluminum ones I can specifically recall that were a problem were some very shiny unmarked black ones, they even felt cheap, a guy and some friends were using them and they had a lot of problems throughout the day. I had three at one time that were the same finish/feel and they too were problematic, it's just been so long I can't remember where I got them. I know, or think, I still have them but I'm at work. I'll try to see if I can find them and post a pic. I just know/think from my own range time, training, and experience run of the mill GI-type (Colt, FN, OKay, etc.) just seem to work and drop free more successfully and consistently overall. THAT DOESN'T NECESSAIRILY MAKE PMAGS A BAD THING. |
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