User Panel
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Given enough time, I think plastic will degrade. If there ever are heavy restrictions on magazines, I'd rather have aluminum for longevity. View Quote |
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If photobucket was still viable I'd post a pic of my broken M93 stock, shattered MIAD grip, and cracked PMAG. Needless to say, I have very little faith in the long term stability of the polymer used by Magpul. View Quote Well the majority of folks in the poll favor USGI ( or aluminum) mags . How do you post pics on this site? |
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How do you post pics on this site? View Quote You copy the link and to post a photo you need to insert this UBB code [img] then insert the link here, then you place at the end of the link the SAME code I listed in the brackets at the front but you have to add the / just in front of the img but still inside the brackets Again you must add the slash / mark in front of img at the end of the link |
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I still have a bunch of USGI mags with the black followers (OH SNAP), and they work as well as any other mag I've used. I used GI mags with Magpul tan followers in Iraq and they were flawless through a few thousand rounds.
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While I buy/stock all types of mags... Lately Okays have been my favorite to sneak in every month.
I like my pmags but I swear off the top of my head, I've had more issues with them "gen 2s" than any of my gi mags. Rare but I can think of a few ftfs and strange double feeds with them. |
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20 rd USGI for Prone, 30 no pref black green tan usgi followers, pmag or lancer. all function just fine for me.
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I still run and prefer USGI (Okay industries) mags with the standard green followers. When I started out in the military I was issued 30 round magazines with black followers, then the green followers. I had quite a few issues with the black followers but nothing really with the green followers. YMMV.
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Either or is fine. I like to get some of each. Pmags. D&H. OKAY. Lancers are next
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USGI for my A1 clone to keep things pure, pmags for all else and nothing but pmags because pmags are ten times better than USGI.
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Old school Infantry here. GI mags served me well. Now as a civilian, PMAGs and GI mags serve me well. Get both. Buy cheap. Just buy.
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I've been on active duty for 17 years and have seen a lot of magazines over that time. I also just like collecting different types of magazines to add to the stash and to test and compare to each other. I find the different designs and characteristics interesting (I'm a mechanical engineer by education). This discussion seems to come up about once a month here, so I don't think it will ever be settled, but here's my opinion: always be the first magazine I grab and the ones I'll take to war, if necessary. View Quote Also- Brave Rifles! |
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i have mostly pmags but just fent kinda hard on D&H mags from PSA.
the D&H mags shoot out of my rifles with force whereas the pmags kinda just poop out a little bit. Im conflicted on what to do, gen 3 pmags are getting under $10 online now but D&H mags can be hand for $7 or even less sometimes. |
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No expert on this subject or any others but have been shooting M16's/AR15's and M4 types continuously for three decades.
Occasionally you'll get a lemon with any mass produced item. Just weed them out as they appear in training. USGI magazines work, I have black, green and tan follower gi mags. The new followers are definitely better but also have some really old ones that work perfect also. Even have a couple of m16a1 marked 20 rounders with aluminum followers that still run great. My personal current favorites are the D&H mags with Magpul followers. They work smooth, like the follower is riding on glass. Also have and use Pmags, they work well also but are not my favorite as they are a tad bit heavier( weight matters as you get older) and bulkier. Time will tell how they hold up long term, but something tells me they won't last 30 years or more. I really don't think you can go wrong with current issue gi mags with tan followers, D&H with Magpul followers or Pmags. Take your pick and stack em deep. Better yet, get some of each and hedge you bets. It's ridiculous to say that any of them are "crap" they're just different. JMHO/YMMV |
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For everyday range use either is fine. For long term survivability I wouldn't count on PMAGs. I've seen too many spines and feed lips crack, mag catch pockets get wallowed out, and the inside front surface get chewed up from bullet tips impacting under recoil. View Quote |
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Given enough time, I think plastic will degrade. If there ever are heavy restrictions on magazines, I'd rather have aluminum for longevity. View Quote From Battlefield Vegas's testing: "USGI mags have outlasted all of the other brands. We use UGSI (Brownell’s with tan follower) and on a mag for mag basis, they have outlasted Pmags and a few of the other mags that we get from mfg’s with new weapons. We don’t have to worry about various generations with different weapons like the MR556, SCAR, F2000, Tavor or a couple of others that use AR15/M4 magazines." http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/ |
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Well I'm pretty much convinced that Pmags are better in many respects over USGI or D@H etc..... but what about the second part of my original question? Which are better for stocking up (for long term)? Will the plastic bodies become brittle, before the aluminum mags degrade on account of age? View Quote |
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What are you gonna do when a pmag double feeds?? They wear out too.
I've used both quite a bit and a Pmag is no doubt a better rough use mag in the short term, but I still don't think the bodies are going to be good in the long term like aluminum will. |
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Flat out bullshit. GIs with magpull followers are very reliable, as are green and tan followers. You do need to take care of the feed lips. Magpul M3s are likely the best of the choices but don't throw around a fucking lie like that. Nothing but fanboi-ism. PursuitSS, would it be fair for me to play that game with a poster who's not been here as long as I have been? |
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You should buy Pmags and leave the USGI mags for me. I prefer Okay magazines with magpul followers, NHMTG are also acceptable as they're the same thing, but seeing as Okay dissolved there sister company it's a non-issue unless you just find NOS. That said, M3 Magpul Pmags are acceptable. I'll buy which ever is cheaper at the time, but I value the USGI over the Pmags.
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I like both.
Aluminum fit in mag pouch bandolierswith and ammo cans the best. |
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Poll (and OP) ignores what is possibly the best-ever mag for the AR: The USGI 20-rd aluminum mag with metal follower.
If reconditioned with a new mag body coating, and a new spring, one could say that failure is not an option. |
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I have more of both than I know what to do with... need to order some more
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All three are a quality product. I buy the PMags only because in my anecdotal experiance, when the PMags fail, they fail in a manner that is obvious, cracks or breaks. GI mags feed lips may bend and the failure is not always obvious.
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Probably the newest person that will chime in on this subject which I did read every comment posted. I say thank you for all angles and positions expressed.
I'd like to learn - Why or when are these " colored followers " changed? How are they changed? I assume you can buy this part from Magpul separate from a complete mag? |
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Probably the newest person that will chime in on this subject which I did read every comment posted. I say thank you for all angles and positions expressed. I'd like to learn - Why or when are these " colored followers " changed? How are they changed? I assume you can buy this part from Magpul separate from a complete mag? View Quote The various colored followers are a story unto themselves. Let's confine the discussion to the aluminum 30-rd USGI mag. First, there was the USGI black follower, eventually replaced by the (also USGI) green follower. The idea was to prevent the ctgs from becoming misaligned (tilted) in the mag because of the follower allowing the ctgs to "tilt" within the mag. Most of the later followers are called "anti-tilt" followers. All of the new "colored" followers are an attempt to prevent this problem. The USGI green follower seems to be a modern baseline/minimum; the black followers by all accounts should be replaced with the green followers at a minimum. The latest generation of MagPul followers (colors vary, and IIRC, there may be different "generations") are highly-regarded, and many users consider them to be superior to the green followers. There are other followers, made by different mfrs, and possibly of different colors about which I am ignorant. Some may be good, some perhaps not. The point is that GI magazines are considered "consumable" items by the military, and seldom repaired or maintained. They are sold-off by the Mil for a reason. Any and all Milsurp mags MUST be dis-assembled, inspected, parts (mostly worn springs) replaced, cleaned, and lubed. Replacing the black follower is a must, but what you choose as a replacement is up to you. Mag springs, if of quality construction, are not harmed by being compressed (loaded) for long periods of time. Mag springs are worn out by many cycles of compression and extension, by being worn by rubbing against the body of the magazine, and by rusting. Any mag spring that has the slightest rust-pitting should be relegated to range use, and the spring will need to be replaced eventually. Any mag spring that is too short, compared to a new one should likewise be replaced. Aside from damaged feed lips, which damage is often visible (and often correctible) worn spring are a prime source of magazine problems. Your half-dead mag spring with a new, high-tech follower will still likely cause you problems until you fix the underlying cause. It is an excellent idea to uniquely identify all your magazines, so that you can segregate and fix one that is giving problems. Without such ID, they all look alike, and the troublesome mag will be indistinguishable from the good ones. I hope this is useful. |
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One MINOR correction, before the Black followers were the Colt shiny Dark Green followers. They had a Cage Code of 62667.
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I buy Gen 2 and 3 pmags but I upgraded all my metal mags, steel and aluminum, with new springs and magpul followers. I’ve gotten the same performance out of both.
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Magazines are an item which needs occasional maintenance. For example, the inside of the mag gets dirty, and must be cleaned lest the dirt cause unseen internal corrosion (on steel mags) or cause binding of the spring. Another reason to clean mags internally it to compare the old spring with a new one. Generally speaking, if the old spring is two or three coils shorter than the new spring, it's time to replace the old spring. Yet another often-neglected regular maintenance item is that metal mag springs MUST be coated with a THIN film of oil to prevent rust. The various colored followers are a story unto themselves. Let's confine the discussion to the aluminum 30-rd USGI mag. First, there was the USGI black follower, eventually replaced by the (also USGI) green follower. The idea was to prevent the ctgs from becoming misaligned (tilted) in the mag because of the follower allowing the ctgs to "tilt" within the mag. Most of the later followers are called "anti-tilt" followers. All of the new "colored" followers are an attempt to prevent this problem. The USGI green follower seems to be a modern baseline/minimum; the black followers by all accounts should be replaced with the green followers at a minimum. The latest generation of MagPul followers (colors vary, and IIRC, there may be different "generations") are highly-regarded, and many users consider them to be superior to the green followers. There are other followers, made by different mfrs, and possibly of different colors about which I am ignorant. Some may be good, some perhaps not. The point is that GI magazines are considered "consumable" items by the military, and seldom repaired or maintained. They are sold-off by the Mil for a reason. Any and all Milsurp mags MUST be dis-assembled, inspected, parts (mostly worn springs) replaced, cleaned, and lubed. Replacing the black follower is a must, but what you choose as a replacement is up to you. Mag springs, if of quality construction, are not harmed by being compressed (loaded) for long periods of time. Mag springs are worn out by many cycles of compression and extension, by being worn by rubbing against the body of the magazine, and by rusting. Any mag spring that has the slightest rust-pitting should be relegated to range use, and the spring will need to be replaced eventually. Any mag spring that is too short, compared to a new one should likewise be replaced. Aside from damaged feed lips, which damage is often visible (and often correctible) worn spring are a prime source of magazine problems. Your half-dead mag spring with a new, high-tech follower will still likely cause you problems until you fix the underlying cause. It is an excellent idea to uniquely identify all your magazines, so that you can segregate and fix one that is giving problems. Without such ID, they all look alike, and the troublesome mag will be indistinguishable from the good ones. I hope this is useful. View Quote |
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I think PMags are better in every way, except for cost. But even then, Gen 2 PMags are selling online for really cheap, like $7.50 per or so. Hell, Palmetto is practically trying to give them away by tossing ten pmags into almost every daily deal sale.
If the price you see USGI for is only a couple dollars less than what you can get pmags for, why bother with USGI? I would only consider buying USGI if I found them for less than $5 including all taxes and fees. And even then, that would only be to store them in a SHTF stockpile alongside cases of cheap ammo. |
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Poll (and OP) ignores what is possibly the best-ever mag for the AR: The USGI 20-rd aluminum mag with metal follower. If reconditioned with a new mag body coating, and a new spring, one could say that failure is not an option. View Quote Can more of those USGI 20-rd aluminum be bought today, and if so, where? Link? Where are good sources for replacement springs for old 70's & 80's 20-rd magazines? Thx! |
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@raf Can more of those USGI 20-rd aluminum be bought today, and if so, where? Link? Where are good sources for replacement springs for old 70's & 80's 20-rd magazines? Thx! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Poll (and OP) ignores what is possibly the best-ever mag for the AR: The USGI 20-rd aluminum mag with metal follower. If reconditioned with a new mag body coating, and a new spring, one could say that failure is not an option. Can more of those USGI 20-rd aluminum be bought today, and if so, where? Link? Where are good sources for replacement springs for old 70's & 80's 20-rd magazines? Thx! A few mfrs still offer 20-rd mag pouches. Tactical Tailor has some 3- and 2-mag shingles. If you wait for a sale, they can be had for a very reasonable price. If you are OK with dyeing, then the UCP shingles are a steal, particularly on sale. I've dyed some green and brown, and they came out pretty well. See my thread on dyeing in Tactical Gear forum on this site. It's not hard to do. |
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Quoted: Yeah, in terms of buying mags for the "future generations" of kids and grandkids, my money would be on aluminum lasting longest. From Battlefield Vegas's testing: "USGI mags have outlasted all of the other brands. We use UGSI (Brownell’s with tan follower) and on a mag for mag basis, they have outlasted Pmags and a few of the other mags that we get from mfg’s with new weapons. We don’t have to worry about various generations with different weapons like the MR556, SCAR, F2000, Tavor or a couple of others that use AR15/M4 magazines." http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/ View Quote |
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Because aluminum is stronger and longer lasting than plastic.
Pmags may be not or at most are negligably more reliable compared to USGI with Magpul Followers. USGI Aluminum seem to far out last Magpul. I have a dozen gen 1 Pmags i bought almost a decade ago. None of them cracked yet and the ones I use at the range have been no more reliable than the D&H or Okay mags ( with Magpul Followers) I've been using. The only advantage I found with Pmags is that you can load them to full capacity and they will more easily seat and chamber. IMO, there is no need for me to purchase any more. I will only buy Aluminum mags for future purchases.( Unless I can buy them ridiculously cheap) Quoted:
( most magazines used in the toughest combat in the world aren't repeatedly dropped on the feedlips or run over with a truck). View Quote Marketing ploy. |
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USGI Aluminum seem to far out last Magpul. View Quote |
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The only issues that I ever had was when I was using GI aluminum in or uniform or not.
Not one, not one single issue at all, since I went with pmags. I'll stick with pmags, at least from my own personal experience, it doescthe better job. |
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NOT to slam MagPul, but there is a reason why we are currently in Gen 3 of their AR PMags. Presumably the first two generations showed some significant problems, and, therefore, Gen 3.
I still maintain that USGI aluminum mags with latest-Gen (another generation issue!) Magpul followers along with NEW springs are THE GTG standard. Add a thorough internal/external cleaning, and a re-coat of PermaSlick Teflon coating, and such mags are demonstrably better than new. Almost as good as USGI 20-rd mags with new springs. Note that good-condition followers in such 20-rd mags are many decades old, and still working well in 20-rd mags. I have my doubts than any plastic follower will be so durable. Time will tell. FWIW, I've bought a few Gen3 PMags, and they have showed no functional problems with light use, but they can be a problematic fit in some mag pouches that were NOT initially designed for PMags. That potential issue is something to be considered by PMag users. |
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Quoted: I don't think so. I still have some first generation Pmags loaded with 30 rounds sitting in ammo cans since the day I bought them which was not long after they hit the market. On the other hand some NHMTG mags I loaded and put away at the same time have failed. Some of the welds broke and the feed lips spread apart. NHMTG are the best of the AL. mags. View Quote According to the guy who runs the machine gun range in Nevada, Aluminum Mags way outlast Pmags. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/ |
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NOT to slam MagPul, but there is a reason why we are currently in Gen 3 of their AR PMags. Presumably the first two generations showed some significant problems, and, therefore, Gen 3. View Quote As far as the original PMAG to M2 evolution goes, well... the original PMAG was just kind of ugly, with the solid window on the non-window version, and it makes sense that they decided to just introduce a complete replacement design. I have a feeling it also had some dimensional compatibility issues that needed to be addressed also. |
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USGI mags wont do this: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416992/20171218_204140_1513702674308-400577.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416992/20171218_204201_1513702672602-400578.jpg View Quote |
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Nothing wrong with that. Unlike most here, I don't mind someone liking what I don't Merry Christmas. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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They'll just have dinged and bent feed lips instead. But I like my USGI Unlike most here, I don't mind someone liking what I don't Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you/yours. |
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I like them both. It gets exhausting thinking about these things sometimes, so to settle the debate for myself, I acquired a 50/50 split -- PMAG Gen 2 and Okay w/ Magpul followers.
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