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Link Posted: 9/21/2017 3:05:45 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
Given enough time, I think plastic will degrade. If there ever are heavy restrictions on magazines, I'd rather have aluminum for longevity.
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If photobucket was still viable I'd post a pic of my broken M93 stock, shattered MIAD grip, and cracked PMAG.  Needless to say, I have very little faith in the long term stability of the polymer used by Magpul.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 4:02:46 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


If photobucket was still viable I'd post a pic of my broken M93 stock, shattered MIAD grip, and cracked PMAG.  Needless to say, I have very little faith in the long term stability of the polymer used by Magpul.
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Interesting.

Well the majority of folks in the poll favor USGI ( or aluminum) mags .

How do you post pics on this site?
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 6:37:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 9/23/2017 5:55:20 PM EDT
[#4]
I still have a bunch of USGI mags with the black followers (OH SNAP), and they work as well as any other mag I've used. I used GI mags with Magpul tan followers in Iraq and they were flawless through a few thousand rounds.
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 7:51:53 PM EDT
[#5]
While I buy/stock all types of mags... Lately Okays have been my favorite to sneak in every month.

I like my pmags but I swear off the top of my head, I've had more issues with them "gen 2s" than any of my gi mags. Rare but I can think of a few ftfs and strange double feeds with them.
Link Posted: 9/28/2017 3:21:01 PM EDT
[#6]
20 rd USGI for Prone, 30 no pref black green tan usgi followers, pmag or lancer. all function just fine for me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2017 5:28:58 PM EDT
[#7]
I still run and prefer USGI (Okay industries) mags with the standard green followers.  When I started out in the military I was issued 30 round magazines with black followers, then the green followers.  I had quite a few issues with the black followers but nothing really with the green followers. YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 2:10:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Either or is fine. I like to get some of each. Pmags. D&H. OKAY. Lancers are next
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 3:08:42 AM EDT
[#9]
USGI for my A1 clone to keep things pure, pmags for all else and nothing but pmags because pmags are ten times better than USGI.
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 3:12:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Old school Infantry here.  GI mags served me well.   Now as a civilian, PMAGs  and GI mags serve me well.  Get both.  Buy cheap.  Just buy.
Link Posted: 10/2/2017 7:51:37 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
I've been on active duty for 17 years and have seen a lot of magazines over that time. I also just like collecting different types of magazines to add to the stash and to test and compare to each other. I find the different designs and characteristics interesting (I'm a mechanical engineer by education). This discussion seems to come up about once a month here, so I don't think it will ever be settled, but here's my opinion:

always be the first magazine I grab and the ones I'll take to war, if necessary.
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Solid write up, thanks for the info

Also- Brave Rifles!
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 8:37:46 AM EDT
[#12]
i have mostly pmags but just fent kinda hard on D&H mags from PSA.

the D&H mags shoot out of my rifles with force whereas the pmags kinda just poop out a little bit.


Im conflicted on what to do, gen 3 pmags are getting under $10 online now but D&H mags can be hand for $7 or even less sometimes.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 9:52:36 AM EDT
[#13]
No expert on this subject or any others but have been shooting M16's/AR15's and M4 types continuously for three decades.

Occasionally you'll get a lemon with any mass produced item. Just weed them out as they appear in training.

USGI magazines work, I have black, green and tan follower gi mags. The new followers are definitely better but also have some really old ones that work perfect also. Even have a couple of m16a1 marked 20 rounders with aluminum followers that still run great.

My personal current favorites are the D&H mags with Magpul followers. They work smooth, like the follower is riding on glass.

Also have and use Pmags, they work well also but are not my favorite as they are a tad bit heavier( weight matters as you get older) and bulkier. Time will tell how they hold up long term, but something tells me they won't last 30 years or more.

I really don't think you can go wrong with current issue gi mags with tan followers, D&H with Magpul followers or Pmags. Take your pick and stack em deep. Better yet, get some of each and hedge you bets.

It's ridiculous to say that any of them are "crap" they're just different.

JMHO/YMMV
Link Posted: 10/26/2017 3:09:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
For everyday range use either is fine.  For long term survivability I wouldn't count on PMAGs.  I've seen too many spines and feed lips crack, mag catch pockets get wallowed out, and the inside front surface get chewed up from bullet tips impacting under recoil.
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I have 200 mags, half fully loaded, never seen a split.  I don't see in real life what everyone is talking about with splits.
Link Posted: 10/26/2017 11:20:18 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Given enough time, I think plastic will degrade. If there ever are heavy restrictions on magazines, I'd rather have aluminum for longevity.
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Yeah, in terms of buying mags for the "future generations" of kids and grandkids, my money would be on aluminum lasting longest.

From Battlefield Vegas's testing:

"USGI mags have outlasted all of the other brands. We use UGSI (Brownell’s with tan follower) and on a mag for mag basis, they have outlasted Pmags and a few of the other mags that we get from mfg’s with new weapons. We don’t have to worry about various generations with different weapons like the MR556, SCAR, F2000, Tavor or a couple of others that use AR15/M4 magazines."
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/
Link Posted: 10/28/2017 4:35:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Sorry, I posted twice
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 9:54:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well I'm pretty much convinced that Pmags are better in many respects over USGI or D@H  etc..... but what about the second part of my original question?

Which are better for stocking up (for long term)?

Will the plastic bodies become brittle, before the aluminum mags degrade on account of age?
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There is a thread in the AR discussion on which hold up better, USGI was the winner.
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 10:19:59 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


There is a thread in the AR discussion on which hold up better, USGI was the winner.
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The only double feeds I have ever had were in GI mags. I have had not one in a pmag.

If it isn't a pmag, I am not using it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 12:09:52 PM EDT
[#19]
What are you gonna do when a pmag double feeds??  They wear out too.  

I've used both quite a bit and a Pmag is no doubt a better rough use mag in the short term, but I still don't think the bodies are going to be good in the long term like aluminum will.
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 12:25:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 12:27:06 PM EDT
[#21]
You should buy Pmags and leave the USGI mags for me. I prefer Okay magazines with magpul followers, NHMTG are also acceptable as they're the same thing, but seeing as Okay dissolved there sister company it's a non-issue unless you just find NOS. That said, M3 Magpul Pmags are acceptable. I'll buy which ever is cheaper at the time, but I value the USGI over the Pmags.
Link Posted: 10/29/2017 1:57:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#23]
I like both.

Aluminum fit in mag pouch bandolierswith and ammo cans the best.
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 10:44:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 12:31:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Poll (and OP) ignores what is possibly the best-ever mag for the AR: The USGI 20-rd aluminum mag with metal follower. 

If reconditioned with a new mag body coating, and a new spring, one could say that failure is not an option. 
View Quote
P40 is best ever mag
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 3:22:54 PM EDT
[#26]
I have more of both than I know what to do with... need to order some more
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 4:23:24 PM EDT
[#27]
All three are a quality product. I buy the PMags only because in my anecdotal experiance, when the PMags fail, they fail in a manner that is obvious, cracks or breaks. GI mags feed lips may bend and the failure is not always obvious.
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 4:54:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Probably the newest person that will chime in on this subject which I did read every comment posted. I say thank you for all angles and positions expressed.

I'd like to learn - Why or when are these " colored followers " changed? How are they changed? I assume you can buy this part from Magpul separate from a complete mag?
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 6:29:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 10/31/2017 7:36:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 11/7/2017 6:35:22 PM EDT
[#31]
I buy Gen 2 and 3 pmags but I upgraded all my metal mags, steel and aluminum, with new springs and magpul followers.  I’ve gotten the same performance out of both.
Link Posted: 11/8/2017 3:55:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Magazines are an item which needs occasional maintenance.  For example, the inside of the mag gets dirty, and must be cleaned lest the dirt cause unseen internal corrosion (on steel mags) or cause binding of the spring.  Another reason to clean mags internally it to compare the old spring with a new one.  Generally speaking, if the old spring is two or three coils shorter than the new spring, it's time to replace the old spring.  Yet another often-neglected regular maintenance item is that metal mag springs MUST be coated with a THIN film of oil to prevent rust.

The various colored followers are a story unto themselves.  Let's confine the discussion to the aluminum 30-rd USGI mag.  First, there was the USGI black follower, eventually replaced by the (also USGI) green follower.  The idea was to prevent the ctgs from becoming misaligned (tilted)  in the mag because of the follower allowing the ctgs to "tilt" within the mag.  Most of the later followers are called "anti-tilt" followers.  All of the new "colored" followers are an attempt to prevent this problem.  The USGI green follower seems to be a modern baseline/minimum; the black followers by all accounts should be replaced with the green followers at a minimum. 

The latest generation of MagPul followers (colors vary, and IIRC, there may be different "generations") are highly-regarded, and many users consider them to be superior to the green followers.  There are other followers, made by different mfrs, and possibly of different colors about which I am ignorant.  Some may be good, some perhaps not. 

The point is that GI magazines are considered "consumable" items by the military, and seldom repaired or maintained.  They are sold-off by the Mil for a reason.  Any and all Milsurp mags MUST be dis-assembled, inspected, parts (mostly worn springs) replaced, cleaned, and lubed.  Replacing the black follower is a must, but what you choose as a replacement is up to you.

Mag springs, if of quality construction, are not harmed by being compressed (loaded) for long periods of time.  Mag springs are worn out by many cycles of compression and extension, by being worn by rubbing against the body of the magazine, and by rusting.   Any mag spring that has the slightest rust-pitting should be relegated to range use, and the spring will need to be replaced eventually.  Any mag spring that is too short, compared to a new one should likewise be replaced.  Aside from damaged feed lips, which damage is often visible (and often correctible) worn spring are a prime source of magazine problems.  Your half-dead mag spring with a new, high-tech follower will still likely cause you problems until you fix the underlying cause.

It is an excellent idea to uniquely identify all your magazines, so that you can segregate and fix one that is giving problems.  Without such ID, they all look alike, and the troublesome mag will be indistinguishable from the good ones. 

I hope this is useful.
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Thank you for the information - I come to learn and be enlightened, not just order and move on. You mentioned about spring maintance which makes sense - but I would be buying NEW steel/alum mags. So this wouldn't be something to do initially, but good to know. I was inquiring because I want to get a few, and if I need/should change followers, I want to do so before using them to get the best reliability out of them. I have seen that some manufacturers label that they have them with magpul followers in them already ( Speaking of Okay Industries as that's who I was researching currently ATM)
Link Posted: 11/8/2017 3:56:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I buy Gen 2 and 3 pmags but I upgraded all my metal mags, steel and aluminum, with new springs and magpul followers.  I’ve gotten the same performance out of both.
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Would you do this if they were new to achieve BETTER perceived performance?
Link Posted: 11/9/2017 2:02:38 PM EDT
[#34]
I think PMags are better in every way, except for cost. But even then, Gen 2 PMags are selling online for really cheap, like $7.50 per or so. Hell, Palmetto is practically trying to give them away by tossing ten pmags into almost every daily deal sale.

If the price you see USGI for is only a couple dollars less than what you can get pmags for, why bother with USGI?

I would only consider buying USGI if I found them for less than $5 including all taxes and fees. And even then, that would only be to store them in a SHTF stockpile alongside cases of cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 11/9/2017 2:51:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Poll (and OP) ignores what is possibly the best-ever mag for the AR: The USGI 20-rd aluminum mag with metal follower. 

If reconditioned with a new mag body coating, and a new spring, one could say that failure is not an option. 
View Quote
@raf
Can more of those USGI 20-rd aluminum  be bought today, and if so, where?  Link?


Where are good sources for replacement springs for old 70's & 80's 20-rd magazines?

Thx!
Link Posted: 11/9/2017 4:35:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 10:20:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yeah, in terms of buying mags for the "future generations" of kids and grandkids, my money would be on aluminum lasting longest.

From Battlefield Vegas's testing:

"USGI mags have outlasted all of the other brands. We use UGSI (Brownell’s with tan follower) and on a mag for mag basis, they have outlasted Pmags and a few of the other mags that we get from mfg’s with new weapons. We don’t have to worry about various generations with different weapons like the MR556, SCAR, F2000, Tavor or a couple of others that use AR15/M4 magazines."
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/
View Quote
I brought this exact topic up on another thread and no one could explain why the USGI magazines outlasted the polymer magazines.  I heard all the same worn out cliches and opinions but no one could give me a solid answer why the usgi magazines were more durable( or why the polymer magazines were less durable) in this particular scenario which involved a very large sample size over a long time period involving millions of rounds fired.  The criticism in previous " torture test" has always been too small of a sample size yet here we have large sample size with probable more real life conditions( most magazines used in the toughest combat in the world aren't repeatedly dropped on the feedlips or run over with a truck).  I guess everyone wants their favorite magazine to be the best.
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 12:40:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Because aluminum is stronger and longer lasting than plastic.

Pmags may be not or at most are negligably more reliable compared to USGI with Magpul Followers.

USGI Aluminum seem to far out last Magpul.

I have a dozen gen 1 Pmags i bought almost a decade ago. None of them cracked yet and the ones I use at the range have been no more reliable than the D&H or Okay mags ( with Magpul Followers) I've been using.

The only advantage I found with Pmags is that you can load them to full capacity and they will more easily seat and chamber.

IMO, there is no need for me to purchase any more.

I will only buy Aluminum mags for future purchases.( Unless I can buy them ridiculously cheap)

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

( most magazines used in the toughest combat in the world aren't repeatedly dropped on the feedlips or run over with a truck).
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Correct.

Marketing ploy.
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 2:20:35 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

USGI Aluminum seem to far out last Magpul.
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I don't think so. I still have some first generation Pmags loaded with 30 rounds sitting in ammo cans since the day I bought them which was not long after they hit the market. On the other hand some NHMTG mags I loaded and put away at the same time have failed. Some of the welds broke and the feed lips spread apart. NHMTG are the best of the AL. mags.
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#40]
The only issues that I ever had was when I was using GI aluminum in or uniform or not.

Not one, not one single issue at all, since I went with pmags.

I'll stick with pmags, at least from my own personal experience, it doescthe better job.
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 4:56:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I don't think so. I still have some first generation Pmags loaded with 30 rounds sitting in ammo cans since the day I bought them which was not long after they hit the market. On the other hand some NHMTG mags I loaded and put away at the same time have failed. Some of the welds broke and the feed lips spread apart. NHMTG are the best of the AL. mags.
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Anything man made can fail; although your situation sems very unusual.

According to the guy who runs the machine gun range in Nevada, Aluminum Mags way outlast Pmags.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 6:41:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
NOT to slam MagPul, but there is a reason why we are currently in Gen 3 of their AR PMags.  Presumably the first two generations showed some significant problems, and, therefore, Gen 3.
View Quote
While they have made design improvements for strength (like the overinsertion tab on the back of the M3), the big change from M2 to M3 was a dimensional compatibility issue. If you look at their older line, they had the EMAG that was designed to work in other NATO rifles besides the M16/M4. The M3 PMAG was intended to do away with those sorts of variations and combine things into one magazine that would fit in all NATO rifles that accept USGI-style metal magazines. My understanding is that they kept the M2 around because there are some commercial AR lowers that don’t quite conform to the M3 specs but work with M2s. The compatibility issues come in to play with the ribs on the outside of the PMAG.

As far as the original PMAG to M2 evolution goes, well... the original PMAG was just kind of ugly, with the solid window on the non-window version, and it makes sense that they decided to just introduce a complete replacement design. I have a feeling it also had some dimensional compatibility issues that needed to be addressed also.
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 11:30:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 12/24/2017 11:46:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 12:21:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 2:09:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
True.

But I like my USGI
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
They'll just have dinged and bent feed lips instead.
True.

But I like my USGI
Nothing wrong with that.

Unlike most here, I don't mind someone liking what I don't

Merry Christmas.
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 2:19:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 1:04:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 1:18:25 PM EDT
[#50]
I like them both. It gets exhausting thinking about these things sometimes, so to settle the debate for myself, I acquired a 50/50 split -- PMAG Gen 2 and Okay w/ Magpul followers.
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