AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/5/2014 7:38:06 PM EDT
|
I have heard rumors of pmags failing while being used in very cold temperatures? Is there any truth to that?
|
|
Ambient temp according to accuweather is -14. Temp according to my truck is -6.
Mag is M3, loaded with 30 rounds. Drop onto bare concrete from a distance of just over 5'. That's where I would be doing my loading/manipulations. Drop onto base. No effect other than cosmetic. Drop onto cover. NEOTC. Removed cover, dropped onto feed lips. NEOTC. Wiped off mag, reinstalled cover, put back into truck.  I am satisfied.
|
|
Quoted:
Ambient temp according to accuweather is -14. Temp according to my truck is -6. Mag is M3, loaded with 30 rounds. Drop onto bare concrete from a distance of just over 5'. That's where I would be doing my loading/manipulations. Drop onto base. No effect other than cosmetic. Drop onto cover. NEOTC. Removed cover, dropped onto feed lips. NEOTC. Wiped off mag, reinstalled cover, put back into truck. I am satisfied.Thanks for the info, proves the rumor is bullshit. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the info, proves the rumor is bullshit. Not bullshit. The military tested PMAGs extensively a few years back and rejected them based on, among other things, broken feedlips when dropped in arctic conditions. I'm not saying that it is something you need to be overly concerned about, and maybe MagPul have tweaked their resin formulation since then, but it's not just bullshit rumors. They also had problems with insect repellent, but that's not your problem right now 
|
| They will shatter when dropped loaded at -60 though... Was pulling a bag out of my truck that I had left in it over night, mag was under it on the seat and fell onto the ground. Maybe a 4 ft fall with a bounce off the floorboard. Landed on its spine and cracked open like a clam shell. I can't fault the mag at those temps though, I have dropped a peice of black steel pipe and had it break like glass at those temps. |
|
Okie dokie, I grabbed the mag off of the deck and walked out to the parking lot It's really f'in cold out too  My truck thermometer says it is -15  Anyway I dropped it twice on the sides and twice on the feedlips and twice on the spine on a open spot of blacktop next to my pickup. **Please note that I did not drop it on the on the base plate because I have Ranger Plates on the magazine**  The magazine was dropped from about two feet over my head, I am 6'1" |
|
Quoted:
Not bullshit. The military tested PMAGs extensively a few years back and rejected them based on, among other things, broken feedlips when dropped in arctic conditions. I'm not saying that it is something you need to be overly concerned about, and maybe MagPul have tweaked their resin formulation since then, but it's not just bullshit rumors. They also had problems with insect repellent, but that's not your problem right now Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the info, proves the rumor is bullshit. Not bullshit. The military tested PMAGs extensively a few years back and rejected them based on, among other things, broken feedlips when dropped in arctic conditions. I'm not saying that it is something you need to be overly concerned about, and maybe MagPul have tweaked their resin formulation since then, but it's not just bullshit rumors. They also had problems with insect repellent, but that's not your problem right now The "extensive" military test you are describing was a non lab eval of the first PMag when it was initially put up for eval through the SEP (Solider Enhancement Program) In this test they noted a crack in the first gen PMag after a -30 drop. No function testing was done to see if the PMag was functional, no controls were used (ie no USGI dropped or function tested) and only one magazine was tested. The chem resistivity comment came about only on the window of the the mag level mag and this did not affect the magazines strength or functionality (not that they did any function testing). |
|
Quoted:
They will shatter when dropped loaded at -60 though... Was pulling a bag out of my truck that I had left in it over night, mag was under it on the seat and fell onto the ground. Maybe a 4 ft fall with a bounce off the floorboard. Landed on its spine and cracked open like a clam shell. I can't fault the mag at those temps though, I have dropped a peice of black steel pipe and had it break like glass at those temps. We have been steadily improving cold weather performance of the PMag with the Gen 2 being rated down to -30 and the Gen 3 being rated down to -60. Here is our -60 M3 drop test video compared to a USGI magazine. 
|
|
Quoted:
The "extensive" military test you are describing was a non lab eval of the first PMag when it was initially put up for eval through the SEP (Solider Enhancement Program) In this test they noted a crack in the first gen PMag after a -30 drop. No function testing was done to see if the PMag was functional, no controls were used (ie no USGI dropped or function tested) and only one magazine was tested. The chem resistivity comment came about only on the window of the the mag level mag and this did not affect the magazines strength or functionality (not that they did any function testing). Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the info, proves the rumor is bullshit. Not bullshit. The military tested PMAGs extensively a few years back and rejected them based on, among other things, broken feedlips when dropped in arctic conditions. I'm not saying that it is something you need to be overly concerned about, and maybe MagPul have tweaked their resin formulation since then, but it's not just bullshit rumors. They also had problems with insect repellent, but that's not your problem right now The "extensive" military test you are describing was a non lab eval of the first PMag when it was initially put up for eval through the SEP (Solider Enhancement Program) In this test they noted a crack in the first gen PMag after a -30 drop. No function testing was done to see if the PMag was functional, no controls were used (ie no USGI dropped or function tested) and only one magazine was tested. The chem resistivity comment came about only on the window of the the mag level mag and this did not affect the magazines strength or functionality (not that they did any function testing). I'm sure you know a lot more about the military testing than I do, I'm willing to believe your assertion that cold weather cracking is much less of an issue with current generation PMAGs, and I'm sure other mags have their issues too. The intention of my reply above was simply to inform the OP that PMAGs breaking in cold weather is not just a bullshit rumor... that it did happen. |
|
I saw the results of the ARDC, it was done by a lab and it was 4 magazines not 1 and the results were broken, cracked feed lips and ejected rounds
The chemical testing did show more than just window crazing, to include cracking I still find PMAGs and EMAGs better than USGI; the test conditions for cold weather are well beyond what I expect |
|
Quoted:
I saw the results of the ARDC, it was done by a lab and it was 4 magazines not 1 and the results were broken, cracked feed lips and ejected rounds The chemical testing did show more than just window crazing, to include cracking I still find PMAGs and EMAGs better than USGI; the test conditions for cold weather are well beyond what I expect They used four mags total but not four mags per test. The eval had no controls and did not test the magazine to any documented standard. Nor did they attempt to live fire the magazine or test a USGI magazine in the same test. All results was what was "observed" by the user but not tested to see what effect the damage had, other than cosmetic. In the chemical test the window was the only part of the magazine affected and this did not affect functionality of the magazine. Again this eval was done on the very initial first gen PMags, both cold weather performance and chemical resistivity were substantially improved in the M2 and further improved in the M3 We are slated to have the M3 into Mil approved 3rd party testing sometime early this year. For those interested in what type of testing, here is some of the testing (also non lab/unscentific). PMag M3 USGI high speed video HK416 full auto testing |
|
Quoted:
They used four mags total but not four mags per test. The eval had no controls and did not test the magazine to any documented standard. Nor did they attempt to live fire the magazine or test a USGI magazine in the same test. All results was what was "observed" by the user but not tested to see what effect the damage had, other than cosmetic. In the chemical test the window was the only part of the magazine affected and this did not affect functionality of the magazine. Again this eval was done on the very initial first gen PMags, both cold weather performance and chemical resistivity were substantially improved in the M2 and further improved in the M3 We are slated to have the M3 into Mil approved 3rd party testing sometime early this year. For those interested in what type of testing, here is some of the testing (also non lab/unscentific). PMag M3 USGI high speed video HK416 full auto testing Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw the results of the ARDC, it was done by a lab and it was 4 magazines not 1 and the results were broken, cracked feed lips and ejected rounds The chemical testing did show more than just window crazing, to include cracking I still find PMAGs and EMAGs better than USGI; the test conditions for cold weather are well beyond what I expect They used four mags total but not four mags per test. The eval had no controls and did not test the magazine to any documented standard. Nor did they attempt to live fire the magazine or test a USGI magazine in the same test. All results was what was "observed" by the user but not tested to see what effect the damage had, other than cosmetic. In the chemical test the window was the only part of the magazine affected and this did not affect functionality of the magazine. Again this eval was done on the very initial first gen PMags, both cold weather performance and chemical resistivity were substantially improved in the M2 and further improved in the M3 We are slated to have the M3 into Mil approved 3rd party testing sometime early this year. For those interested in what type of testing, here is some of the testing (also non lab/unscentific). PMag M3 USGI high speed video HK416 full auto testing Well. I certainly don't plan on being anywhere that it is -30, let alone -60. I still buy 90% pmags and have not had problems with them yet. |
|
Good knowledge, thanks for posting everyone, but the extreme cold weather shattering has to be the tail wagging the dog or begging a reason to stay with current USGI shit.
If a unit prepares to do anything in -60 degree weather their entire loadout has to change. My butthurt over the USMC's ban of PMAG's is still fresh. |
|
Im going to be more worried of surcoming to hypothermia than my mags failing at -60 degrees. Nothing works at that temperature (Im exaggerating). Much respect for Korean Vets.
Oh and guess what, rockets dont work that well either in those kind of temperatures either. |
|
Quoted: The type of cold that effected them in military testing was like 30-40 below zero. I broke a few in AK during some personal testing, and magpul replaced them for free. They do not do as well as usgi mags when you get past -20 or so, but then again metal does weird shit when it get to double digit negatives. I say you have more stuff to worry about than breaking a mag if your fighting in cold weather. |
|
I have conflicting information. From a friend in Fairbanks on the AST SIRT team he told me they had Pmags fail at -50 below (actual temp) and the feed lips broke when being inserted in the gun during reloading. He had the magazines to show me. However I have a friend in the miltiary who did some cold weather testing on them at -30 and he reported they held up fine. Where I am at the coldest it gets is -5 below. I would not worry about it. Also these were the previous generation mags not the new Gen 3's.
Pat |
|
Quoted:
I have conflicting information. From a friend in Fairbanks on the AST SIRT team he told me they had Pmags fail at -50 below (actual temp) and the feed lips broke when being inserted in the gun during reloading. He had the magazines to show me. However I have a friend in the miltiary who did some cold weather testing on them at -30 and he reported they held up fine. Where I am at the coldest it gets is -5 below. I would not worry about it. Also these were the previous generation mags not the new Gen 3's. Pat How did those two say the USGI's held up at those temps? |
|
Quoted:
I have conflicting information. From a friend in Fairbanks on the AST SIRT team he told me they had Pmags fail at -50 below (actual temp) and the feed lips broke when being inserted in the gun during reloading. He had the magazines to show me. However I have a friend in the miltiary who did some cold weather testing on them at -30 and he reported they held up fine. Where I am at the coldest it gets is -5 below. I would not worry about it. Also these were the previous generation mags not the new Gen 3's. Pat Again please note that cold weather strength has steadily improved with various PMag releases. Current M2 is rated to -30 and M3 is rated to -60. In both tests the USGI controls, dropped at 5 feet to concrete were damaged enough to cause a failure during firing. The the M2 and M3 PMags ran all 30 rounds without failure. |
|
Quoted:
How did those two say the USGI's held up at those temps? Quoted:
Quoted:
I have conflicting information. From a friend in Fairbanks on the AST SIRT team he told me they had Pmags fail at -50 below (actual temp) and the feed lips broke when being inserted in the gun during reloading. He had the magazines to show me. However I have a friend in the miltiary who did some cold weather testing on them at -30 and he reported they held up fine. Where I am at the coldest it gets is -5 below. I would not worry about it. Also these were the previous generation mags not the new Gen 3's. Pat How did those two say the USGI's held up at those temps? Never an issue reported from cold at least. I prefer P mags and I would not worry about it with the new Gen 3 design. Pat |
|
Quoted:
Again please note that cold weather strength has steadily improved with various PMag releases. Current M2 is rated to -30 and M3 is rated to -60. In both tests the USGI controls, dropped at 5 feet to concrete were damaged enough to cause a failure during firing. The the M2 and M3 PMags ran all 30 rounds without failure. Quoted:
Quoted:
I have conflicting information. From a friend in Fairbanks on the AST SIRT team he told me they had Pmags fail at -50 below (actual temp) and the feed lips broke when being inserted in the gun during reloading. He had the magazines to show me. However I have a friend in the miltiary who did some cold weather testing on them at -30 and he reported they held up fine. Where I am at the coldest it gets is -5 below. I would not worry about it. Also these were the previous generation mags not the new Gen 3's. Pat Again please note that cold weather strength has steadily improved with various PMag releases. Current M2 is rated to -30 and M3 is rated to -60. In both tests the USGI controls, dropped at 5 feet to concrete were damaged enough to cause a failure during firing. The the M2 and M3 PMags ran all 30 rounds without failure. I love your stuff and am not worried. I use pretty much all Pmags now. Pat |
AR Sponsor