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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:19:09 AM EDT
I'm thinking about ordering some USGI mags from USArmory. They have 2 different kinds of USGI 30 rounders and I am thinking of getting the teflon coated.

Are the teflon mags the newest production of all USGI mags? Are teflon USGI malfunction free or has there ever been an older version of the USGI teflon mags with any known problems?

Thanks
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:10:40 PM EDT
What kind of prices are they offering?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:21:05 PM EDT
$15.95 brand new
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:16:12 PM EDT
C Products
44mag
DSG
Bravo

I have ordered from each of these places with no problems.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:25:43 PM EDT

Are the teflon mags the newest production of all USGI mags?

Read the FAQ.
USGI mags are not Teflon finished, despite what many claim. Current USGI mags are finished with a dry moly lube. Teflon is a nice finish, just not mil spec (as much as I hate that word).
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:31:30 AM EDT
According to the Rawles article they are Teflon finished. That FAQ is from the "Ban" days. The FAQ lists RAwles as one of the contributors.

According to Rawles "G.I. contract 30 round. Black plastic followers. Teflon finish. This is
the latest pre-ban military specification, which started only in June, 1994). "

http://www.rawles.to/AR-15_M16_Magazine_FAQ.html

USArmory has an excellent rep, and I doubt they would sell something as USGI if it wasn't.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:15:28 AM EDT
Teflon coated 30 round mags ARE NOT USGI!

The design of these mags might be, but there are no United States Government Issued (USGI) Teflon coated mags out there. USGI are dry Moly film as stated above. Anyone can advertise USGI. It doesn't break any laws.

$15.95 is a TERRIBLE Price! Worst I've seen in 18 months.

Go to DSG arms and get them all day long for under $11.00 with magpul enhanced followers if you buy 10.

Stick around Noobie...and listen. You might learn something.

Tack



Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:36:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 1:39:53 PM EDT by Tim_AR15]
I guess my question is, are the teflon mags refinished USGI mags or are they commercial mags? Or is it that they are confusing the teflon for dry lube?

Nice attitude Tack!

I might be new to the forum and the AR15, but no to the scene.

I've bought plenty from USArmory for my M1A and have yet to see anything from them that is not USGI. They have a good rep just like Fulton Armory. If the mags weren't USGI they wouldn't be selling them as such.

When you have an FAQ with several contributors listed and one of the contributors has an additional article stating that Teflon mags ARE USGI, then don't blame me for reading from it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:47:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 6:33:36 PM EDT by TigerStripe]
USGI and mil-spec do not connote quality. The bodies may be made to "USGI spec" and be teflon coated. AFAIK, the military doesn't issue any teflon coated mags. That doesn't mean they aren't good mags. People, both reputable and not, often advertize such mags and other parts as USGI and/or mil-spec. Both are loaded words but in the end rarely mean anything.



TS

ETA: Changed are to aren't and underlined it...
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:51:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 2:52:30 PM EDT by Tim_AR15]
I guess I'm used to M14 parts where USGI definitely means something. Parts are either USGI or not, there is no mil-spec or USGI that doesn't really mean USGI. USGI does not mean "USGI spec" in the M14 world.

All the trigger parts, magazine bodies, bolts, etc have maker codes and there is no questions as to whether the parts are USGI by US Gov't contractors or not. Even small parts like extractors, firing pins, and the like can be found that are definitely USGI. All of my M14 mags are USGI magazines made for the military M14 rifle. It seems that this designation is not so clear with the M16.

So, I guess the message that I'm getting is that USGI is not the same in the AR world, right?

To me (from the M14 world) USGI means only US Goverment Issue by a gov't contractors to be used in combat by the military. It's not a label that people slap on M14 parts like "mil-spec", because it is extremely obvious when something is not USGI for the M14 (magazines included).
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:11:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 3:26:19 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
No, unfortunately "USGI" and "mil-spec" are batted around pretty loosely in the AR world. USGI should imply used or surplus US military equipment, but it does not. Mil-spec just implies that it is made to one of many vague military specifications. D&H Industries makes USGI mags that are moly coated. Their teflon coated mags are identical dimensionally, but have a different finish that is not used "officially" by the US military. Both are marked with cage codes, which doesn't really imply anything other than that the maker has one.

However, and this is a big HOWEVER, the term military "issue" covers a lot of ground these days. All branches of the military now open-purchase everything from tools to clothing to weapon components at the unit level to supplement or replace more officially designated equipment. Thus, there absolutely are teflon coated mags in use in the US military, but they were purchased at the unit level or bought by individuals. Web gear, lights, sights, Motorola Talkabouts, GPS receivers are other common examples.

Edit: I forgot to add, $15.95 is a ridiculous price to pay for USGI mags. I haven't paid more than $10 for a new mag since 2004. Those $15.95 mags will be made by one of the same companies that makes the $8-10 mags. If they are teflon coated, more than likely they are D&H brand.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:53:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim_AR15:
I guess I'm used to M14 parts where USGI definitely means something. Parts are either USGI or not, there is no mil-spec or USGI that doesn't really mean USGI. USGI does not mean "USGI spec" in the M14 world.

All the trigger parts, magazine bodies, bolts, etc have maker codes and there is no questions as to whether the parts are USGI by US Gov't contractors or not. Even small parts like extractors, firing pins, and the like can be found that are definitely USGI. All of my M14 mags are USGI magazines made for the military M14 rifle. It seems that this designation is not so clear with the M16.

So, I guess the message that I'm getting is that USGI is not the same in the AR world, right?

To me (from the M14 world) USGI means only US Goverment Issue by a gov't contractors to be used in combat by the military. It's not a label that people slap on M14 parts like "mil-spec", because it is extremely obvious when something is not USGI for the M14 (magazines included).

Good point! USGI is simply not good enough for most of the folks in the AR15 world, 99.9 % who never go anywhere more dangerous than the rifle range. Heaven help you if you have a 30 round mag with a black follower like the ones I was issued in the military last weekend! This ranks right up there with defective body armorI'm not saying this is a bad thing , innovation is good, but much different from the world of M1 carbines, M1 Garands, and M14/M1As where USGI parts are considered top of the heap.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:33:05 AM EDT
cproductsllc $9.50 for 30 rounder
see their post in EE

ordered mine last night
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:20:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KurtVF:
...innovation is good, but much different from the world of M1 carbines, M1 Garands, and M14/M1As where USGI parts are considered top of the heap.



KurtVF,

I'm just curious as to how you feel about the 1911. It is interesting to note, as you have pointed out, that there have been very little attempt at innovation with regard to the above mentioned firearms. Yet there has been a great deal of inovation attemted with the AR-15 and 1911.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:59:27 PM EDT
I think it started with the 1911 since for a while that was the "standard" combat pistol that was fairly easy to accessorize and the market demanded lots of stuff to keep up with shooters needs and wants. IPSC (or whatever it is) has been around for quite some time and is based on 1911 style pistols. AR15 accessorizing has only been popular for the past 5 years or so and has since surpassed the 1911. M1 carbines and Garands and M14's attract people that want them "exactly the way they were" etc.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:24:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 5:34:22 PM EDT by Tim_AR15]
Kurt VF said:

"M1 carbines and Garands and M14's attract people that want them "exactly the way they were" etc."

Actually in the M14 world the majority of non-USGI parts suck. And I mean suck to the point of being unreliable. You are really taking your chances if you use a non-USGI or SA-forged bolt. The Chinese bolts are dangerous. aftermarket magazines suck. After market extractors, trigger groups (and internal parts), and a whole host of other parts really do suck, it's not just hype and it's not people wanting them "exactly the way they were". The only new commercial parts being made are small parts like gas pistons by Sadlak industries. SA makes bolts and op rods, but you can't buy them, you can only buy a full rifle.

Keep in mind that the AR is in current production not only commercially but militarily, so the parts are of a current make (even the old parts are more current than M14 parts).

Non-USGI parts are a real issue with the M14/M1A, there are very very few people who make new production M14 parts as it is, and even fewer that make good parts. Things like op rods and bolts are not currently made by anybody except for Springfield Armory (and they are cast). The only others are USGI forged parts (which are superior) or Chinese parts (soft). It's not so much a matter of wanting the rifle as it was, you have to understand that there are no parts makers for the M14 currently. If you want a bolt or other main component for the AR15 you can go shopping big time at multiple current producers of AR's.

Nobody makes magazines for the M14. There's not a company that comes on to the M14 boards and says "Hey I have magazines I am making that are USGI spec". You either buy USGI (meaning government issue from the 1960's)or you get a magazine that sucks (with the exception of the Taiwanese mags which are USGI tooling). You will not find anybody suggesting that you get anything but an actual USGI magazine for an M14, and it isn't because they want it "as it was". The damn thing won't feed without one.

Just a little info on where I was coming from with USGI, I'm used to it meaning something.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:21:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim_AR15:
Kurt VF said:

"M1 carbines and Garands and M14's attract people that want them "exactly the way they were" etc."

Actually in the M14 world the majority of non-USGI parts suck. And I mean suck to the point of being unreliable. You are really taking your chances if you use a non-USGI or SA-forged bolt. The Chinese bolts are dangerous. aftermarket magazines suck. After market extractors, trigger groups (and internal parts), and a whole host of other parts really do suck, it's not just hype and it's not people wanting them "exactly the way they were". The only new commercial parts being made are small parts like gas pistons by Sadlak industries. SA makes bolts and op rods, but you can't buy them, you can only buy a full rifle.

Keep in mind that the AR is in current production not only commercially but militarily, so the parts are of a current make (even the old parts are more current than M14 parts).

Non-USGI parts are a real issue with the M14/M1A, there are very very few people who make new production M14 parts as it is, and even fewer that make good parts. Things like op rods and bolts are not currently made by anybody except for Springfield Armory (and they are cast). The only others are USGI forged parts (which are superior) or Chinese parts (soft). It's not so much a matter of wanting the rifle as it was, you have to understand that there are no parts makers for the M14 currently. If you want a bolt or other main component for the AR15 you can go shopping big time at multiple current producers of AR's.

Nobody makes magazines for the M14. There's not a company that comes on to the M14 boards and says "Hey I have magazines I am making that are USGI spec". You either buy USGI (meaning government issue from the 1960's)or you get a magazine that sucks (with the exception of the Taiwanese mags which are USGI tooling). You will not find anybody suggesting that you get anything but an actual USGI magazine for an M14, and it isn't because they want it "as it was". The damn thing won't feed without one.

Just a little info on where I was coming from with USGI, I'm used to it meaning something.



Boy you nailed it on the head there. I found all that out three years ago when I got the hankerin' for an M1A. If you don't get true USGI parts for an M14/M1A, you don't know what you may end up with. I really wish someone would make a true USGI spec maga for the M14. I could use about ten more. But when you have to pay around forty bucks a mag, if you're like me you just try to be happy with the few that you've got.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:28:12 AM EDT
Smith apparently makes a forged match rear sight assy. LRB is making barrels.... Things will get better if there is a demand for them.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:32:41 PM EDT
Supposedly LRB is going to start making either botls or op rods, but that has been a long time coming.

I'm just saying that USGI means something different for M14 parts than it does AR parts. (Which I just learned.)

Thanks for the info all.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:39:50 AM EDT
I stocked up on M14 and M1 parts when the CMP used to sell them. The price has skyrocketed recently.
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