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Posted: 3/16/2006 2:28:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 2:23:39 PM EDT by metroplex]
I have purchased over 40 DH mags from the end of 2005 (date stamped 8-05 through 12-05). Some are dry film finished, most are gray teflon.

Some were bought from 44mag.com, DSGarms.com, and Bravo Company. Every single one of them has this weird deformity at the rear:


What is it? From the front/inside of the mag, it looks like a fold, not really a crack. But every single mag has this... I have not used them at all except maybe test fit only a few of them in my ARs.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:31:17 PM EDT
Ouch! Will be looking at mine tonight.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:34:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 2:35:47 PM EDT by metroplex]
I stockpiled a whole bunch of these mags because the vendors had great prices ($9-$11 per mag w/ Magpul installed!!) and didn't bother to take a closer look at the mags. I have never seen "cracked feed lips" before but I was told it occurs towards the rear of the mag. Is this it?

I thought only a few had them until I re-inspected every single one and they all had that horizontal unfinished "line" with that weird bend/cut at the corner. That's definitely not a coincidence.

The Good News: None of my DH mags have "bent" feed lips (towards the front) or burrs on the sides. I have not tried feeding cartridges using the mags since I assumed quality USGI mags should be good to go.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:31:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:38:23 PM EDT
Uh oh. Man, that stinks. Anyone have a contact number for D&H, because they need to see these things. A quick Google search didn't turn them up. Stuff like this is going to give them a blow to their reputation, I think.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By billclo:
Uh oh. Man, that stinks. Anyone have a contact number for D&H, because they need to see these things. A quick Google search didn't turn them up. Stuff like this is going to give them a blow to their reputation, I think.




Why? It's not a crack.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 4:52:19 PM EDT by WWoodworth]
..
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:44:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
Just where the feed lip is created. Not a crack. A crack shows visible light and is from use.




all the ones I sell looked like that and they aren't cracked, I'll take another look when I can
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:44:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 7:10:57 PM EDT by billclo]
nevermind
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:47:12 PM EDT
Well, you've started something billclo. Everyone is checking mags now.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:52:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:54:17 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:04:05 PM EDT
I just checked one of mine. A D/H from DSGarms.com It looks just like the one in the picture from metroplex.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:04:41 PM EDT
Pull upwards on the feedlip that appears cracked. If the "crack" spreads wider, then it really is a crack. If it stays put and doesn't spread, then it most likely isn't really a crack.

This is actually quite common for mags of all manufacture. Not all have this line, but many do. Even upon close examination, it looks like a crack. They best way to tell is to pull on them like I described.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:10:42 PM EDT
It only looks like a crack, but its more like a fold when you look at it from inside the mag. Wouldn't this be a fatigue prone area that would eventually lead to a crack with regular use?

The mag in the photo has the gray dry film finish. The rest are gray teflon (or goldish teflon) but the rear looks exactly the same on all 40+ DH mags made between 8-05 and 12-05.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:12:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
Just where the feed lip is created. Not a crack. A crack shows visible light and is from use.




all the ones I sell looked like that and they aren't cracked, I'll take another look when I can



Ditto. All my BC mags have that mark, but no cracks. All is well.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:25:33 PM EDT
All 5 of my D&H mags with "Larsen Firearms" floorplates have a very similiar mark. Just looks like where the aluminum is folded over or stamped. Your's looks a tad bit rougher, but I'm sure it's normal. I tried prying on it with my finger and could not get it to budge nor see any daylight.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:29:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:36:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 5:43:52 PM EDT by billclo]

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
billclo - I read where you had some questionable mags from a dealer on arfcom, but to assume that the line 'shouldn't be there' is incorrect. And to assume that D&H is somehow an overall inferior product because of your last transaction would also be incorrect IMO.

We sell large quantities of these - mostly to users that shoot them right away and often. There are no bad batches to report or widespread complaints to inform you of. This thread and your original thread have been the most I've heard about this subject in a year...


Originally Posted By billclo:
I blew the pic up some, and it sure looks like a crack to me. Even if it isnt', it shouldn't be there.




Thank you for your input. I'm pretty soured on D&H at this point, but it's good to hear that there aren't widespread problems. You know how it is, you never hear about the positive, only the problems. Hey, if it helps keep the makers on their toes, trying to improve their product...all to the good.

I stand corrected on that line not supposed to be there. I checked the D&H mags I still had (haven't shipped them back), and mine all have a pronounced line; looks like maybe a seam?

I checked a few of my pre-ban Center mags; they don't have the line, but do have tool marks there like the metal was formed/stretched. Only one mag had a line, and it was an FN mag. From the original picture, it looked like a crack to me, but I guess not at this point.

Nevermind....
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:40:19 AM EDT
All twenty-two of my D&H mags, whether they have D&H or Bravo Co. floorplates, have this little seam. I compared them to my old Parsons and Sanchez mags and they do not have this seam, or at least it isn't noticeable. My CP mags don't have an obvious seam either, but if you look on the inside it looks like a spot weld in this area.

Could this have the potential to be a weak spot? So far I have not had any magazine-related malfunctions with the D&H mags that I've had for a couple of months, but I haven't had a chance to load up and use any of the D&H mags that I got from BC in the ten pack recently.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:48:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 5:49:15 AM EDT by metroplex]
Where do mags typically crack in the rear (as per "feed lip cracking" problems)? In that spot? If so, anything that interferes with the rigidty of that surface may contribute to cracking/fatigue over a long period of time. Maybe that is why there was a sudden price drop on DH mags? Were they factory 2nds/3rds?
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:13:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Where do mags typically crack in the rear (as per "feed lip cracking" problems)? In that spot? If so, anything that interferes with the rigidty of that surface may contribute to cracking/fatigue over a long period of time. Maybe that is why there was a sudden price drop on DH mags? Were they factory 2nds/3rds?



When feedlips crack (rare, but I have done it ) they typically do not crack in the location of this mark. They crack along the upper curved part of the mag, just above this seam.

I examined mine - it appears to be part of the manufacturing process - almost looks like a welded seam. From the inside - these look very similar to my preban mags.

The most important things with mags.... is DO THEY WORK. Mags are an expendable part of the AR15/M16 system. I plan on testing mine out very soon, as I bought a bunch of the new D&H teflons with Magpuls. So far, I dont see any glaring issues.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:28:04 AM EDT
I live in NY and somehow I have one of these highly dangerous (in the eyes of our paternal leaders) post ban D&H mags. I think it came with a rifle I pruchased. It too has the line. It merely the point where the metal is folded over and meets the flat top of the rear wall. It looks fine to me. I also see this same line on some of my pre ban, (and therefore less dangerous in the eyes of our paternal leaders), Center, Okay and even Colt mags. Since these mags have stood the test of time, yours should too. This fold actually increases the strength of the metal where it is bent to retain the bullet.

This particular bit of metal is fully removed from all the 20 round mags I have. Even if the joint would fail, or you remove that area, the mag should still perform fine.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 7:29:15 AM EDT
Why doesn't the other side of the mag have the same fold mark?
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:42:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 8:44:05 AM EDT by metroplex]
N/M, found contact info
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:04:22 AM EDT
I contacted DH about this and I am awaiting a response.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:06:31 AM EDT
It is on both sides on many of my mags. On some mags it is just more visible than others. FWIW, on my mags, it usually seems to be more visible on the left side as show above. On my steel Singapore made SA80 mags it is present too but about half way between the base as show above and the tip of the feed lips.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:14:16 AM EDT
All my NHMTGs look fine!

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:36:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:41:46 AM EDT
It's just a crease.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:
It's just a crease.



crease P Pronunciation Key (krs)
n.

1. A line made by pressing, folding, or wrinkling.

2. In ar15.com terminology, with specific reference to the latest anal tirades against D&H magazines, it is known as the end of the world.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 12:22:19 PM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By sovereign:
2. In ar15.com terminology, with specific reference to the latest anal tirades against D&H magazines, it is known as the end of the world.



Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:23:09 PM EDT
Update: D&H checked their mags from as far back as 5 years and they all have it. They believe it is a gap from the die blocks which allowed some metal/material to squirm during the forming process and it is nothing to worry about. They sell these mags to the Israelis and never got a warranty claim/complaint.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:23:58 PM EDT
I have a USGI Okay mag that shows the same line/crease, FWIW.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Update: D&H checked their mags from as far back as 5 years and they all have it. They believe it is a gap from the die blocks which allowed some metal/material to squirm during the forming process and it is nothing to worry about. They sell these mags to the Israelis and never got a warranty claim/complaint.



Dude, I wish I had known you were going to talk to them. I'd have asked you to tell them about the issue I had with my mags. I couldn't find their contact info, as my google-fu is apparently weak.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:06:49 PM EDT
I hear that the creases do not show up until you bumpfire with Wolf...
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:50:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
All my NHMTGs look fine!





+1 that's all I have
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:02:11 AM EDT
I bought 4 NHTMG mags (NIW) and all 4 had "weak" mag springs that failed to lock the bolt open w/o any cartridges in the mag.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:07:42 PM EDT
The 20 new D&H mags I bought recently all look like that.

The 10 niw wrap Center mags made in 2002 I bought last week dont look like that.

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:09:53 PM EDT
What puzzles me is why they didn't bother to fix the crack in the die?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:13:11 PM EDT
AT 10 bucks each if they break I just buy new ones. Magazines for the m-16 family are disposable.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:54:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I bought 4 NHTMG mags (NIW) and all 4 had "weak" mag springs that failed to lock the bolt open w/o any cartridges in the mag.



I'm suprised that all 4 had bad springs, one of things I like so much about NHMTG mags is how good their springs are
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:02:33 AM EDT
I just went through all 6 of my D&H mags and all of them have the line even my 10rd Bushy mag has it. I have never noticed it before and I have shot the shit out of most of these mags and never had a single problem. I wouldn't worry about it, it doesn't seem to be anything more than a cosmetic problem
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:04:47 PM EDT
I guess I don't check my mags near as good as some of you guys. After seeing this thread I checked my D&H mags and they have the same seam.

It looks like it will develop into a weak spot as the mag wears, but that remains to be seen.

TD
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:37:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:
home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TAG.JPG



imsick of seeing that
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:42:46 AM EDT
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