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Posted: 1/25/2006 4:37:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:38:11 PM EDT by CubDriver]
I bought some mags at the last gun show They have Kesselrings LE/Tactical is stamped on the floor plate; they appear to be high quality/well constructed. Upon taking them to the range, I have had nothing but trouble from them. They consistently fail to feed properly (three to four rounds per 30rd. mag), and worse, I am having them jam in a weird way. They seem to jam up like they are too short (like the bullets are too long). I have no problem with this ammo in my other magazines, and I even broke out my calipers and checked the ammo I was putting it, nothing seems outside of normal with the ammo. Putting the rounds into the magazine, it will suddenly get really difficult, and as you begin to remove them, there is no pressure from the spring and you take them out until you get to the round that is stuck, pop it out, and it works fine.

I was wondering if any of you guys have had similar issues, or if there is something I could be doing wrong. I don’t want to blame them yet, I couldn’t find anything on their site, or on the web about similar issues.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:45:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:54:02 PM EDT by fla556guy]
Are the mag bodies bent? obstruction? How about the feed lips? if not, then the only thing i can think of is to replace the follower (ben 2 magpul type) and spring. Also before you go buying anything, take the follower and reduce its size and see if that helps with the binding issue (you may need a new follower after doing this). If this helps with the binding problem, then you know that the interior of the mag is off dimentionally and you should get a magpul Gen II follower and see if that works, and if not sand it down till it moves freely, and then TEST AT RANGE.

ETA: Does the floorplate bind up if you push it down with something like a pencil? Or is it a round that is causing the binding (I think it's the floorplate). Does it bind up on or about the same round each time, or is it a random thing? If it's random, then I'd try a Gen 2 floorplate (your's might be tilting.

So, for a synopsys of things, it could be one of 2 things.
1. If the binding is on random rounds, floorplate is probably to blame.
2. If it happens in the same spot each time, then it's probably the mag body being smaller than the floorplate because of manufacture defect or because of a dent/damage

Or what the poster said below. (never thought of that....)
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:50:31 PM EDT
Everything looks straight, I have even taken them apart. I don’t think it’s the follower as the bullet is correctly oriented, but it becomes stuck like the magazine is too narrow front to back. In my other mags, when the case is pushed all the way to the back, there is a small gap between the tip of the bullet and the magazine. In the Kesselrings mags, there is very little to no space, and occasionally it will become lodged in there requiring me to force it out. I would consider it a problem with one mag, but it does it on all of them almost like their tool is off.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:52:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:53:27 PM EDT by fla556guy]
Hmmm....yea, did you push the follower down with a pencil or something so that you can tell if it fits the mag? (not trying to be smart-asstical), just covering all the bases.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:57:08 PM EDT
Not a problem, there is a reason the first question out of my schools tech support hotline is “Is it turned on?”. What is obvious to some isn’t to others.

And yes, I did push them down and play with them, they move freely and seem to fit just fine.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:59:20 PM EDT
Then you might be on the right track with the round being longer than the mag. You are smarter than I my friend.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:20:31 PM EDT
Well if it was new ammunition, I would suspect that, but I have used this lot in other mags without a hitch. I also took the rounds that were doing it and measured them with digital calipers, and then measured a random selection and found no drastic differences. Do you know the tolerances on overall length of a round. I can see the length varying with bullet seating in the case, but as I don’t reload, I don’t have that info. I think I may go Google it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:51:49 PM EDT
Ok, so I ran out to Bi-Mart and picked up a box of cheap Remington UMC .223 ammo. It is visibly shorter than the 5.56 stuff that is getting stuck. I should disclaimer that I am not an ammo expert, and I don’t know if this is a common difference between .223 and 5.56. The 5.56 rounds are about 2.248 – 2.252 inches overall length, while the .223 I just bought has 2.120 being the shortest in the box, to 2.244 being the longest, with a good spread in between. I am greatly surprised by the spread in the Remington UMC, although my 5.56 is definitely longer.

Is this normal? What is the overall length of 5.56 supposed to be?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:03:24 PM EDT
Is the 5.56 ammo Olympic or HotShots?

TS
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:11:00 PM EDT
To be honest, I am not 100% sure. I usually pick up a can of 1000 at the shows. I know I have gotten Olympic in the past so its possible. I have heard some people trash Olympic before, but I have never had a problem with it (at least until now, if it is Olympic). I just find it odd that it only does it in these new mags.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:18:39 PM EDT
I haven't ever used Olympic, but have heard of the bad QC and specs. I've had a few rounds of HotShots that were too long. Did you measure the mag between the feed lips and compare with a mag that's not giving you problems? You also push the follower to the back of the mag and compare distance between the follower and front of the mag(s)... Hope this helps...

TS
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:59:16 PM EDT
What I ment was....the mag is shorter than it should be length-wise. The ammo is in spec, but the mag is not.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:11:40 PM EDT
That’s what I was thinking too, but before I went making wild acquisitions I wanted to make sure it wasn’t something I was doing/causing.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:28:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TigerStripe:
Did you measure the mag from front to rear between the feed lips and compare with a mag that's not giving you problems? Push the follower down and measure between the feed lips. You also push the follower to the back of the mag and compare distance between the follower and front of the mag(s)...

TS

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:52:33 PM EDT
I can’t get a good measurement front to back on the mag, but the feed lips are definitely the same. I also cant get a good reading on the front top of the mag vs. some reference point to compare, but the front edge appears to be higher as well, and seems to catch on bullets as they are pushed forward out of the mag. I am going to have to play with it some more this weekend. Depending what I hear back from the company, I may just take a dremel tool to the top lip of it, which I think would fix the feed issues. The mag being too narrow front to back, I am not so sure about, but it seems to work fine with five to ten rounds in the top, mark them as training mags and practice mag changes.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:18:27 PM EDT
Depending on how many you bought, I'd ask for new good mags.

TS
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:23:13 PM EDT
That was what I was going to do, I haven’t heard back yet, but I did just e-mail them yesterday. So I will give them another day and call.

Thanks for all the help you guys have provided as well.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:54:12 AM EDT
Many moons ago and in our former life we experienced just what you are describing. If you have calipers measure the mag in 3 places on each side, top, middle and bottom. The width should read .883 +or- .005. I think what you will find is what I call an hour glass shape. The mag will get smaller in the middle. If you are still not sure I can put you in touch with my engineer and he can help you through this.

Larry
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