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Posted: 9/5/2003 9:10:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 9:12:07 AM EDT by BuLLet]
I just got these from them today and to me these feed lips look a little funky, almost like they were repaired or something. I'm no expert with ar type mags and would like some opinions on what others think. I got 20 of these mags and they all look like this.


If you look at the left of the rear of the mag you see what appears to be a line, the metal is pushed in there and from the inside pic you can see some voids. Like it was over molded or something. I've looked at my other usgi mags and nothing I have appears this way.

And from the inside...

Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:34:49 AM EDT
i think there are lots of people in the lauer sale thread that would by them from you "as is" if you aren't comfortable with them.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:40:14 AM EDT
That does look different than all the other 30 round AR mags I've seen. But then I haven't seen them all.[:D]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:45:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By torstin: i think there are lots of people in the lauer sale thread that would by them from you "as is" if you aren't comfortable with them.
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I'm seeking information here, not a source to unload them to.. :) If there is a problem I'm sure Lauer would take care of it. I dunno if there is or not, hence the pics and questions.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:52:29 AM EDT
Looks like some type of manufactoring anomaly. Thanks for posting the pics. I hope that this clears up the "are they teflon?" debate. They ain't. Still a great price for a NIW USGI mag.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 10:12:45 AM EDT
I've never held a teflon mag before but, I can tell you this the finish on these are just like the new 10 rounders that come with a bushmaster today. It appears to be the exact same finish. If that's teflon I don't know in the least.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 10:34:04 AM EDT
Well , maybe I'm going blind, but I see a picture of an ordinary looking usgi mag. The finish looks like regular moly , but could be gray teflon ( Labelle made gray and black per the mag Faq.) As for flaws , all usgi mags are stamped, mass produced pieces of aluminum , they don't all look pretty. If you use a big enough magnifying glass on something it will look like craters on the moon[:D] I'm still waiting for my order from Lauer , will see what I get.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:49:17 PM EDT
Please educate me. Why do you say this clears up the debate on teflon or not "they ain't"? What could you tell from the pics that assured you of that. Please provide details so I can know more. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:58:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AWB317: Please educate me. Why do you say this clears up the debate on teflon or not "they ain't"? What could you tell from the pics that assured you of that. Please provide details so I can know more. Thanks
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The mag in the photo is hard coat adonized. Teflon is extremely slick, and does not have anywhere near the same finish. I don't have access to a digital camera or I could show you side by side photos of a Labelle USGI and a Labelle teflon. They are not even close in finish or texture.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:14:47 PM EDT
Ok, I've got a couple questions for you guys who have received these mags. I have not ever seen a LaBelle teflon mag, if I remember correctly. These mags came in sealed bags, right? They also had green followers, correct? Was there a date code on the bags as with the earlier regular bagged LaBelle mags? Has anyone ever bought a preban LaBelle in a bag with a green follower anywhere else? When did LaBelle quit making mags or are they still manufacturing? (must have missed any info on this in the mags faq). I didn't order any of these and they were a very good deal, but I had those above questions in my head.[:)]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:47:02 PM EDT
Well I looked at mine again tonite, and without opening a wrapper I would say these are teflon mags. I have many of the origional teflon's both in grey and black, and with various baseplate markings and the finish looks the same. My new mags do not have a date on the wrapper, or on the mag that I can see. I may be wrong, but I believe these are true labelle teflon coated mags. Somebody please correct me if you can prove different. Mark
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 6:16:47 PM EDT
PLEASE stop the debate, worry and any other concern on these mages. These mags which resently had been avaible from only three different persons are as follows. TRUE teflon type!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT normal anodized found on basic USGI. The best mag ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very hard gray high sheen hard as nails!!!!!!!! Normal USGI have a very no frills, easy scratch, anodized milspec coating. Labelle teflon type are top of the line!!!!!!!!!!! the mags you got are 100% true labelle teflon type. In the past I have dealt with the Labelle type sold by bushmaster many years ago. i have a few of these. Except that the orginal batch had no Labella name on base plate, as far as I know were not wraped in plastic and had black followers. This new rare supply, which you talk of are the real deal PERIOD! i have in my hand right now, one bushmaster (labelle contract 1993 no name base plate, black follower), i have next to it the new batch with labelle name base plate and green follower. they are the same mags except for one big thing. THIS GREEN FOLLOWER BATCH ARE BETTER, NICER AND THE FIND OF THE DECADE!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 7:32:21 PM EDT
[b]Okay - got my mags this pm- quick pics below- These were worth $20 each - I'm REAL HAPPY.[:D] Maybe teflon - maybe not. Troy - would you care to comment?[/b] [img]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/LauerBag2.jpg[/img] [img]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/LaBelle%20Feed.jpg[/img] [img]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/LabelleFP2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 7:58:13 PM EDT
I find it strange. Dont you people love armags as much as i do? dont you collect mags from different USGI makers as a hobby? If you compare these mags to mags from cooper, sanchez adventure line ect. you will see what sets them apart. slick, beautiful mags these labelle teflon type are. feed like a dream. drop free with no effort. tonight, i inserted 4 different mags into my bushy. the labelle teflon was the only one that dropped free under its own weight when i hit the mag button. sure other usgi mags drop free, but these labelle do it mag for mag.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 8:00:33 PM EDT
Bud, I asked for clarification earlier to your "they ain't" comment. Your answer did not convince me. The pics show a very smooth finish with no scratching or roughness evident on all Moly mags. I received some of these mags. When compared to my LaBelle molys (side by side) there is NO QUESTION that these mags Lauer was selling ARE TEFLON. They look nothing like regular USGI finish, and neither do the pics posted in this thread. Since you could not give any contradictory hard evidence to the contray, give it a rest - these ARE teflon in a grey color. I also have the black teflons Labelle made for Bushy, DPMS, and others. Same basic finish - different color. I wish I had bought several dozens!!!
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 4:19:12 AM EDT
Got mine. Love them. Want more. Must have more.... Seriously, for $20 these are great. This time last year a crappy thermold or orlite would sell for that much and lots of people bought them without blinking. I still see Colt baseplate mags for $30-40 each. These Labelles may not be flawless, but the ones I tested at the range worked perfectly. Thanks,Lauer Weaponry!
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 5:16:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2003 5:19:36 PM EDT by ComputerGuy]
Interesting that these are teflon coated mags. Generally there isn't much of a question whether they are teflon coated or not. Usually it is obvious if they are. Second of all, wasn't there a thread in this forum a couple weeks back arguing that teflon coating is not mil-spec and has never been. Then why would be come in military wrappers? Hmmm.... Everyone seems to question the authenticity of RGun's tefloned 30rnders which many believe to be refinished. No one is questioning a sudden 2000 found? Especially with minty condition wrappers that are at least nine years old? I have also been under the impression that the teflon 30s did not come with green followers (I might be wrong there). I do also believe that the majority of Labelle teflons had a different (ie DPMS/Bushmaster) or blank floor plates. I may absolutely be entirely wrong here, but I might venture to guess that these are USGI 30s (possibly new?) that have been refinished in teflon then put back into their wrappers and re-sealed. That would explain the Labelle floor plates and possibly the green followers. Would account for the low price, too. There are places that will refinish mags for $0.50 each in quantity. Anybody care to look up the NSN #? It's: DAAA39-87-C-0015 Hmmmm........
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 5:22:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2003 5:24:40 PM EDT by gus]
Originally Posted By Bud:
Originally Posted By AWB317: Please educate me. Why do you say this clears up the debate on teflon or not "they ain't"? What could you tell from the pics that assured you of that. Please provide details so I can know more. Thanks
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The mag in the photo is hard coat adonized. Teflon is extremely slick, and does not have anywhere near the same finish. I don't have access to a digital camera or I could show you side by side photos of a Labelle USGI and a Labelle teflon. They are not even close in finish or texture.
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I hate to break it to you, Bud, but I bought some of Lauer's mags and they are IN FACT Teflon. I know the difference. You are simply wrong.
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 5:50:22 PM EDT
Well I will put in my .02 cents here for lack of anything better to do tonite. I believe these mags are the real deal. I have other labell teflon mags in the NSN wrappers. I know teflon was not milspec, but it seems the wrappers were still used on many of the teflon mags. I think they were used towards the ban date to use up the stock of wrappers on hand. I have labells that say labell on the wrappers and others that have a NSN # without any manufacture name. Some of the baseplates are marked, Labelle, bushmaster, DPMS, Tapco and blank. It's not that rare to have wrappers that are mint and 10 plus years old, I have alot that are. The green followers are a new one for me, however we all know they were available before the ban as Sanchez used them in their USGI mags, so it is likely the very last teflons could have also used them. I wish someone who worked at labelle could comment on the new find of mags and clear up some of our questions. I stand by my comment that these are the real teflons and were sold at a great price. I am not connected to John at Lauer except to say I am a satisfied customer. I should have bought more as I am sure alot of you guy's are thinking the same thing. Everyone have a great nite! Mark
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 6:47:47 PM EDT
Computerguy, are you a unhappy person in general? NSN is correct. you listed the contract # not the NSN. Bags are unaltered. Impossible, yes I say IMPOSSIBLE to have been opened and resealed. I have many of this batch. Plastic bags can NOT be opened without extreamly messy signs of doing so. OR bags must be cut below orginal seal and then resealed leaving far less usable plastic area(length) for the sealing process. nither is the case. This has been the best deal on mags that anyone could dream of. super price super high quality product anyone seeking high quality mags that didnt get any of these mags, is missing the boat. Even if the price was $30 each, they are that good. I would pick this mag over any colt new 30rnd mag.
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 6:53:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xm15e2s: Bags are unaltered. Impossible, yes I say IMPOSSIBLE to have been opened and resealed. I have many of this batch. Plastic bags can NOT be opened without extreamly messy signs of doing so. OR bags must be cut below orginal seal and then resealed leaving far less usable plastic area(length) for the sealing process. nither is the case. This has been the best deal on mags that anyone could dream of. super price super high quality product anyone seeking high quality mags that didnt get any of these mags, is missing the boat. Even if the price was $30 each, they are that good. I would pick this mag over any colt new 30rnd mag.
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I agree with everything above.
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 9:13:15 PM EDT
Not an unhappy person at all. Just pointing out some things I happen to have noticed. It does seem strange that these teflon mags are in military contract wrappers. I'm not knocking on Lauer or anyone else, if these are in fact new teflon labelle magazines, $20.00 each is a fantasic deal and I wish I would have bought some. Even if they were just the regular Permasilk type finish, $20.00 each is still a good deal.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:00:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ComputerGuy: Not an unhappy person at all. Just pointing out some things I happen to have noticed. It does seem strange that these teflon mags are in military contract wrappers. I'm not knocking on Lauer or anyone else, if these are in fact new teflon labelle magazines, $20.00 each is a fantasic deal and I wish I would have bought some. Even if they were just the regular Permasilk type finish, $20.00 each is still a good deal.
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While I cannot tell from the pics if this is indeed a teflon coated mag, if it is then it isn't mil-spec and that bag means nothing. As shown before, even with your 20 rounders you posted, it is not the least bit uncommon for mag manufacturers and dealers to repack mags in the wrong bags to make them look better. BTW, that contract number on that bag is a 1987 contract, so if anyone is claiming it is a USGI contract that is an even newer pile of BS, first it was 94-96, then 98, now 1987, when these elusive mags were supposedly sold to the government. The story gets crazier and crazier. Here we have magazine with a green follower in a 1987 contract dated bag. From troys FAQ: [red]The Green Followers (GFs) were first seen in Sanchez magazines in 1988, and became standard issue for all M16 magazines in 1992[/red] So are we now to also believe that Labelle started using the GF a year before sanchez developed it? I am starting to wonder just how many thousands of unused Lanelle contract wrappers were sold at the bancruptcy auction and how many places we may find them. The 1987 green follower teflon Labelle, thats a good one.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:48:03 AM EDT
[b]Boy you guys are a TOUGH CROWD! [:D] IMHO- The mags in question are NEW. They cost only $20. They look and function perfectly. I bought them to USE - not to look at. I wish I could have bought a Hundred.[:D][/b]
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:02:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: BTW, that contract number on that bag is a 1987 contract, so if anyone is claiming it is a USGI contract that is an even newer pile of BS, first it was 94-96, then 98, now 1987, when these elusive mags were supposedly sold to the government. The story gets crazier and crazier. Here we have magazine with a green follower in a 1987 contract dated bag. From troys FAQ: [red]The Green Followers (GFs) were first seen in Sanchez magazines in 1988, and became standard issue for all M16 magazines in 1992[/red] So are we now to also believe that Labelle started using the GF a year before sanchez developed it?
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Is it possible that the contract lasted for more years than 1987? I could care less about the bags. I've looked mine over carefully and they appear to be new, not refinished, Teflon coated, Labelle mags, and yes they do have green followers. For 20 bux a pop, I'm glad I got some! I didn't buy them to look at.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 1:22:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2003 1:24:07 PM EDT by mikeinkc]
Is it possible that the contract lasted for more years than 1987? I could care less about the bags. I've looked mine over carefully and they appear to be new, not refinished, Teflon coated, Labelle mags, and yes they do have green followers. For 20 bux a pop, I'm glad I got some! I didn't buy them to look at.
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There ya go!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 5:49:43 PM EDT
He Mike, I live in Olathe do you live close?
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 5:51:08 PM EDT
contract number means nothing unless you understand it. PEOPLE stop looking so deep into this. I have in my hand right now a NIW wrap SANCHEZ GREEN FOLLOWER sealed bag preban mag with a contract number of DAAA09-85-C-1382 with a printed date code on the bag last line of 6/89. thats right a 1989 made bag under a 85 contract. give it up people. enjoy, enjoy, enjoy these are great mags.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 6:10:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xm15e2s: contract number means nothing unless you understand it. PEOPLE stop looking so deep into this. I have in my hand right now a NIW wrap SANCHEZ GREEN FOLLOWER sealed bag preban mag with a contract number of DAAA09-85-C-1382 with a printed date code on the bag last line of 6/89. thats right a 1989 made bag under a 85 contract. give it up people. enjoy, enjoy, enjoy these are great mags.
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Maybe you've just hit on it - those that didn't get any seem to be the ones questioning them. I'll be trying a few of mine out tomorrow, and predict complete enjoyment!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 3:44:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xm15e2s: contract number means nothing unless you understand it. PEOPLE stop looking so deep into this. I have in my hand right now a NIW wrap SANCHEZ GREEN FOLLOWER sealed bag preban mag with a contract number of DAAA09-85-C-1382 with a printed date code on the bag last line of 6/89. thats right a 1989 made bag under a 85 contract. give it up people. enjoy, enjoy, enjoy these are great mags.
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Mind posting a pic of that mag and bag? Seriuosly, I could use the info. I find it unusual for a contract to last that long, but anythings possible. Regardless, the teflon Labelles are obviuosly not proper for an issue bag anyway, so the bag on these proves little compared to the Sanchez bag.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:23:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 5:25:40 AM EDT by gus]
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Regardless, the teflon Labelles are obviuosly not proper for an issue bag anyway, so the bag on these proves little compared to the Sanchez bag.
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Are you absolutely certain of that? Also, is it possible that Labelle thought they were going to be accepted and packaged them that way, only to be denied? I'm just kind of amazed at the "it can't possibly be" attitude, when in all my years I've been proven wrong on that many times where mags and AR's are concerned. Not saying you're wrong, just not sure you're right... Edite for spelling - it's Monday afterall!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:35:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gus:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Regardless, the teflon Labelles are obviuosly not proper for an issue bag anyway, so the bag on these proves little compared to the Sanchez bag.
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Are you absolutely certain of that? Also, is it possible that Labelle thought they were going to be accepted and packaged them that way, only to be denied? I'm just kind of amazed at the "it can't possibly be" attitude, when in all my years I've been proven wrong on that many times where mags and AR's are concerned. Not saying you're wrong, just not sure you're right... Edite for spelling - it's Monday afterall!
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I could be wrong, but am sure enough to stand by my statement. I have looked long and hard for any evidince of any type of mil-spec, militray contract, or military purchase of teflon finished mags, and can find absolutley no evidince past the claims of the dealers selling them, and thier stories vary wildly, but always seem to back up just what they are selling. If Labelle made these thinking these would be accepted, they would be insane. They knew the spec when the contract was issued, and the spec did not change. Why on earth would they think that the military woudl accept out of spec goods? It woudl be like AM general changing the paint color on the HMMWV and figuring Uncle Sam would take them anyway. Of course, cooper made soem with 3 spot welds and put them into military bags, but they didn't meet the spec. A military looking bag proves nothing! I am sure these are great mags, and wouldn't mind having some myslef, but military spec or military issue they definitly are not.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:14:58 AM EDT
Has anyone taken into account that there are units in service who do not follow normal procurement channels? Not saying this happened in this case, but not saying it couldn't have either.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:37:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wjshark: Has anyone taken into account that there are units in service who do not follow normal procurement channels? Not saying this happened in this case, but not saying it couldn't have either.
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Yup, but even so, because a unit goes out and buys something on an IMPACT card does not make it mil-spec. I know of one unit that was short on mags right before 9-11 and the supply SGT., not knowing any better, order a bunch of USA or some other brand mags from a mail order house on government credit card because they were advertised as mil-spec.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 2:44:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 8:56:50 AM EDT by Lauer_CustomWeaponry]
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 2:48:55 PM EDT
LOL! All I can say is..... screw me over some more!! Uh...Er.. that didn't come out right! If you get any more of these, let me know! By far the best USA conversion mags out there!![:D]
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 2:56:25 PM EDT
I'll take some more too! LOL Mark
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 3:40:12 PM EDT
John - Well it is about time you come clean on these mags. You knew you couldn't pull the wool over our eyes. These mags are absolutely the worst re-wrapped, new floor plate, contract (sealed)bag USA mags, for 20.00 I have ever seen. You should be ashamed of yourself for selling these. I suggest you stop selling them now on this board because I NEED MORE!!!!! THESE ARE THE BEST FREEKIN MAGS I HAVE EVER SEEN AND THE PRICE IS KILLER. Please contact me and I will take some of the returns you get back (since you have a bunch of un-happy campers)off your hands I feel really guilty for doing this but OH WELL.... Best Regards and Thanks for the AWESOME MAGS!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:39:19 PM EDT
These mags are now on AMMOMAN'S website for alot more money. Perhaps all you nay-sayers can go badger Eric about the crappy mag's he's selling. John, if/when you get more, put me on the list for 20 of these ABSOLUTLY CRAPPY MAGS THAT NO-ONE (besides me) SHOULD BUY!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lauer_CustomWeaponry: I am sorry to all of you satisfied customer, these are actually USA mags that we appoxied in the holes at the bottoms. We also had a local Blacksmith forge us new base plates and hammer the feed lips back into shape thus leaving the marks you seen on the picture. But that was not the real trouble, the trouble was when I resealed all of the bags that I had to collect so I could seal up the scam. I have felt just terrible since I sold all of these mags out to you guys. John [email]john@lauerweaponry.com[/email] [url]http://www.nyguns.org/bullet/mags/feedlips.jpg[/url]
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perhaps now everyone will be satisfied now that the conspiracy has been uncovered.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:15:20 AM EDT
Well, here we go again, sort of. When I ask for proof or evidince regarding teflon mags and thier use or purchase by the military, yet another dealer squirms. Nice diversion, but your response has been the same as any other dealer I have asked or questioned on the subget, no answer or proof. Like I said, I have no doubt these are excellent mags, at a great price, but if they are teflon finished then they are simply not mil-spec or military issue, and the bags are not really proper for them. I don't know why everyone takes this as an attack. If anyone has any evidince that I am wrong, I would love to see it, but after almost a year of asking all I have been shown is some mags in improper bags and a bunch of stories that don't add up. I started looking for the military issue mags myself because I happen to like the teflon finish, and wanted to get some through the supply system for my unit. It was once I started hunting both within the system and outside that I found out that the "teflon coated mil-spec or military issue" mag appeared more and more to be an invention of those in the mag business to sell more mags. I would still love to be proven wrong, and welcome any evidince of that. Lauer, I am kind of dissapointed that you resorted to the childish response you gave, even a "I don't know, I got these mags like this and they are great mags so I don't care" response would have provided more info than your smart ass remarks. I am seriously interested in tracking down the mysterious "military issue" teflon mags, and so I would appreciate any real info on these. I do find it odd that the contract date on these is well before any first sightings of teflon mags, a year before Sanchez invents the green follower, and several years before anyone else ever used a green follower in thier mags. But hey, if they are good mags then they are good mags. xm15e2s, since your IM stated you cannot take a picture of that mag you claim to have, how about just posting the exact text of the label here. No need to keep it in IM's, this kind of info sharing is what make sthis place great. I will try to track down that contract and see why it would have lasted so long.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:21:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:55:01 AM EDT
John would you please check on my order invoice #082803124441 ordered on 08/28/03 at 12:44:41
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:01:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:06:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:19:49 AM EDT
Thanks alot for checking on that for me. Jeff
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 2:05:33 PM EDT
Hey John, great mags! Any chance Lauer will get any more of the same???? :)
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 3:04:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:34:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lauer_CustomWeaponry: I am sorry to all of you satisfied customers, these are actually USA mags that we appoxied in the holes at the bottoms. We also had a local Blacksmith forge us new base plates and hammer the feed lips back into shape thus leaving the marks you seen on the picture. But that was not the real trouble, that was when I resealed all of the bags that I had to collect so I could seal up the scam. I have felt just terrible since I sold all of these mags out to you guys. John
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So John you think my questions are some sort of joke? I suppose that's all one can make out of your response. My concerns were 100% valid, and nothing more then a simple question, in no way or form was it a slam on you. Too bad you took it that way. I want to thank you for taking the time to respond here. Oh, by the way next time I place an order for $400.00 dollars worth of your stuff, I'll send you monopoly money instead to fit in with your attitude.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:14:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:22:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 5:24:36 AM EDT by BuLLet]
I think it would have been easier for you to just answer the questions I asked. And not make a joke of it in the first place. I asked only because I've never seen marks like that on usgi mags, no big deal really. Edited to add: Who said I felt I was taken? Where do you get that from?
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