[url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html
[/url]
Refer to section W.


And then, refer to:

[url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/923.html
[/url]
Section I

I wasn't exactly right about how this reads, (it had been a while since I read it) but it refers to the requirement for a SERIAL NUMBER, and NOT a DATE CODE.

The parallel authority, the Code of Federal Regulations, holds other, very specific relevant information:

[url]http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/aprqtr/27cfr178.92.htm
[/url]

It is here that the specifics of the LEO marking are mentioned.



CJ

OK, the ATF guy called back and said he was wrong about the 1995 deal and apologized.

He said I had two options which were:

1. destory the magazines

2. donate them to a LEO agency and show proof with a receipt

I told them that I've already got them disaseembled and stored as replacement parts. And told them I should be within the law.

He replied he'll look into it, and then hung up. Called about 45 minutes later and said as long as I have all parts for the magazines, regardless of their state of presence I've still gotta post ban mag. He said I could cut the springs in half,  but I could have no other AR mag springs around.

I told him that I would destory the springs. He said OK, and mentioned that they'll be sending an agent out to check up on it.

Well it's a god damn shame those magazines were sitting in the corner of my garage and got stolen when I left it open for cat.


BTW, the guy who ripped me's ebay name is: [email protected]

He lives in Texas. Claimed to be a dealer but ATF said he isn't. I emailed him through ebay and bought the mags as prebans outside of Ebay. So I can't get back through them...

Well.  Having seen other tales involving ComputerGuy's luck, this could get interesting [:)]

The ATF guy was wrong? Imagine that.

Put some chicken wire over your bedroom windows to keep out the flashbangs and tear gas. I hope you don't have a dog.

Hummmm, I can't remember if I ever bought mags from CG, I need to check on that and maybe get some chicken wire.

Title 18 922

(w)

(1)

Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

(2)

Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

(3)

This subsection shall not apply to -

(A)

the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);

(B)

the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;

(C)

the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity ammunition feeding device transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or

(D)

the manufacture, transfer, or possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.

(4)

If a person charged with violating paragraph (1) asserts that paragraph (1) does not apply to such person because of paragraph (2) or (3), the Government shall have the burden of proof to show that such paragraph (1) applies to such person. The lack of a serial number as described in section 923(i) of this title shall be a presumption that the large capacity ammunition feeding device is not subject to the prohibition of possession in paragraph (1).

Title 18 923
(i)

Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers shall identify by means of a serial number engraved or cast on the receiver or frame of the weapon, in such manner as the Secretary shall by regulations prescribe, each firearm imported or manufactured by such importer or manufacturer. The serial number of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured. A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe.

By most people I mean outside the ATF. You go to a gun range with mags that are not "LEO/GOVT/EXPORT" marked and who is going to hassle you? 99% of the time folks will assume "pre-ban". (remember outside BATFE)

CRC

calling a federal agency who has usurped the enumerated rights of the constitution and bill o frights is [b]never[/b] a good thing!



the BATFE are tax agents despite their recent shift to the justice dept. dont be fooled. anyone who thinks that the right to decide what is unlawful and punish accordingly lies witht he ATF has not read our constitution.



this is retarded on so many levels.
1.if the ATF are on the side of any citizen who has a desire to obey the law, why will they not allow machineguns to be registered and taxes be paid on items that are unregistered and therefore illegal.  these items were at one time legal and their owners law abiding citizens until after GCA 1968. their aim is clearly outside "siding" with the law abiding citizen as those of us who abide by the law otherwise could easily be "not-law abiding" by the simple judgement of a field agent for the ATF who decides that someone like ComputerGuy was a criminal regardless of his co called intent.  they bandy about terms such as "conspiracy to commit" which is as you say in a quite differnt manner, intent.



the written letter of the law also says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and you see how far that gets you with these "brothers in arms" ha haaaa.



why would you ever go to trial only to rish ten years in a federal penitentary for an AWB violation? hell no I wouldn't... i'd let them seize my car house and assets and plea out to stay out of jail.  that is how the ATF works buddy.  it sickens me that you would defend them and their actions as if they have a right to protect us from ourselves. pure and utter bullshit is what it is.

[:O]

I agree!!!

normally I would say F-off to the ATF but the guy who screwed computerguy earned the grief

I'm sorry, could you direct me to the law you are talking about? The only thing I am aware of is the second amendment, which all courts but one have said doesn't mean that.

That sucks ComputerGuy.

I hope everything turns out ok.

By the way. I got my springs and followers. My magazines feel like new. Sweet!

What was it you were thinking? "I just got screwed out of 40 mags, now lets see how much more screwed I can get..." [;D]

Ok I'm new in here and confused. Can someone tell me if the 30 rounders with only a sticker saying England one the side, no other stamping or dates is legal?    Thx.

No worries, they are legal to own.

notice my tongue in cheek reference to it?

anyway us vs. miller decision states that we do have a second ammendment right t keep and bear [b]military[/b] arms.  that said, the BOR merely enumerates our God given RKBA. more than one court agrees with me, so does the USAG, the problem is no one wants to tell the BATFE

Thank's gunnut!

Hot Damn!  Someone finally figured it out.  The right to keep and bear arms, along with the right to defend oneself and the right to be free from oppressive government does not come from a piece of paper.  The Bill of Rights is an insightful document, but only echoes and codifies the obvious intangible truths that were already in existence, and will continue to exist, whether or not there is a "Bill of Rights".

[(:|)]

Exactly so.  Rights are not GRANTED by ANY force, act, or agency.   But you can lose your rights by failing to defend them and exercise them.

CJ

Cody, you just keep digging . . .

Dude, check it out:

1) They are postbans, and you can argue dates and codes until the cell door slams but it is what it is.

2) Despite your intent being not criminal or malicious (proven by your contacting the authorities), your continued posession is illegal.  

3) Admittedly, your Acronym Agency contact is not the most versed in the regulations, but he gave you two options:  Destroy or Donate.

4) Your "They got stole, honest!" ploy will be about as believeable as the "I have to pee bad, officer!" ploy when caught speeding.

5) You have one other option -- donate them to a LEO friend with receipt, someone that can hold them for a little over a year, then see what happens next Sept.  Barring that, get someone to videotape closeups of the markings, then pan back showing you cutting the bodies on an abrasive disc chop saw, with date and time showing.  Provide verbal commentary on the tape as documentation -- I bought these from so-and-so in Texas . . . Agent Such-and-such instructed me to do this in a telecon on . . . Then count them off as you cut them.

Suck it up and take your lumps.   The "dealer" in TX didn't hold a .45 to your head; you sought him out.  

You are a businessman.   You are experienced in the merchandise.  Sometimes you will get burned by suppliers, customers, weather, competitors, whatever. Use this incident to improve your business practices; improve your due dilligence efforts.  Require your suppliers to communicate to you via writing or photos the markings on mags that you buy.  

"They got stole, honest!"  Geez Louise, Cody.  Great way to get an up close and personal look at the interior of a Crown Victoria from the back seat.  Use some common sense.

Noah

Dont cut the springs. Melt the followers - they are cheaper.  Plus melted plastic probably will look better to an idiot that doesnt know the laws hes enforcing anyway!

Sad thing is you are probably now "the bad guy" and the guy that set you up to get passed around club fed wont get shit done to him.

Report him to ebay - they are antigun anyway so Im sure theyll screw with him.

What he said

[BS]

Read the rest of the thread.

Actually a nice LEO from this board was kind enough to purchase them from me.

Thanks Ken!

Decent!
Glad to see some of us watch out for one another. As for the flack you got from others it is clearly undeserved. Those who intentionally ripoff others (that's called stealing, folks, and if there's one thing I detest it is a thief) deserve to be screwed.

Hey, computerguy, you never did say what happened with your other experience with the BATFE....

this is a area you are a expert in mr jarhead.

So mommy let you come out to play again?

You got exactly what you asked for. I have never stolen from anyone, nor am I a convicted felon. Can you say the same?

Answer is obvious to anyone who knows the story.
Later, chump.

PS: Someone told me you claim to be an ex-Marine. Is that true? I want to check it out for myself.

Hey ComputerGuy,
You did the right thing. The law is the law no matter how stupid it is. We have a responsiblity to each other to obey the law, and provide support for it. But I can understand the anger people feel about the stupid laws we are subjected to. I went to a local firearms dealer the other day to look for some ar mags. I found some good deals on some USGI Sanchez mags. There was one with a date stamped on the side. It was not a Sanchez. It was made in KS or something. Anyway, I thought about your post here, and decided to ask the guy behind the counter about the date stamped on the mag. He Said "There is nothing to worry about. You won't get in trouble for it." I said "Well, I just get these Sanchez mags." Thanks for the headsup about the stupid date thing on mags.
John

I located two of the ColtGaurds (lost their info because computer crashed awhile back), but they wouldnt sell them. I even offered $700.00 for one of them, plus two AR lowers.

Guy shot me down without blinking an eye.

More like Korea.

[torch]

ahh RGUNS, the 'roid of the magazine sales industry (even though you slather on the Prep-H he'll be sure to come back in the middle of a good shitfest)

thanks for the unslicited left field slam you self-serving turd burglar.

Computer Guy,

If ATF is coming to visit, please insure that you have no business records available.  Some of us have bought from you and would not appreciate the possible disclosure.  No offense intended with this comment, because we have had some great business transactions, but if you were naive enough to call Batf, you may be naive enough to say, "yeah, I've got my records right here, wanna look?".  

I believe that most ATF agents are not "out to get us"; I know many of them; they are after the bad guys, not a few gun queers with no intent to violate.  But realize that when they see a violation that has been brought to their attention, they are duty bound to pursue.  They don't know, you may be a plant from a supervisor to see how they react to a simple problem.  Agents have to feed their families too, and will not risk their careers over your problems.

You should have known the answer to this ; you are very sharp!.

As as aside, I am totally flabbergasted by the various "opinions" of people on this thread.  It is in "black and white" - look it up!    Damn!  Why in the world would people let these urban myths cause such distress.  The answer is written and common sense should abound.  An example, one guy says that machine guns without Class 3 registration were legal before the GCA of 68.  Wrong!  1934 was when the NFA began registration and taxing of Class 3. 1986 began the law that no machingeguns manufactured after that were civilian legal.  ( by the way, the $200 tax in 1934 is still $200 - what a deal!)


I love this site and all the brotherhood and information shared, but I get so frustrated with the silly shit and people not doing research on their own and verifying data.  Not using common sense is another problem. Because people are not gonna do research themselves, and rely on others advice, many people are gonna get hurt.  You can buy Thermolds or USGI in excellent shape for $20 a pop - that's a great deal.  No need to get caught up in the LEO fog  to begin with.

CG,  Sorry for your monetary loss, but keep us all SAFE.  Any word on the GF (actually Orange Follower) deal for Thermolds?

Oh yeah, one more thing, about 90% of the questions posed in this thread could have been answered by reading Troy's Mag Faq.  Everybody joining this site ought to be made to read it as a prerequiste...

Thanks Troy!

I would never release my business records unless they had a warrent. There is no reason for them to need them since I do not do anything illegal. In fact the main reason I even keep them is incase someone has a problem with their order.

Thanks,

Cody @ Magazine Specialties

Does anyone else here see the irony in [b][size=3]RGUNS[/size=3][/b] posting to a thread about a
[b][size=3]lying, stealing, thieving, no-good-felon mag dealer?[/size=3][/b]

[devil]


Edited to add:
Before the flame-fest starts, I'm referring to the eBay dealer, not Cody. [:D]

I found this thread in a search on RGUNS. I guess I found the answer I was looking for. Jason

some of the other threads are a riot. That is if you have time and there is nothing good on TV!

Had to chime in.  Though I agree with what you're saying.  This isn't the "written letter of the law" it's the constitution.  Though similar, it's not the same.

so what is the constitution? is it not a legal document that proscribes the activity of the government agreed upon by congress?

Anyone who doesn't understand that the Constitution
IS the highest law of the land needs to go to Remedial Civics 101,  NOW!

The Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, is devoted exclusively to the resolution of legal cases that contain issues pertaining to the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and all following amendments.    If the Constitution wasn't "law" as such,  how would you explain the Supreme Court's function otherwise?

CJ