Good Ammunition to purchase in bulk for defense and SHTF? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Good Ammunition to purchase in bulk for defense and SHTF? (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 9/11/2018 3:23:42 PM EDT

[#1]

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I think the SG Ammo Barnul makes the most sense as "SHTF" ammo, so long as your gun fires steel case.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-rounds-223-rem-556x45-steel-case-barnaul-mil-spec-62-grain-soft-point-a-0

[/i]

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+1

Lacquered cases, sealed necks and primers means it'll store forever. Decent velocity and will perform much like a Speer Gold Dot, at plinking ammo prices! what's not to like?

I just bought 500 rounds and will buy 1000 more next month.

Posted: 9/11/2018 3:29:38 PM EDT

[#2]

M855A1 is where it's at.

A dealer just put several thousand up on gunbroker for $1 each. They didn't last long.

Attached File

Posted: 9/11/2018 6:00:23 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
This is some very nice M193 to stock. Very accurate and clean.
SGammo has it. May not be the cheapest but some of the beat surplus I've shot.

https://1696252748.rsc.cdn77.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/SB%20ammo%20pics%20004_0.JPG

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I agree with the above post. You'll never find a a box of mil surp M193 cleaner than this stuff. PLUS it shoots as good as it looks.
Next in line, my choice would be IMI M193. If you refer back to Molon's M193 comparisons, IMI came out the winner both in accuracy and consistency.
So many choices and right now the prices are great.... stack it deep!

Posted: 9/12/2018 12:10:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

+1

Lacquered cases, sealed necks and primers means it'll store forever. Decent velocity and will perform much like a Speer Gold Dot, at plinking ammo prices! what's not to like?

I just bought 500 rounds and will buy 1000 more next month.

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It sounds good but could the laquer gum up the chamber, potentially causing problems?

Posted: 9/12/2018 8:22:50 PM EDT

[#5]

Ive tried a bunch of 5.56 and m193 variants. For my guns the best are:
Magtech 62gr
MEN 56gr "m193"
IMI 55gr M193

In that order.

Id stack any of them as deep as possible.

Posted: 9/13/2018 9:20:31 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ive tried a bunch of m193 variants and for my guns the best are:
Magtech 62gr "m193"
MEN 56gr "m193"
IMI 55gr M193

In that order.

Id stack any of them as deep as possible.

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I'm not familiar with MEN, but I certainly don't see Magtech labeling a 62gr bullet as M193.

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:02:01 AM EDT

[#7]

Magtech/CBC does have a 55gr M193 load. They have a separate 62gr (non-M855/SS109) 5.56 round.

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:08:26 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:

I'm not familiar with MEN, but I certainly don't see Magtech labeling a 62gr bullet as M193.

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Is it better now?

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:13:22 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

Is it better now?

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Yep

Posted: 9/13/2018 5:08:37 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
It sounds good but could the laquer gum up the chamber, potentially causing problems?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

+1

Lacquered cases, sealed necks and primers means it'll store forever. Decent velocity and will perform much like a Speer Gold Dot, at plinking ammo prices! what's not to like?

I just bought 500 rounds and will buy 1000 more next month.

It sounds good but could the laquer gum up the chamber, potentially causing problems?

ZERO chances of it "gum"ing up the chamber! That is an internet myth that can't die soon enough. I have shot thousands of rounds of lacquered case ammo, including mag dumps interspersed with "plinking" and I have never had an ammo related problem with Russian lacquered cased ammo.

The only advice I can give someone who is thinking about shooting Russian steel cased ammo is this: If your rifle won't shoot steel cased ammo, you need to get a different rifle!

But back to the OP's original topc; the ammo I've referred to above is excellent SHTF ammo at a great price! I would choose this stuff over M855 or M193 FMJ, every day and twice on Sunday.

Stack this stuff DEEP!

Posted: 9/13/2018 5:18:06 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:

ZERO chances of it "gum"ing up the chamber! That is an internet myth that can't die soon enough.

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This ^^^

Posted: 9/13/2018 7:26:56 PM EDT

[#12]

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This ^^^

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Does this MEN 556 have a NATO stamp on the case?

Posted: 9/13/2018 8:20:09 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

ZERO chances of it "gum"ing up the chamber! That is an internet myth that can't die soon enough. I have shot thousands of rounds of lacquered case ammo, including mag dumps interspersed with "plinking" and I have never had an ammo related problem with Russian lacquered cased ammo.

The only advice I can give someone who is thinking about shooting Russian steel cased ammo is this: If your rifle won't shoot steel cased ammo, you need to get a different rifle!

But back to the OP's original topc; the ammo I've referred to above is excellent SHTF ammo at a great price! I would choose this stuff over M855 or M193 FMJ, every day and twice on Sunday.

Stack this stuff DEEP!

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This is good to know. Thanks.

Perhaps I'll try some.

Posted: 9/13/2018 8:48:23 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:

Does this MEN 556 have a NATO stamp on the case?

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I've not bought any MEN,so cannot confirm/deny. My post was in regards to lacquered casings gumming up chambers. Sorry

Eta: SG ammo page shows : 5,56 X 45 MEN 15 (I assume that the 15 is production year, maybe incorrect??).

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:14:48 PM EDT

[#15]

This is the ammo I was referring to, I love this stuff:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-223-rem-556x45-steel-case-barnaul-mil-spec-62-grain-soft-point

While not exactly the same as the ammo I'm referring to, the video below shows the potential of good, Russian soft-point ammo. With performance similar to the video below, I don't know why peeps would prefer M855 or M193 over a SP bullet; but hey to each there own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etTvFZlR-0c

Now, keep in mind, this is NOT my primary, home-defense ammo. I use Speer 75 gr Gold Dot for that chore; but for SHTF, Coronal Mass Ejection, Electro-magnetic pulse, Zombie-Apocolypse, Space Invasion, Jesus returns, End-of-Times ammo, I'm stacking the Russian stuff as deep as my meager budget allows.

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:28:45 PM EDT

[#16]

XM855 is shitty self defense ammo.

Minimum, 55 grain XM193 type.

Wolf Gold and IMI are the go tos.
I also like Prvi.

My front line stuff is 68 grain Gold Dot.

Posted: 9/14/2018 9:53:32 AM EDT

[#17]

Is the Fiocci 5.56 any good?

Posted: 9/14/2018 10:20:48 AM EDT

[#18]

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Is the Fiocci 5.56 any good?

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I've shot ~ 400 rds of it (Wal-Mart special), on par with alot mentioned here. Not match, but not junk, IMO.

Posted: 9/14/2018 1:59:05 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
Is the Fiocci 5.56 any good?

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It's ok, it is well known that a percentage of the flash holes are going to be off center so that may be a minor concern if you reload.

Posted: 9/14/2018 3:27:20 PM EDT

[#20]

I just bought a case of the MEN 56gr M193. I hope I didn't just waste my money on junk ammo.

Posted: 9/14/2018 9:02:23 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
I just bought a case of the MEN 56gr M193. I hope I didn't just waste my money on junk ammo.

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Probably top 5 available options.

Top 3 from my personal experience with 3/4 of the stuff listed in this thread.

Posted: 9/15/2018 6:20:29 PM EDT

[#22]

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Yup everyone loves that stuff. Maybe I'll grab a case.

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Yup everyone loves that stuff. Maybe I'll grab a case.

The only reason I never did is because I think it may be on the "slow" side.

I know their 124 9mm is.

Quoted:
M855A1 is where it's at.

A dealer just put several thousand up on gunbroker for $1 each. They didn't last long.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/20171225_175702-401364.jpg

Besides the price what makes me lean towards Mk 318 instead is the fact that M855A1 tears up guns and needed special mags to run properly.

I mean, the terminal effects look amazing but at what cost?

Posted: 9/15/2018 6:37:43 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:

The only reason I never did is because I think it may be on the "slow" side.

I know their 124 9mm is.

Besides the price what makes me lean towards Mk 318 instead is the fact that M855A1 tears up guns and needed special mags to run properly.

I mean, the terminal effects look amazing but at what cost?

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If you can afford M855A1 you can toss guns when you wear them out.

Posted: 9/15/2018 11:08:37 PM EDT

[#24]

Stocking up? M193 and steel cased ammo.

Posted: 9/16/2018 2:08:46 AM EDT

[#25]

make the kind you like

shoot it, make sure your gun likes it as well

refine it maybe, then make more

Posted: 9/16/2018 8:52:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Who has the best deal on 1,000 rounds of M193?

Posted: 9/16/2018 10:02:24 PM EDT

[#27]

Target Sports USA

Eta: I still recommend Wolf Gold. Try it....you will like it.

Posted: 9/16/2018 10:32:20 PM EDT

[#28]

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I’ll be different and suggest Hornady Frontier 55 and 75.

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That’s what I was about to suggest was the 55gr HP or spire point stuff. Or the 75gr hp stuff. I’ev Shot the 55gr hp and it Avery accurate. I would like to try it on some hogs and see how it does. Then again the ultimate defense stuff is m855a1 if you can get a hold of it. Mk318 looks like some good stuff but I can’t get my hands on that. The Hornady Critical Defense 73gr is decent stuff but it is expensive and not sure how it is against barriers. But the gel tests look and it doesn’t over penetrate.

Posted: 9/17/2018 12:27:01 PM EDT

[#29]

How is PRVI PARTIZAN M193 ?

Posted: 9/17/2018 12:52:58 PM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:
How is PRVI PARTIZAN M193 ?

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Good enough that I wished that I'd have bought that instead of the WG that I just bought.

And fwiw, that's a great deal from Target Sports.

Posted: 9/17/2018 2:00:59 PM EDT

[#31]

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Good enough that I wished that I'd have bought that instead of the WG that I just bought.

And fwiw, that's a great deal from Target Sports.

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I was checking out their website and saw that they sell a case for $300.00 shipped.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Posted: 9/17/2018 2:04:59 PM EDT

[#32]

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Quoted:

I was checking out their website and saw that they sell a case for $300.00 shipped.

Thanks for the recommendation.

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It's $275.54/case if you get the Target Sports Prime membership.

Posted: 9/17/2018 2:26:48 PM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:
It's $275.54/case if you get the Target Sports Prime membership.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I was checking out their website and saw that they sell a case for $300.00 shipped.

Thanks for the recommendation.

It's $275.54/case if you get the Target Sports Prime membership.

THAT I didn't know. Thanks.

Posted: 9/17/2018 3:28:21 PM EDT

[#34]

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Quoted:

THAT I didn't know. Thanks.

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Everything seems to be 8% cheaper if you have the Prime membership. Generally pays off if you order 5 cases in a year.

Posted: 9/17/2018 4:42:35 PM EDT

[#35]

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Given a choice between XM193 55 grain and XM855 62 grain, what would you buy?

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M193. It's just a better choice. There's not much of any reason to get M855 unless you can get it significantly cheaper

Posted: 9/17/2018 4:59:41 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:

ZERO chances of it "gum"ing up the chamber! That is an internet myth that can't die soon enough. I have shot thousands of rounds of lacquered case ammo, including mag dumps interspersed with "plinking" and I have never had an ammo related problem with Russian lacquered cased ammo.

The only advice I can give someone who is thinking about shooting Russian steel cased ammo is this: If your rifle won't shoot steel cased ammo, you need to get a different rifle!

But back to the OP's original topc; the ammo I've referred to above is excellent SHTF ammo at a great price! I would choose this stuff over M855 or M193 FMJ, every day and twice on Sunday.

Stack this stuff DEEP!

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why do you think steel jacketed bullets are better than copper fmj 193 for soft targets?

we'll leave 855 out of this because eveyone knows it sucks.

Posted: 9/17/2018 5:03:30 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
M855A1 is where it's at.

A dealer just put several thousand up on gunbroker for $1 each. They didn't last long.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/20171225_175702-401364.jpg

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but is that stuff is worth a buck a round when soft points, TSX, GMX and 318 are available at half that?

Posted: 9/17/2018 5:11:32 PM EDT

[#38]

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Quoted:

but is that stuff is worth a buck a round when soft points, TSX, GMX and 318 are available at half that?

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Absolutely. It's a killer of steel armor while also having excellent soft performance.

Most the time it's hard to find under $2-$3 each.

Posted: 9/17/2018 5:20:41 PM EDT

[#39]

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The cheapest M-193 is what I buy in bulk.

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Then Wolf Gold and 885.

Posted: 9/17/2018 5:21:15 PM EDT

[#40]

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Quoted:

Absolutely. It's a killer of steel armor while also having excellent soft performance.

Most the time it's hard to find under $2-$3 each.

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keeping things in perspective here, who is it us civi's are fighting in the land of mad max that one of those other rounds would not work?

at that price, i would rather have 6 rounds of 318, than one round of 855a1 or maybe even 8 rounds of some SP.

Posted: 9/17/2018 5:34:29 PM EDT

[#41]

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Quoted:

keeping things in perspective here, who is it us civi's are fighting in the land of mad max that one of those other rounds would not work?

at that price, i would rather have 6 rounds of 318, than one round of 855a1 or maybe even 8 rounds of some SP.

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I've got 50k+ of training ammo. I've got some gold dot hunting ammo. I don't mind paying a few bucks to have some really sweet HD ammo.

Posted: 9/17/2018 8:04:17 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is the ammo I was referring to, I love this stuff:

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-223-rem-556x45-steel-case-barnaul-mil-spec-62-grain-soft-point

While not exactly the same as the ammo I'm referring to, the video below shows the potential of good, Russian soft-point ammo. With performance similar to the video below, I don't know why peeps would prefer M855 or M193 over a SP bullet; but hey to each there own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etTvFZlR-0c

Now, keep in mind, this is NOT my primary, home-defense ammo. I use Speer 75 gr Gold Dot for that chore; but for SHTF, Coronal Mass Ejection, Electro-magnetic pulse, Zombie-Apocolypse, Space Invasion, Jesus returns, End-of-Times ammo, I'm stacking the Russian stuff as deep as my meager budget allows.

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Because for SHTF, how well an ammo penetrates through barriers, including steel, is just as important as the terminal performance.

Soft points are great for ballistic performance, but won't penetrate through mild steel well at all. In SHTF I'd be more concerned with being able to shoot through obsticles than how effective the round will be when it hits someone. In SHTF with no medical attention, any .223 hit is going to be incapacitating.

It's not just steel either, those types of soft points also don't penetrate through other hard barriers (like wood) well either. As the below test shows (the 64 grain TRU soft point from the test below is very similar in bullet construction to the barnaul).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLitgXZnjjw&index=14&list=PL7337CFD1A573C18F&t=0s

5.56x45 Penetration Test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLitgXZnjjw

Also, large exposed soft point tips like those can tend to build up lead on the feed ramps which can cause feeding issues over time. Also, I'd rather not stock up on ammo that is going to wear out my barrel and bolt components at twice the speed as non steel cased and jacketed ammo (as lucky gunner's test showed). Especially during SHTF, when parts resupply and being able to swap in a new barrel may be an issue.

There is a reason that M193 is a great general purpose round, with all the sales the past two years it can be had for little more than steel in price, has great terminal performance, and respectable penetration through barriers, including steel.

Posted: 9/17/2018 9:02:03 PM EDT

[#43]

I love this stuff

Attached File

Posted: 9/17/2018 10:09:35 PM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:
I love this stuff

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57761/20180917_195945-674876.JPG

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Showboat.

Nice stash. I'm jelly.

Posted: 9/17/2018 10:11:21 PM EDT

[#45]

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I love this stuff

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/57761/20180917_195945-674876.JPG

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You really should just go ahead and make that image your avatar.

Posted: 9/17/2018 10:46:32 PM EDT

[#46]

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Wolf Gold .223 is always a good choice.
Almost as hot as 5.56, clean, reliable.
Should be able to find it for <$270/1000.

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This. I pickup M855 when I can locate it on the cheap. I recently heard about these but have not picked any up just yet. STRYKER 2nds - 556 M855 STEEL CORE 62 GR FMJ - 1000 CT

Posted: 9/17/2018 11:05:37 PM EDT

[#47]

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Quoted:
This. I pickup M855 when I can locate it on the cheap. I recently heard about these but have not picked any up just yet. STRYKER 2nds - 556 M855 STEEL CORE 62 GR FMJ - 1000 CT

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Shipping makes it not a deal, you can buy non 2nds for just a fraction more per round when they're on sale.

Posted: 9/18/2018 12:12:27 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Both rounds will penetrate 12+ inches easily. Neither is "armor piercing" but the M855 will theoretically perform a little better in that regard. M855 tends to ick pick through a target more readily because its more yaw dependent. That said, if it hits a solid surface (bone, glass, sheet metal, studs in a home, etc) it will usually yaw and sometimes breaks apart.

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at typical "anti-social" engagement distances -- say, from 0 out to about 60-75 yards -- M193 will penetrate practically everything better than M855.
the reason is simple: higher velocity matters. later, farther downrange, the M855's steel core construction and heavier projectile weight start to pay off.

ar-jedi