Nope. The only reason Midway has it cheap now is because they bet on Hillary winning and now have lots of stock to move.  Distributor's are saying prices are going up in April

If that was the case it would have been this cheap all year.

Also, someone in another thread mentioned that "his buddy that buys ammo by the pallet said that prices are going to drop in March."

Hope he’s right!  I’m getting bombarded by emails.

Just like buying Stock. keep buying it AS it drops, don't wait for it to bottom out.

Prices WILL go back up. might not be this year, this administration, or next... but its gonna.

I heard the opposite, prices are supposed to go up in the near future

not sure i would agree with your logic.

You better believe Midway was holding out on selling this low as long as possible.Probably hoping for another panic that never happened.

The consumer won this round and is netting the results.

Buy,buy,buy,or cry,cry,cry later

Midway would have to pay tax on this inventory if they held it that long. Guaranteed they did not wait to pay the tax on it before putting on sale, that would be stupid.

WTF are you talking about? businesses dont pay tax on inventory. they pay income tax on sales from the profit on inventory but only after its sold.

if my inventory sits in the warehouse for 6 years its no skin off my ass, just lost money on the purchase. IMO,  its better to move it at a discount than wait forever to sell it.

if the midway story is accurate, and i would believe it is, they he was probably just waiting the year out to see how the industry when. you never know when a mass shooting is going to start a panic buying deal. it just never happens so its time for him to re-coup his money and sell some IMI at a discount.

Just tested 60 rounds of IMI 193 through my BCM ELW 16"

Lot #266/G head stamp 16

Shooting AR500 steel at 50,75,100 yards kneeling and offhand

Roughly 2moa or so at 100 yards.No failures,primers and brass look good.4 o'clock ejection

I would rate this lot i got the same as Wolf Gold in accuracy.Will buy more for practice.

I'm stocking up. 6K rounds purchased this year. 44K more to go

This is a good price to do that at, keep on buying

Same here. I just got recently, 193 and already have 855 on hand in storage. Never had issue w/IMI 855.

Although, I have never used 193 and not gotten to the IMI 193 yet, friends tell me good things, GTG.

It's been a good buy recently as well. Usually it's a bit higher cost. I found one sale at Midway that was selling
420/rds in ammo can of 193 that I got and my next buy was boxed 193, which was my last buy. That box had was also 420/rds  w/14 boxes
of 30/rds in it (193) for $111 delivered. I thought that was decent from a reputable ammo maker. So, I now have
approx 840/rds of IMI 193 now and it cost me around $235 delivered for both orders at different times (free delivery)..

Add: plus I got one new ammo can out of it......so I thought it was a great deal.

I've been shooting IMI M193 since 2012 or so and have never had an issue with it in any Colts or BCMs.  It is usually on the hot side though.

Mulling over if I want to purchase any IMI, did well on the Federal XM193 and have received my rebate check.  Have used, and overseen the use of hundreds of cases of 5.56 and .223 of various types- Win 3131, Win 3131A (IMI), Win .223, AE .223, PMC .223, HSM, Fed XM193, plus duty ammos of various types.

The IMI made Q3131A of 10-15 years ago was bad at popping primers, jamming up actions and trigger groups.  Caused a burst fire when I was benching a gun at an indoor LE range to zero it when a primer jammed in the trigger group.  Majority of issues were with Bushmaster 16" guns.  Seemed OK in HK G36's and 416's.  Shot up all that stuff in the HK's as I was tired of working on jammed up guns when people needed to be shooting drills.  So hearing about IMI having ongoing primer popping issues, even if uncommon, is concerning.

Have never seen a major issue with Federal XM193 or Win Q3131.  XM193 has always been an obviously good full power load and you can tell when you shoot it as compared to any .223 load.

HSM (first quality-not reloads) saw casings without primer holes (which will cause the primer to pop!). Not good...

PMC .223- weak....very weak.  Guns start malfunctioning sooner due to less powerful loading somthe gun cycles more sluggisly.

So I would trust the IMI as a training only ammo in my opinion, stash if you have to, but I would go Federal all day long instead if given the choice.  .24 per round delivered is still awfully tempting though....just be sure to bring your tools and a spare rifle in case you lock yours up with a misplaced primer.

Some info below  from the SGAMMO concerning the IMI issue.  Also all i could find through searching is one lot number of 00212 causing the m193 issues ,date stamp 2015.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/IMI-M193-1200-Round/467-282903/

That is an interesting and informative thread by SG Ammo. And it makes perfect sense that IMI would back down a bit from "max 556 spec" to medium 556 spec...

If someone is relying on M193 FMJ ammo for SD, 25-50 fps less will not make a difference. For plinking etc, it makes zero difference. But finding out that your favorite SD rifle has a chamber, port hole, whatever, that doesn't tolerate max pressure loads by blowing primers and totally tying up your rifle at the worst possible moment would suck.

The IMI 1200 55 grain took a Florida bounce from 289 to 399. Sad. Glad I got drunk an bought some at the Pre-Cruz prices. I usually dither around and miss the deals.

It's been regularly bouncing between $289 and $399 since Christmas.  I expect $289 will return when they get another truckload and replenish their low stock.

Just found this thread today. Was going to place a order and now all the prices are back to normal.

pretty sure that is NOT true. i bought 10,000 rounds of Q3131A made in israel back then and have never had a problem. you might be thinking of the Q3131, not the A. or maybe the Independence line. mostly that is a chamber problem on those barrels anyway. worn out chamber reamers making tight chambers maybe.

here again, not true info. plenty of stories of XM problems over the years, even with recent batches of 77gr OTM.

IMI is way more accurate the any XM load i ever shot, i all my barrels. i trust it over federal.

I agree with the above post.

Seen plenty of issues with Q3131 popped primers back in the day, but I don't recall any with Q3131A.  I have personally shot about 5000 rounds of Q3131A with zero issues.  But then I also have had zero issues with Fed M193 as well.

Prices back down to 24¢/r at Midway

Ordered another 6K today. Cant beat 24 cents a round delivered. not even worth my time to prep the brass and reload

ordered 6200.
3300 M193
2400 SS109
500 77 razor

Bless you, Buckeye Brother!

BTW, the VISTA GROUP, [VSTO] which owns Federal Ammo, had a recent public stockholder's conference call, and Chris Metz, the CEO at Federal did clearly say that Federal's  ammo prices were heading NORTH come April 2018. FWIW. Buy it cheap 'n stack it deep--NOW.

That deal running now at Midway, $289 shipped for 1200 rds of the IMI M193--awful tempting...

I love the guys replying to my posts above, saying I dont know the difference between Q3131 and Q3131A....or XM193.

FFS- I myself probably shoot at least 10 k a year of 5.56/.223, and probably an equal or greater amount of handgun ammo.  Which really isnt much considering how much time I spend at the range working, training, teaching, etc.

I am a lead LE rifle instructor- teaching classes of many rifle shooters.  I have 100+ rifles in inventory/deployed.  Attending plenty of schools.  Teaching patrol rifle use.  Running in-service training and qualifications.  Working with other agencies and teams...you get the idea.

You think 10k is a lot of ammo?  I have a very small size training class coming up, and expect we will burn thru that much in a 2 days on the range with half a dozen students.  We buy bulk and take delivery by the pallet.  We don't pay FET tax and our pricing is usually pretty good.  We burned thru a lot of the Israeli made Q3131A ammo, in 16" Bushmasters at the time, with a lot of issues.  Same ammo in HK G36's and HK416's - no issues, but we shot most of it in the BM rifles.  Bushmasters are supposed to be 5.56 chambered but I dont really trust them, and we dont purchase BM anymore due to many many issues with them over the years.

We had no similar issues though with US made Q3131.  Nor have I seen similar issue with the probably 300-500 k or more of Fed XM193 I have seen fired off in Colts, BM, or HK rifles of various flavors.

In other words- yes all ammos seem to pop a primer now and then, not a big deal, but the Q3131A did it a lot- enough that it slowed down training classes as we dealt with multiple downed rifles over the course of a training session.  Huge issue at the time.  Enough that when we got in other ammo, I relegated the Q3131A to be used by G36's only until it was all gone.

That is all absolutely accurate- Period.. take the info or leave it, but don't tell me I am wrong just because your ammo lot(s) performed differently than ours.  Or that I dont know US made from Israeli made Winchester.  I have seen millions of rounds fired, easily a couple million rounds of 223/5.56, so sorry if it doesnt match your results.  Never claimed it to be anything other than what I had seen.  Just trying to throw a couple decades worth of observations out there.  You will find other people with similar experiences if you just look.  Wait until you have to beat a rifle open to clear a popped primer in between the cam pin and carrier, or maybe when you are zeroing a rifle and a primer gets stuck in the FCG and it goes full auto...maybe then you will see it is a problem.  But having seen that, there is good reason why I know which is which, and why we said no more Q3131A ammo for us.

Hell even SG Ammo said IMI was always at the top end of the allowable pressure spec, while other companies were in the middle, and newer lots of IMI 5.56 have now been dropped down into mid-range of the spec.  Don't take my word for it- read the above linked info from SG Ammo about it.

On a positive note- I have seen major problems with keeping us supplied with rifle ammo due to ammo panics, wars, and commodity price increases.  We have cancelled training due to inability to resupply ammo on more than one occasion.  Current ammo prices cannot be be beat, and everyone should stock up.  I did indeed buy some IMI from Midway for my personal supply (can't always shoot free ammo).  With the info that IMI dropped their pressure spec down a bit, I doubt the problems will arise, especially as most of my guns are true 5.56 chambered in standard barrel lengths.  Get it while it is cheap with free shipping...

That's good experience above.

But we have seen many reports of popped primers in Q3131 dating back to the 90's.  While I am sure your observations are worth a LOT in this discussion, I am also sure you didn't have a sample from every lot produced.  The fact is, any manufacturer can/will have bad lots from time to time, unless their QA is really extreme.  When I started shooting heavily, it was commonly warned about US produced Q3131.  Specifically, it was Q3131 that was produced in 1999.  There were hundreds of reports of primer issues.

Your observations at least provide some sort of control, in that you know specifically what kind of weapons/barrels were being used.

problems with Q3131

Primer report

Popped primer

1999 Q3131 primers

1999 Q3131

Q3131 popped primer in a Colt

Truth is - other than the very well known bad lot in 1999 for Q3131, you can find a lot of similar stories of popped primers in Q3131A as well.  Ammo with M193 pressures, especially when fired from chambers not 100% conforming to military specifications, will result in a higher incidence of primer issues.  I will say, it is interesting, as a general historical observation, you find fewer reports of popped primer problems with Federal XM193 by comparison.

And historically, you do see a high percentage or these reports with Bushmasters, but then Bushmaster was also one of the top manufacturers of that time.

Informative thread. I'm a bit confused as to what I'm seeing in market for both IMI 193 and 855. Midway has this cheap. Comes in 30rd boxes which are colored. Sgammo and others seem to have 20rd boxes which are colorless cardboard and are a bit more expensive. Are they different products? Which is better? Don't mind paying for higher quality

If you can compare lot numbers that might help you.

The old popped primers seem to have had imi on the box.

The stuff I am ordering now and that sgammo has now is imi systems.

Sgammo is one who said he got the ammo ordered to middle ground spec, I sort of figure all imi is currently made to middle ground spec.  No way do I see everyone having different stuff.

On this midway stuff this thread or another one on the current stuff has pics where some bullets are not so pointy as another one in the box.  I have heard that sometimes there is a mess of sealant on some as well.  Plus some are over crimped.  This is all either from pic in this thread or people discussing this ammo.

I figure midway either is selling imi seconds, doubt it, or he ordered a ton for whatever reason.  And by a ton I mean this order and in a month another order set and on and on and on.  We are benefitting from that.

I shoot paper with my rifles.  I do admit I will eventually take a class or 3 teaching me how to make the most of an ar.  This ammo is great for that.  A lot of folks use steel case stuff for a little bit less, but a lot of em say the steel case is less powerful than m193.  So if running a class and dealing with a dirty gun I think the m193 makes a lot of sense especially at this price.

During the rebates last year some folks got m193 spec ammo from other makers for down to 22 cpr or perhaps a bit lower.  I did not do the rebates, bought some other stuff and was broke.

So right now 24cpr imi that I expect imi will back up if there are any issues is something I will order.  If you want 855 then 26 cpr.  If you want 77 grain then 56 cpr.  All of those prices are dang hard to beat if shopping anywhere else right now.

Midway has free shipping on other stuff if you order over 99 bucks.

I don't know if midway bet on a hillary win or not, I consider it speculation.  I feel he locked in a lot of future orders and he needs to move the stuff instead of trying to store it and have it carried on his books.

I will happily buy some each time the sale comes around and work on storing just a tiny bit of it.

Has anyone reloaded the IMI  brass after shooting the 55gr or 62gr ammo ? I have a bunch of the IMI ammo now...and I thought about saving the brass when I shoot it to reload it with heavier ( 70+ gr) bullets......any thoughts on this ?

I have loaded a lot of IMI. Good brass.

Thx, Ohio! Great to know. I've not been at ye olde Reloading Bench much this Winter, but with some recent IMI brass, I will be.

It's really nice. You'll like it.

I'd like to know if there is a difference too.  Would the plain cardboard boxes be older stock that was produced prior to the changeover at IMI?

I wouldn't buy this ammo.  IF you look at the SG posting on this linked above, it is vastly under powered for 5.56.  I would rather pay a little more and buy full power 5.56 (or pay the same as I did with the Fed rebate offer).

You are looking at over 100 FPS difference n velocity from comparable M193 loading, which is unacceptable.  That is around a 50 yard less effective fragmentation range.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/IMI-M193-1200-Round/467-282903/

Just received a box of 450 of the 55 grain from Midway.

Lot number is 00299/G.

Headstamp:

IMI
2____0
 16

Rob

Here is a quote from what Sam at SG Ammo said regarding IMI . . . . . .

"Keep in mind there is a spec range for pressure, we are having IMI loaded in the middle of the range so it still meets mil-spec pressure for M193 or M855, not too weak, not to strong. The problems occur when you load at the top end of the range. While the top-end is still at spec, the USA commercial firearm market is way too diverse to handle that, too many guns that do not conform to mil-spec"

I might have missed Sam saying something about IMI being vastly underpowered elsewhere, but based on the above taken from the industry forum, he's telling us it is still loaded within the Mil-Spec range for pressure.

Pressure and velocity are not the same thing.  M193 is supposed to meet a specific velocity spec at 15 yards.  The current IMI "M193" falls well short of meeting that velocity spec.

The velocity spec for M193 is 3165 fps (+/- 40 fps) from a 20" barrel @ 78ft

And an average velocity of 3165 @ 78ft, is:

3263 at the muzzle
3244 at 15 feet (typical chrony distance)

That's his point.  But he is a historical stickler for always wanting super-high velocity M193.  We have been through this many times before.  

Assuming your accepted a lot of M193 where the *average* velocity was 3165 - 40 = (3125) @78ft:

3223 at the muzzle
3204 at 15 feet (typical chrony distance)

Therefore - he is technically correct.  Any M193 that does not *average* 3204 fps or greater at 15 feet from the muzzle (chrony distance) when fired from a 20" barrel, does NOT technically meet M193 specification.

Stickler or not, he is indeed correct.  Information like this highlights the importance of this forum.

I was under the impression that IMI was a bit hotter than you average M193 round.

Reading this thread contradicts that.

Older imi would seem to be hotter than current imi.  A search will turn up plenty of threads on it from the popped primer concerns and what not.

Much as I would prefer this to still be as hot as old stuff, I bought a little bit and have no worries about it and if sale comes back will buy more.

Working on my 3rd case of 1200 now, all of it has been trouble free.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/266013/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-450-15-boxes-of-30

Not a bad price