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Posted: 12/26/2013 6:25:27 PM EDT
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is this the same thing as the federal fusion 62gr F223FS1? and are they the same as the Federal 62gr Fusion JSP listed in the recommended ammo section
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/924416/federal-fusion-modern-sporting-rifle-ammunition-223-remington-62-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-20 vs http://www.midwayusa.com/product/915179/federal-fusion-ammunition-223-remington-62-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-20 |
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Harder primer to reduce risk of slam-fire, different powder to achieve box velocity out of a 16" barrel, cases left unpolished a la Lake City military brass. Federal also says it's a harder case head.
The increased oompfh and subsequently, increased range out of a 16" barrel compared to plain Fusion may be worth the extra $2. It's a shame I can't find any .308 Fusion MSR for my PTR91. |
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Both use the same DocGKR Approved 62 grain Fusion/Gold Dot bullet, so you're good with either one. Quoted:
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Are either one of them the Fusion round listed in the recommended SD section? Both use the same DocGKR Approved 62 grain Fusion/Gold Dot bullet, so you're good with either one. Cool thanks for the info |
| I have chronographed between 2700 and 2750 fps from a 16 inch barrel depending on temperature. Not quite 2900 fps from a 20 inch. Same velocity for both versions in my experience. Shoots to same POI as IMI green tip in my two rifles, and same as 75 grain Hornady in my 20 inch. Nice. |
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Fusion MSR should give you a little bit of a velocity boost compared to normal Fusion. Quoted:
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Should I use one over the other for a sbr? Fusion MSR should give you a little bit of a velocity boost compared to normal Fusion. The "boost" is insignificant (60fps?) and may be accounted by lot to lot, temp and barrel differences. Federal stated velocities are based on 16" test barrel for MSR (hence the lower fps) and 20" barrel regular Fusion (hence the higher fps). |
| For a reload try the nosler 60 grain partition or 64 grain bonded solid base. you can watch a couple sites including the nosler pro shop and purchase them on sale for a large order. RL15, 4895 and cfe 223 work well with 60 grain and win 748, RL15, BLC2, and CFE for 64 grain. they are both probably superior technology to the fusion which is just an electroplated copper oveer lead core like the gold dot pistol ammo. they require a fairly high SD and modest velocity to do well. I do like Fusion though and purchased 200 rounds for about $18 delivered. I reload 64 grain nosler in bulk however. Its a great barrier blind bullet and what is used in FBI duty ammo, as was the partition before it. 62 grain barnes tsx easy to reload for also. best results for me w RL15. |
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps.
If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load 
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load Altair on TOS did some water jug testing with a 7.5" pistol and the Federal XM223SP1 load (which apparently uses the 62 grain Fusion bullet). Muzzle velocity was 1923 fps, and the bullet still expanded well (to 0.45") with good penetration and weight retention (61.7 grains). Google "altair federal bonded XM223SP1" and you should find the thread. With a 16" carbine, the MSR is still going faster than 1900 fps at 300 yards. |
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Altair on TOS did some water jug testing with a 7.5" pistol and the Federal XM223SP1 load (which apparently uses the 62 grain Fusion bullet). Muzzle velocity was 1923 fps, and the bullet still expanded well (to 0.45") with good penetration and weight retention (61.7 grains). Google "altair federal bonded XM223SP1" and you should find the thread. With a 16" carbine, the MSR is still going faster than 1900 fps at 300 yards. Quoted:
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load Altair on TOS did some water jug testing with a 7.5" pistol and the Federal XM223SP1 load (which apparently uses the 62 grain Fusion bullet). Muzzle velocity was 1923 fps, and the bullet still expanded well (to 0.45") with good penetration and weight retention (61.7 grains). Google "altair federal bonded XM223SP1" and you should find the thread. With a 16" carbine, the MSR is still going faster than 1900 fps at 300 yards. Thanks much 
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Bought some 62grn Fusion today. I have my theory that it is nearly the same as the MSR with the exception of the harder primer in the MSR, and the MSR is not tumbled to make it look like M855/M193. My theory is that the Fusion velocity is measured from a 24" barrel while the MSR is measured from a 16" AR barrel.....that is why the velocities are different on the two boxes.
I bought six boxes of the Fusion on sale no less.... to try out as a HD load. My 2 cents, if I am missing something I am all ears. Thank you. |
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load "Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards." I believe that works out too 1800fps at the 200 yard mark from a 10" barrel. A member on another forum claims to have spoken to an ATK rep who gave the answer "BELOW 1800fps" which dove tails with speer's claim and the water jug test already mentioned. |
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"Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards." I believe that works out too 1800fps at the 200 yard mark from a 10" barrel. A member on another forum claims to have spoken to an ATK rep who gave the answer "BELOW 1800fps" which dove tails with speer's claim and the water jug test already mentioned. Quoted:
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load "Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards." I believe that works out too 1800fps at the 200 yard mark from a 10" barrel. A member on another forum claims to have spoken to an ATK rep who gave the answer "BELOW 1800fps" which dove tails with speer's claim and the water jug test already mentioned. Twice the price of 193, but three times (roughly) the effective range. I'll take it! Now the question becomes the comparison between this and 75 to 77gr SMK in terms of effective range. Seems on the surface that the Fusion round is tough to beat. Thanks for the input Dave
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Twice the price of 193, but three times (roughly) the effective range. I'll take it! Now the question becomes the comparison between this and 75 to 77gr SMK in terms of effective range. Seems on the surface that the Fusion round is tough to beat. Thanks for the input Dave Quoted:
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load "Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards." I believe that works out too 1800fps at the 200 yard mark from a 10" barrel. A member on another forum claims to have spoken to an ATK rep who gave the answer "BELOW 1800fps" which dove tails with speer's claim and the water jug test already mentioned. Twice the price of 193, but three times (roughly) the effective range. I'll take it! Now the question becomes the comparison between this and 75 to 77gr SMK in terms of effective range. Seems on the surface that the Fusion round is tough to beat. Thanks for the input Dave Effective range aside, the fusion round will penetrate barriers much better than a fragmenting round. This alone puts it way ahead of the heavy grainers to me. Aside from that fact, the short length of the 62 and 64 grain projectile allows it to be fired from barrels with 1-12 twists without issue. With the heavy grainers you NEED a 1-7 twist barrel (or the rarer 1-8). Fusion is shootable out of any twist rate that you might encounter on an AR15, 1-12, 1-9, 1-7, etc. I have shot the fusion round out to 600 yards. It is accurate and effective out to that range, but that is about the limit for that round. It is totally out of gas (when shot from an 18" barrel) at that range and sometimes will begin to slightly keyhole. |
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Twice the price of 193, but three times (roughly) the effective range. I'll take it! Now the question becomes the comparison between this and 75 to 77gr SMK in terms of effective range. If you choose heavy OTM, I would go 5.56. Seems on the surface that the Fusion round is tough to beat. Thanks for the input Dave Quoted:
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What is the fragmentation or expansion threshold of this round? Hard to find concrete data so far. I've seen 1300fps and 1100 fps. If either one is true, that would greatly expand the effective range of the ar platform. 193 seems to be 2700fps which, in a 16in gun, makes it roughly a 100yd load "Gold Dot rifle bullets are optimized to ensure expansion out of barrels down to 10" at a wide variety of velocities out to 200 yards." I believe that works out too 1800fps at the 200 yard mark from a 10" barrel. A member on another forum claims to have spoken to an ATK rep who gave the answer "BELOW 1800fps" which dove tails with speer's claim and the water jug test already mentioned. Twice the price of 193, but three times (roughly) the effective range. I'll take it! Now the question becomes the comparison between this and 75 to 77gr SMK in terms of effective range. If you choose heavy OTM, I would go 5.56. Seems on the surface that the Fusion round is tough to beat. Thanks for the input Dave Molon did a lot of reviews of the heavy OTMs before he moved on to where ever he is now. Molon From a 16" barrel, he recorded MVs for TAP and 5.56 TAP at 2538fps and 2713fps. They 75gr HPBT has a minimum fragmentation velocity of 2200fps which puts your frag limits at 115 yards and 185 yards respectively. I always like to point out the following picture: 
Just because it frags, doesn't mean it really frags. |
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Aside from that fact, the short length of the 62 and 64 grain projectile allows it to be fired from barrels with 1-12 twists without issue. With the heavy grainers you NEED a 1-7 twist barrel (or the rarer 1-8). Fusion is shootable out of any twist rate that you might encounter on an AR15, 1-12, 1-9, 1-7, etc. I'd like to see some testing with 1/12 barrels to back this claim up |
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I'd like to see some testing with 1/12 barrels to back this claim up Quoted:
Aside from that fact, the short length of the 62 and 64 grain projectile allows it to be fired from barrels with 1-12 twists without issue. With the heavy grainers you NEED a 1-7 twist barrel (or the rarer 1-8). Fusion is shootable out of any twist rate that you might encounter on an AR15, 1-12, 1-9, 1-7, etc.
I'd like to see some testing with 1/12 barrels to back this claim up Do your own tests. I have personally fired them out of 1-12 twist barrels with no issues. 62 grain sp projectile are a lot shorter than a M855 green tip projectile, which is actually closer in length to a 69 grain fmj projectile. Barrel twists stabilize bullets based on length, not weight. You can pull an M193 and a fusion round and compare the lengths. It shouldn't take much for you to answer your own question if you own weapons with 1-12 twist barrels. |
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Real world MSR used on Boars.
My daughter and I hunted Boars in Florida using MSR. All the shots were taken at running animals so no quick kill neck shots. Body shots, all were pass through. The meat processor was not happy, the damage was profound and we lost a lot of meat because of it. |
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