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Posted: 11/6/2013 1:52:54 PM EDT
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If you were going to do a build specifically for shooting steel cased ammo, what would you build? Anything special? Any special mods? Certain barrel?
I've got a P.S.A. lower as a starting point. Just wish I could have a 3 position selector, but that's not gonna happen. |
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An AK. ^^^^^^ If you're going to go with the ar platform, i'd choose the normal parts that i would if i was planning on shooting only brass cased ammo EXCEPT for the barrel. I'd choose a cheap barrel with chrome lining. Preferably from a "somewhat" known/reliable source. Like a PSA barrel or something. (I bought one of their barrels for $150 - 16" mid length chrome lined 1/7 twist). bi-metal bullets of steel cased ammo is going to wear your barrel out twice if not three times faster than brass cased jacketed lead bullets will. |
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^^^^^^ If you're going to go with the ar platform, i'd choose the normal parts that i would if i was planning on shooting only brass cased ammo EXCEPT for the barrel. I'd choose a cheap barrel with chrome lining. Preferably from a "somewhat" known/reliable source. Like a PSA barrel or something. (I bought one of their barrels for $150 - 16" mid length chrome lined 1/7 twist). bi-metal bullets of steel cased ammo is going to wear your barrel out twice if not three times faster than brass cased jacketed lead bullets will. Quoted:
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An AK. ^^^^^^ If you're going to go with the ar platform, i'd choose the normal parts that i would if i was planning on shooting only brass cased ammo EXCEPT for the barrel. I'd choose a cheap barrel with chrome lining. Preferably from a "somewhat" known/reliable source. Like a PSA barrel or something. (I bought one of their barrels for $150 - 16" mid length chrome lined 1/7 twist). bi-metal bullets of steel cased ammo is going to wear your barrel out twice if not three times faster than brass cased jacketed lead bullets will. To clarify, it's the bullets, not the cases, that contribute to the barrel wear. This last sentence could be construed incorrectly. |
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Brass vs steel
A very good article. For the $$$ saving in using steel vs brass you can buy a new barrel many times over.... This test was also done during rapid fire, which is going to accelerate the barrel wear much faster. I use steel case some, but I use it at the end of the day after 5.56 and only a few boxes of slow fire. |
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So, knowing that you will probably "shoot out/wear out" that barrel in about 7,000 rounds, the money saved shooting exclusively steel, will pay for a new barrel when you finally wear it out beyond acceptable accuracy. Id probably go with a cheapo CL barrel, probably a used one off the EE, and keep an extra extractor and spring handy. In time, youll bust/wear out an extractor. Also, invest in a mil style star chamber brush and a decent solvent to melt the burned junk out of the chamber. Cruddy chambers tend to bust extractors when using steel cased communist ammo. ;)
The steel doesnt expand and seal the chamber well enough, and some got gasses blow past the steel case and layer up in your chamber. If your a lazy mofo and never clean your chamber, In time (a few hundred rounds of steel later ) , your cases will stick REALLY fricken tight in the chamber and youll have to knock em loose from the muzzle with a cleaningrod and hammer. Lol. So yeah, my vote is try to score a barrel for like $100 on the EE and not worry about thrashing it. After you kill it, get another cheapo barrel and do it again. Lol. But remember, nothing good is cheap, and nothing cheap is good. Theres no free bannanas bro. Steel has its drawbacks, but its very cost efficient to train with. ;) good luck and keep your eyes peeled on the EE!! |
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A AR shoots steel just fine, despite big bellied gun store flys, you do not need anything special. Quoted:
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If you were going to do a build specifically for shooting steel cased ammo, what would you build? Anything special? Any special mods? Certain barrel? +1 |
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I've got a couple of cases(cough, cough) of Wolf polymer in the garage.
I run them through a standard CMMG 20" upper and a 16" carbine upper with a Youngs MN carrier and a high end bolt with the mods mentioned in an earlier post. Wolf runs fine in either gun. The carbine can digest at least a case of Wolf without cleaning, hiccups or drama. Make sure you have a chrome chamber and barrel and a good bolt and the average AR "should" run Wolf fine. Dipping the BCG in lube once in awhile helps too. No experience with the "Tula" ammo from Wally-World. |
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Steel ammo used to be ridiculously cheap. I was buying it pre panic for $210/k shipped, and stocked up on it.
As of lately, its $0.05 or less cheaper than brass. You can sell the casings for more than that, plus the wear on your barrel and cleaning time=no steel for me. |
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Quoted: Exactly.... Also the savings over brass ammo isn't great any longer. I'm done buying steel case ammo. When brass is not much more & already over $300/1K. If I'm spending $300 on ammo it's going to be brass. The days of cheap cheap steel case are gone. right now steel is 100/k cheaper avg. normal market 50-75. your math is broken  hell with 5k round you could afford an new AR |
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Tula is still $5.17/20 at walmart. $17.11/60 otd or. 28cents a round. Anybody know where brass is cheaper than. 40cents delivered? I haven't found it This is what I've observed as well. When I can buy brass case for $0.05-$0.08 more then I'll switch back. |
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Tula is still $5.17/20 at walmart. $17.11/60 otd or. 28cents a round. Anybody know where brass is cheaper than. 40cents delivered? I havent found it I got it a little cheaper but less than .40 a round... cost me .38 a round after shipping http://buygunsandammo.com/product/5-56-62gr-fmj-ss109-penetrator-sealed-brass-case/ |
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Gunbot.... $0.30-0.37 for wolf/tula sometimes more... as I said $300. Wolf gold brass is $0.34+ PMC $0.39+ Most brass case is $0.39+ If steel case was $200/1K again maybe but it isn't & won't be. I can buy tula for $260/k. Brass costs me around $400. Saving $140 per 1000 is worth it to me. |
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really? right now steel is 100/k cheaper avg. Quoted:
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Exactly.... Also the savings over brass ammo isn't great any longer. I'm done buying steel case ammo. When brass is not much more & already over $300/1K. If I'm spending $300 on ammo it's going to be brass. The days of cheap cheap steel case are gone. right now steel is 100/k cheaper avg. No way, man. Cheapest steel cased 556 is ~30cpr - I just bought a case of Wolf Gold for 34cpr (brass and copper/lead). For 4cpr, I'll shoot brass out of anything I care about. That being said, I've decided to shoot nothing but steel out of my HK91 since it dents the cases upon ejection. |
| I'd build a 5.45x39 upper to shoot that cheap corrosive Russian surplus ammo (20 CPR shipped last time I checked). I'd use one of Ballistic Advantage's barrel's and make sure my gas system, flash suppressor, and bcg were corrosion resistant. Then I'd shoot the $ hi@t out of it, and clean with hot soapy water after each range session. |
| I'd build a 5.45x39 upper to shoot that cheap corrosive Russian surplus ammo (20 CPR shipped last time I checked). I'd use one of Ballistic Advantage's barrel's and make sure my gas system, flash suppressor, and bcg were corrosion resistant. Then I'd shoot the $ hi@t out of it, and clean with hot soapy water after each range session. |
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A AR shoots steel just fine, despite big bellied gun store flys, you do not need anything special. Quoted:
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If you were going to do a build specifically for shooting steel cased ammo, what would you build? Anything special? Any special mods? Certain barrel? This is the correct answer. |
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And that Luckygunner test, while useful, needs to be read and understood. Are you planning to do mag dump after mag dump like they did? If so, that test is very much applicable to your situation and you're likely to see similar results. If you're not shooting mag after mag through a very hot barrel, the results will be different...as in, you're not going to see that kind of wear with bi-metal projectiles. Sure, wear will be faster than 'good' ammo, but nothing like they saw in that test. They even allude to this in the section titled "Why did the barrels wear the way they did?". They mentioned "“Because we shot them until they got hot, and then we kept shooting them" and "The rate of fire definitely contributed to rapid barrel wear".
If you're going shoot at sustained high rates of fire, maybe you want to use the 'good' ammo. Or maybe you just accept that barrels are wear items and you need to do the math for yourself. A properly functioning AR15 will shoot the 'commie' ammo just fine, but the decision to use it or not is going to be based on your own needs. |
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Quoted: If your AR was built properly it should have no problems shooting any ammo, including steel cased. If it doesn't, get it fixed. this I've never had a properly functioning rifle that had issue with steel case.. I would use a barrel with a chrome lined bore/chamber other than that use what ever parts you want in the build. |
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I got it a little cheaper but less than .40 a round... cost me .38 a round after shipping http://buygunsandammo.com/product/5-56-62gr-fmj-ss109-penetrator-sealed-brass-case/ Quoted:
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Tula is still $5.17/20 at walmart. $17.11/60 otd or. 28cents a round. Anybody know where brass is cheaper than. 40cents delivered? I havent found it I got it a little cheaper but less than .40 a round... cost me .38 a round after shipping http://buygunsandammo.com/product/5-56-62gr-fmj-ss109-penetrator-sealed-brass-case/ .38c/rd shipped Yeah thats pretty nice price indeed |
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