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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:42:48 AM EDT
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Does anybody know what 30-06 AP ammo is capable of penetrating? What level body armor will stop it? Can ceramic plates stand up to it? Thickness of steel it can go through?
Thanks in advance, Mark |
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The old ceramic plate vests the Navy used to issue to Small Boat Watch gunners were proofed against M-2 AP. Read that in the specs one day while looking up NSNs...
I've fired M-2 AP through 3/4" mild steel plate @ 25 yards, but the actual mil.spec was something like 5/8" of armor plate at 100 yards... I no longer have that reference, but the info is out there... 1DD |
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You need level IV plates. Level II plates it eats up for breakfast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuD4ldHZXdI |
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The top round is a round of M855(LC 08 USGI) at 100 yards. It barely removed the paint. The bottom round was a M2AP(SL 53 USGI) from the same distance at the same time. EASILY shot through this rifle plate. My level 4 ceramic plates say on them they are rated for M2AP..... I don't want to be wearing them when it happens.
M2AP is scary stuff. I've shot through railroad metal rails and tried to stop a round of it in an old 280Z once. It would shoot through at ANY angle. I have some loaded in a 300 mag moving 400FPS faster than it does from the Garand.... I haven't even tried to stop it because not much will. TJR **ETA M2AP from my Garand is why I giggle just a little everytime somebody on here refers to M855 as "armor piercing" 
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Body armor does things that plate armor cannot do, so you're essentially looking at two different issues. M2AP will go through a lot of metal, even pretty hard metal, but some types of body armor may be capable of defending against this round (at relatively long ranges) because, unlike a solid piece of steel that is held rigidly in place, one thing body armor does is move with the impact and spread it out, reducing the point impact when the bullet finally reaches the plates. That's the science of it, anyway. I for one will not volunteer to wear any vest to test how much M2AP can penetrate. My father in law killed a Mercedes truck, straight through the engine block, in Germany with M2AP in 1944, and that tells me a lot about what that round can do.
Edited because I can't proof read... |
Holy shit! No wonder those assholes don't want us to manufacture this stuff! But I believe I have seen some hints online about new "break thru" technology for body armor, and I sincerely hope Obamunch cannot equip his "civilian force" filled with Illegal Aliens and Gang-Bangers with it. If so, we had better all be practicing head shots and crotch shots!
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Holy shit! No wonder those assholes don't want us to manufacture this stuff! But I believe I have seen some hints online about new "break thru" technology for body armor, and I sincerely hope Obamunch cannot equip his "civilian force" filled with Illegal Aliens and Gang-Bangers with it. If so, we had better all be practicing head shots and crotch shots! We in this country ade just now gwtting into gridle or hip shots. The head is an easy target to miss. Your hips are twice as wide. But nothing wrong with keeping a few. 30 cal. cans of M2AP and a few Garands around. |
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A few years ago, there was a controvery about the level IV body armor our troops were wearing in Iraq being defeated by some new "wonder" AP round. Turns out that it was just 7.62x54r API fired at relatively close range. The 7.62x54r API has about a 150 fps advantage over the M-2 AP the ceramic plates were proofed against. Apparently this was enough to defeat some of the body armor some of the time.
1DD |
| I know what my dad told me it would do as he used it in WWII and we still have a few rounds of it around here and as robertson said it will go through rail road rails and some mighty big trees.When I was a kid we shot one throuh a buch of junk cars and got tired of looking for the holes that never seemed to end as it kept on going and going... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Is M2AP even very available anymore? What were the years that stuff was produced? WWII? Great read guys! Yes, you have to buy it from someone who already has it. Often $1/rd. You will most likely find WWII corosive stuff. But it still works! 54 and after most .30-06 is non corrosive.. |
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On an historical note, by mid-WWII, Army ground commanders in the European theater had determined that M-2 AP was a better all around general purpose cartridge compared to M-2 Ball and requested that all future production be M-2 AP for issue to ground troops... This might explain why so much M-2 AP is still around and why so much was issued for general range use in the 1950's and 1960's...
1DD |
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On an historical note, by mid-WWII, Army ground commanders in the European theater had determined that M-2 AP was a better all around general purpose cartridge compared to M-2 Ball and requested that all future production be M-2 AP for issue to ground troops... This might explain why so much M-2 AP is still around and why so much was issued for general range use in the 1950's and 1960's... 1DD Interesting. |
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Is M2AP even very available anymore? What were the years that stuff was produced? WWII? Great read guys! Yes, you have to buy it from someone who already has it. Often $1/rd. You will most likely find WWII corosive stuff. But it still works! You're living in the past. It's $2/rd or more now. |
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Y'all dumb folks should consult your Federal regulations before posting on a public forum. It is illegal to load M2 AP projectiles in any other cartridge than a 30-06. .308 = violation of Federal law. 300 WM = violation of Federal law. You'd best post something to support that, if you intend to go around calling folks "dumb". We'll wait here. |
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Y'all dumb folks should consult your Federal regulations before posting on a public forum. It is illegal to load M2 AP projectiles in any other cartridge than a 30-06. .308 = violation of Federal law. 300 WM = violation of Federal law. You are incorrect: 18 USC 921(a)(17)
By statute, "armor piercing ammunition" applies ONLY to the projectile. It does not matter what, if any, cartridge the bullet was originally loaded in, only the the bullet itself meets the above criteria.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means— (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. (C) The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device. See The Cornell School of Law's page on this statute for full text. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Y'all dumb folks should consult your Federal regulations before posting on a public forum. It is illegal to load M2 AP projectiles in any other cartridge than a 30-06. .308 = violation of Federal law. 300 WM = violation of Federal law. You are incorrect: 18 USC 921(a)(17) By statute, "armor piercing ammunition" applies ONLY to the projectile. It does not matter what, if any, cartridge the bullet was originally loaded in, only the the bullet itself meets the above criteria.(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition” means— (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. (C) The term "armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device. See The Cornell School of Law's page on this statute for full text. correct it's the projectile. .30-06 M2 AP bullets are exempted.. |
| It has one more advantage over regular M2. It is more accurate. My FIL (USMC 1939 - 1948) says he used it shooting competitions for that reason. In the Pacific, some Marines would load their clips with 4 AP and 4 regular rounds so that they could shoot through trees and hit the Japanese soldiers hiding behind them. As one would expect, it hits even harder out of an '03 Springfield than a Garand. Bullet weight is 168 grains. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Is M2AP even very available anymore? What were the years that stuff was produced? WWII? Great read guys! Yes, you have to buy it from someone who already has it. Often $1/rd. You will most likely find WWII corosive stuff. But it still works! I scored some a while back from CMP. They would not promise that it would be non-corrosive - you paid your money and took your chances. I got lucky, as every can I got was verified by lot number as NC. |
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Quoted: It has one more advantage over regular M2. It is more accurate. My FIL (USMC 1939 - 1948) says he used it shooting competitions for that reason. In the Pacific, some Marines would load their clips with 4 AP and 4 regular rounds so that they could shoot through trees and hit the Japanese soldiers hiding behind them. As one would expect, it hits even harder out of an '03 Springfield than a Garand. Bullet weight is 168 grains. I'm curious - why would one expect that? The barrels on both rifles are 24". |
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It has one more advantage over regular M2. It is more accurate. My FIL (USMC 1939 - 1948) says he used it shooting competitions for that reason. In the Pacific, some Marines would load their clips with 4 AP and 4 regular rounds so that they could shoot through trees and hit the Japanese soldiers hiding behind them. As one would expect, it hits even harder out of an '03 Springfield than a Garand. Bullet weight is 168 grains. I'm curious - why would one expect that? The barrels on both rifles are 24". Gas guns waste some of the gas which reduces velocity. |
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It has one more advantage over regular M2. It is more accurate. My FIL (USMC 1939 - 1948) says he used it shooting competitions for that reason. In the Pacific, some Marines would load their clips with 4 AP and 4 regular rounds so that they could shoot through trees and hit the Japanese soldiers hiding behind them. As one would expect, it hits even harder out of an '03 Springfield than a Garand. Bullet weight is 168 grains. I'm curious - why would one expect that? The barrels on both rifles are 24". Gas guns waste some of the gas which reduces velocity. For fuck's sake can we stop with this bullshit stupidity? Difference is negligible. |
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