Copper solid rounds in Perma-Gel

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Copper solid rounds in Perma-Gel

Posted: 8/31/2012 7:25:28 PM EDT

55 grain Hornady GMX, 55 grain TSX (loaded by Federal), and 64 grain Winchester Ranger Razorback XT fired into Perma-Gel from a Steyr AUG with a 16 inch 1:9 barrel at 10 yards.

Video:

Pictures:

Price:
The Hornady GMX is the cheapest, costing about $21 dollars per 20 rounds.
The Winchester Razorback XT retails for about $25 dollars per 20 rounds.
The Federal loading of the TSX round usually sells for just under $30 per 20 rounds.

Discussion:
As seen in the pictures, the TSX opens the most and the fastest. The GMX expanded more than the XT but the XT looks to have started to open up sooner than the GMX. The XT penetrated more than an inch into the wood backstop and had to be cut out, the GMX left a deep impression but bounced off the backstop, and the TSX left a shallow impression and bounced of the backstop. I was anxious to see how the Winchester Razorback XT performed since I hadn't been able to find any pictures of recovered XT rounds on the internet. The lack of expansion the XT round displayed was fairly disappointing, especially when compared to the pictures used to market the round.

Previous Gels:
Birdshot and Buckshot
Russian ammo
Proof of concept

Posted: 8/31/2012 7:31:53 PM EDT

[#1]

The TSX rounds in 6.8 SPC have impressed me and do some of the worst damage I've seen to hogs.

Posted: 9/2/2012 10:02:57 PM EDT

[#2]

WOW!!

Posted: 9/3/2012 6:39:53 AM EDT

[#3]

Thanks for the IM

Love seeing guys testing there ammo. I use to before moving to swfl.

It would seem the RAZOR is a tougher bullet. and did give more penetration with lack of greater expansion

maybe compare both win copper loads.

I bet the TSX will be hard to beat since Barnes has been making solid bullets for a long time now.

Posted: 9/3/2012 7:25:04 AM EDT

[#4]

Thank You....very nice.
My TSX are being shipped from Cabelas this week. Using them for deer season this year.
First year with the AR. Gona try it on Whitetail. 55gr TSX Federal.

I had also considered the Razor for deer but wasn't sure if it would open up enough on deer.

Thanks again.

Posted: 9/4/2012 10:39:40 PM EDT

[#5]

I bet the TSX will be hard to beat since Barnes has been making solid bullets for a long time now.

I agree FMJ. I really like the other two, and think that there may be a place for them as well. But, as you have said, Barnes has a good jump on the copper game. They are as bad as they come, and the gel tests show it. Well put Sir. L2B

Posted: 10/9/2012 12:43:07 PM EDT

[#6]

GREAT job OP! I have tried 55, 62 and 70 TSX. Currently using 70g TSX. Was looking for info on the XT but will be sticking with my TSX after seeing this!

Posted: 10/9/2012 4:24:01 PM EDT

[#7]

That looks like some really dense stuff. I thought the smoke coming from the gel was neat to see.

Posted: 10/9/2012 5:09:58 PM EDT

[#8]

The slow-mo shots really let you get an idea of what a "temporary cavity" is all about. And it's nothing you'd want going on in your abdomen.

Posted: 10/9/2012 10:41:34 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
The slow-mo shots really let you get an idea of what a "temporary cavity" is all about. And it's nothing you'd want going on in your abdomen.

Yep, got enough unpleasantness going on in my abdomen without that..

Impressive gel tests, I think I need to look into some those loads.

Posted: 10/10/2012 7:48:44 AM EDT

[#10]

GREAT Shots clear great lighting you did a very good job

Congrats

Posted: 10/10/2012 2:49:05 PM EDT

[#11]

The spiral permanent wound channel of the Winchester loading is interesting.

I've been partial to Barnes bullets because of what I've seen them do to animals, but the GMX looks pretty solid too.

Posted: 10/11/2012 5:52:25 PM EDT

[#12]

great video and pictures!! there isnt much info regarding solid copper ammunition performance online

Posted: 10/11/2012 7:28:39 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
The spiral permanent wound channel of the Winchester loading is interesting.

I've been partial to Barnes bullets because of what I've seen them do to animals, but the GMX looks pretty solid too.

Interesting but the diameter of the temporary cavity of the Winchester is not as large as the other 2. That and the GMX neck length is longer than the other 2 as well. The TSX is clear winner here but all the rounds performed adequately.

Posted: 10/11/2012 8:55:41 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The spiral permanent wound channel of the Winchester loading is interesting.

I've been partial to Barnes bullets because of what I've seen them do to animals, but the GMX looks pretty solid too.

Interesting but the diameter of the temporary cavity of the Winchester is not as large as the other 2. That and the GMX neck length is longer than the other 2 as well. The TSX is clear winner here but all the rounds performed adequately.

I dont think the dimensions of the TC in this medium is accurrate.

Posted: 10/11/2012 9:55:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The spiral permanent wound channel of the Winchester loading is interesting.

I've been partial to Barnes bullets because of what I've seen them do to animals, but the GMX looks pretty solid too.

Interesting but the diameter of the temporary cavity of the Winchester is not as large as the other 2. That and the GMX neck length is longer than the other 2 as well. The TSX is clear winner here but all the rounds performed adequately.

I dont think the dimensions of the TC in this medium is accurrate.

The dimensions of the temporary cavity won't be the same as in calibrated gelatin, but the proportional differences among the bullets should be similar, especially since they correspond to the expanded diameters of the recovered bullets.

Posted: 10/12/2012 6:16:35 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Interesting but the diameter of the temporary cavity of the Winchester is not as large as the other 2.

Of course not. Since the Winchester exhibited less expansion, the rotation of the bullet was not as inhibited as the other two during penetration. It probably also maintained a higher velocity as it went through the gelatin due to a lack of frontal expansion and subsequent resistance. It's not surprising at all that less temporary upset of the medium was demonstrated and we got to see a narrow, spiral permanent channel.

The HP on that unfired Winchester round looks a little rough. I wonder if the results shown with that single round are demonstrative of what we would see if the control group was increased to ten or fifteen rounds.

Posted: 10/23/2012 2:23:49 PM EDT

[#17]

I was just wondering the other day what Winchester's Hog round would do....thanks.

Posted: 10/26/2012 3:59:16 AM EDT

[#18]

What are the post-expansion diameters of the TSX and GMX?

Posted: 10/26/2012 7:21:46 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
What are the post-expansion diameters of the TSX and GMX?

TSX
Smallest Diameter: .323 inches
Largest Diameter: .518 inches

GMX
SD: .314
LD: .430

XT
SD: .266
LD: .365

Posted: 10/26/2012 8:47:00 AM EDT

[#20]

I really appreciate these test. You have done a hell of a good job. The time it takes to video, remove the rounds, etc.

Damn good job.

Posted: 10/26/2012 3:32:41 PM EDT

[#21]

I've been wondering how the GMX compared to the TSX. Thanks for posting this.

Posted: 10/26/2012 9:24:49 PM EDT

[#22]

How have you found the accuracy to be with the TSX? I have been hearing that it suffers in that department from shorter barrels. It seems to perform well, though.

Posted: 10/29/2012 8:40:23 PM EDT

[#23]

tagged because good info, thanks OP

Posted: 10/30/2012 5:03:32 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
How have you found the accuracy to be with the TSX? I have been hearing that it suffers in that department from shorter barrels. It seems to perform well, though.

Not just shorter barrels. I've seen a few reports of folks getting around MOA accuracy, but for the most part it seems like 1-2 MOA. It's not supposed to be match ammo, though.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Copper solid rounds in Perma-Gel

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