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Posted: 7/24/2012 6:33:46 AM EDT
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Who makes the good .308 and 5.56 ammo and whose ammo should not be touched with a ten foot pole?
Example, is Turkish any good? ____________________________________________________________________ ("Please! I wouldn't touch you to scratch you."––Catwoman, (w,stte), "Batman Returns") |
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Okay, I saw it.
Unfortunally, it really does not answer my question. I didn't ask what companies were good; I asked what countries are known for good and bad quality control. If S&B was made in India, I wouldn't touch it because I've been taught that India is a poor country to buy from, regardless of the company. Further, though it is not a matter of quality control, I do not buy from Russian companies. I don't need to know the company; I need to know what country it is from, what countries make good and what countries make bad, ammo. ___________________________________________________________________________ ("There, you see? That wasn't so hard and that is really not a bad mark against you. You probably just heard it somewhere else."––Chief Inspector Kolp interrogating Armando, (w,stte), "Conquest of the Planet of the Apes") |
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Quoted:
You can't simply look at the country; it all depends on the manufacturer. Saying "All Greek ammo sucks" is stupid if you base the opinion solely on Olympic's performance because you'd be ignoring the excellent HXP .30-06 ammo. If all one has is "Country of Manufacture:", one needs something to make a judgement call by. _____________________________________________________________________ ([talking about schnapps], "Yes, the Germans use to run their bombers on it....the ones that didn't come back."––Gambit, The New Avengers, "The Eagle's Nest") |
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Quoted: Quoted: You can't simply look at the country; it all depends on the manufacturer. Saying "All Greek ammo sucks" is stupid if you base the opinion solely on Olympic's performance because you'd be ignoring the excellent HXP .30-06 ammo. If all one has is "Country of Manufacture:", one needs something to make a judgement call by. same as Z said. All countries have ammo that KB'd some rifles. There is some Israeli 308 stuff that will KB guns but for the most part its specific lots In general OFV is bad, especially the newer stuff paki I wouldn't touch ultramax or ultracrap wolf blows up fals 7.62 CBC of the 70s 50 cal AP Dominican Republic so really you need more than just a country |
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I made a habit of avoiding the Chilean 7.62 and some Israeli 7.62- I saw a lot of that ammo that was stored badly/abused.
Indian ammo was mentioned as avoidable in 7.62. Most other 7.62 I bought in bulk was good, a few favorites of mine were Aussie F4, German DAG/MEN, Singapore 7.62, Also had good results with Portugese,Argentine,FN-Belgian, British RG- all these were shot with good or better results in 7.62. One of my personall favorites in 5.56 was Guatamalan, bought 10k or so back in 99 or so. About the only 5.56/223 that I avoid is Tula, some like it, not for me. I will shoot Tula in other calibers. Most Russian ammo is ok for blasting, but stinks and is dirty. That's my .02 
Edit to add-> go to the top bar and click on tools, then go to ammo oracle- there is much good info (and many shooters experiences). |
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You can't go just by country of manufacture.
Prvi Partizan ammo is gtg and made in Serbia. Some Fiocchi is made in Italy and it's gtg. HXP Greek ammo is the only thing I use in my Garand. Good stuff. Norma makes some of the highest quality ammo on the planet. But to the OP, is there a specific round/loading from a specific country that you're asking about? That would narrow the matter down considerably. ETA.. okay, Turkish. No idea, I've never even seen any Turk ammo. They do make decent shotguns though. |
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Quoted:
You can't go just by country of manufacture. Prvi Partizan ammo is gtg and made in Serbia. Some Fiocchi is made in Italy and it's gtg. HXP Greek ammo is the only thing I use in my Garand. Good stuff. Norma makes some of the highest quality ammo on the planet. But to the OP, is there a specific round/loading from a specific country that you're asking about? That would narrow the matter down considerably. ETA.. okay, Turkish. No idea, I've never even seen any Turk ammo. They do make decent shotguns though. Turkish ammo, MKE of Turkey, believed to be Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation, imported by American Tactical Imports. ________________________________________________________________________________________ ("Where are you going? Why don't you walk the wheel with us? What is the matter my American friend? What has upset you? Oh! I know. The bad machine doesn't know that he's a bad machine. You still don't believe it. You still don't believe you're a bad machine? To know yourself is to know God, my friend. The factory knows, that's why they put you here. You'll see... You'll find out... In time, you'll know."––Ahmet, (w,stte), "Midnight Express") |
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Turkish ammo is usually pretty good unless it's ratty, poorly stored surplus. Indian 70s-era 7.62x51 was known to be ok, but their later 90s-made stuff had a horrible reputation. I've heard decent things about Pakistani 7.62x51 but personally had major issues with some 60s .303(lots of hang-fires and duds). Avoid early 1980s Israeli TZZ 7.62 like the plague, as it had known issues with the brass. Commercial IMI or Samson(the same thing)7.62x51 is excellent stuff.
You can't condemn an entire country for occasional lots of bad ammo, especially military surplus. |
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Yeah, I've still got probably 500 rounds of the 90's Indian 7.62 stuff, and while I've seen no high pressure signs with it, I get 10"groups with it at 50 yards, compared to 3/4" groups with my reloads in the same gun at the same distance. Also, the indian brass varies so much that I get some of the casings where the rims are so thick they won't fit in my shell holder to reload.
Also, I've still got large quantities of the early 80's israeli stuff too, and like everybody says, it's terrible. Maybe 3 or 4 rounds out of 10 will actually fire, and when I pull the bullets on the rounds that won't fire, the powder is usually solidified into one big lump that won't come out of the casing. And the brass usually splits near the head of the case on the 1st or second firing. All of the serbian, czech, portuguese, romanian, polish, german, swiss, and swedish ammo that I've had the chance to fire so far has been excellent quality. I can't speak for anyone else's experiences though. |
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Guess I should add that '70's vintage Bulgarian 7.62x54R is some good stuff as well. Very accurate.
The Mexican Aguila .22 lr that I've used is decently accurate, and cheap, but absolutely the dirtiest ammo of any type I've ever fired. Receiver looks like it's full of Kingsford charcoal dust after about 50 rounds. |
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Quoted:
The ATI imported stuff got mixed reviews from what I remember. One of the reasons why I ask for opinions here is that I trust the data a little bit better. What someone wrote on the Net the other year may just be butt hurt or maybe "hey buds, let's get together and swamp them!" as equally as it might be accurate. For example, I got mixed reviews for a distributor I eventually ordered from. What tipped the scales? A poor review in the collection of reviews......that on another site had further entries to how the company rectified the situation. So what is said one place may not be quite the same in another. As it was, I didn't order the Turkish because the reviews were generally poor....and I found a cheaper source for the Serbian. I am not really concerned with how tight the ammo lands as much as I am about whether or not it will explode my rifle, send a round only half way down the barrel, fire, extract properally, that the brass stays together, and so forth. Perhaps I should be but I am not in competition and I do not shoot police sniper. For me, it comes down to being able to put rounds into "the Sil" from a standing, unsupported position. ____________________________________________________________________________________ ("There is the railway. And that is the desert. From here until we reach the other side, no water but what we carry with us. For the camels, no water at all. If the camels die, we die. And in twenty days they will start to die."––Sherif Ali "There is no time to waste, then, is there?"––Lawrence, (w,stte), "Lawrence of Arabia") |
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It would also be nice if it fired. Was shooting the other day and must have had 4 nonfires out of 20. Maybe it had reached primer limit. I don't know the exact specs of the manufacturer since I had loaded the .308 magazines quite a while back but I suspect it was from an order that came in short on the amount and had included a 30-06 round or two.
Markings on the butt of the brass are an "L" at the top and and what looks to be a 5 point star at the 3 and 9 o'clock. At the 3, 7 and 11 o'clock, there is a triangle on the primer edge. At the bottom at letters like UV. and then a backward 7 and an F with the lower bar missing. I probably bought the ammo during the surplus years. I have not been shooting the -10 much over the years, certainly not since 2008 when I got my -15, since it is rather expensive to operate. After talking with the liberals this week, though, I decide it was time to renew that relationship and put my rifles on a 4 week rotation for range visits............and I love the WHOMP, the power of the -10. Despite what others say, it's an excellent replacement for sex. _______________________________________________________________________________________ ("So the Lord is still shooting blanks."––Officer when he hears that the Lady has come to church to bless her with a child, (w,stte), A Sharpe movie) |
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