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Posted: 2/22/2011 10:33:49 PM EDT
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I am looking for more effective home defense ammunition, and I have 1:9 and 1:7 barrels so don't want 75/77gr which may not work in the 1:9. Would prefer to avoid JSP due to possible leading issues. Also want cannelure and sealed case which most of the 68gr match loads lack.
Looking to fit my criteria, I found best price per round online is $.75 for Mk318 Mod0, about $1.15 for 55gr barnes TSX I have not heard much about the Mk318, so wondering why it is less expensive than the similar TSX or 75gr TAP ammo. Any data on expansion, neck length, pen etc? Are there any other available loads that meet my criteria? Thanks! |
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Don't think I'd use MK318 as it is designed to penetrate barriers such as walls. I know there is a chance of that with any bullet, but I would be more concerned with the safety of family members/neighbors when using a bullet designed specifically to overcome barriers.
As you said, 75-77gr stuff may not work in a 1/9 barrel, but every barrel is different, so I would test it and see. Also, I doubt leading from PSP ammo is going to be an issue unless you're firing many rounds between cleanings. I would test for function though, which is a good idea with any round. |
| If by home you mean a conventional house (not a castle) by all mean get a 75gr bullet ammo. 'Course you need to try it but in my experience instability (from 1:9 twist bbl) sets in at +100yds (and you don't want to kill "intruders" at +100yds). I get perfectly round holes up to 100yds. If you still want your bullet to be stabilized in flight no matter what and no matter how far then 69gr Fed SMK or PRIVI 69gr are viable options. I would skip the barrier rounds for Home D (MK318, Bonded bullets, partitions etc) |
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Thank you, generally good advice.
My impression was that most defensive ammo solid enough to reliably stop bad guys WILL go through interior walls. Obviously you have to know your target and what is behind it! Most of my exterior walls are brick veneer so I assumed that would stop 223 - Any data on Mk318 defeating brick? From The Mk318 gel tests seems like it has a much shorter neck than 75gr match - which is better unless you are attacked by obese terrorists. In terms of SP, they are great if you can clean the carbine regularly. In a defensive scenario during a katrina type event I don't know how well the normal PM schedule will hold up. I am happy to try 75gr, I have 1:7 also. Bottom line is I am looking for sealed case, crimped primers, cannelure, and not too expensive - which is hard to find on match ammo but on milspec stuff! |
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http://theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm found 223 starts turning sideways after a few layers of drywall, so a bullet already going sideways should not have much penetration against brick. in theory!
If there was any decent frangible ammo I would use it, but generally if you use a load powerful enough to stop bad guys it will go through most walls. Found an interesting SP load at 50 cents: XM223SP1 62gr Bonded CASE MOUTH SEALANT: No CASE KNURL: No I assume that means no cannelure? |
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Quoted: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm found 223 starts turning sideways after a few layers of drywall, so a bullet already going sideways should not have much penetration against brick. in theory! If there was any decent frangible ammo I would use it, but generally if you use a load powerful enough to stop bad guys it will go through most walls. Found an interesting SP load at 50 cents: XM223SP1 62gr Bonded CASE MOUTH SEALANT: No CASE KNURL: No I assume that means no cannelure? Wrong. This is a case knurl: That load is basically Federal Fusion 62 grain bullets. No case mouth sealant, but it likely has sealed primers. It's not a bad price for a decent load. For inside the house, short range, I'd try some 75gr stuff in the 1/9 twist and see if you get any indication of keyholes out to 100 yards or so. Not just a few shots, but several boxes worth (say 50-100 rounds). I had a RRA 1/9 that stabilized both 75gr Hornady and 77gr Sierra bullets with no problems, as far as I could shoot 'em (350yds verified on paper, no keyholes, minute of badguy accuracy with an EOtech). You wont know how they'll shoot unless you try them. I handload 75gr bullets to approximate .223 TAP velocity, or a tad higher. Right now, it's my go-to carbine load next to my bed. |
| I was thinking of the brick first, but as a barrier against leaving the house after passing through some things it would help. I just shot some 318 at the metal part of a railroad tie and the 855 makes a tiny hole out the back and the 318 goes about half way. The metal isn't all that hard but at about 1/2, inch it isn't bad either. X39 doesn't go all the way through either, but makes a much larger bulge out the back. |
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Quoted:
Would prefer to avoid JSP due to possible leading issues. Are there any other available loads that meet my criteria? Thanks! I just bought some bonded fusion SP Im not worried at all about build up on the feed ramps / leading isues Heck they almost look like a OTM anyway I would try 75gr TAP My 1/9 liked 77gr smk and 75gr TAP so you might get lucky If not OTM then Bonded SP / tsx 55gr |
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Why no love for the 60gr Vmaxloads? Or even the 55gr? I used to kill coyotes with the 45gr Vmax Fiocchi loads and it was awesome, one shot stop. Looked like a grenade hit the vitals. If you are worried about overpenetration, look at the lighter weight loads. They expand completely and generally get at least 12" penetration and are very easy to find. They also generally shoot well out of all barrels. My 1:8 LW barreled upper is just as accurate with many 45-55gr rounds as 62gr+.
Daniel |
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Quoted:
Why no love for the 60gr Vmaxloads? Or even the 55gr? I used to kill coyotes with the 45gr Vmax Fiocchi loads and it was awesome, one shot stop. Looked like a grenade hit the vitals. If you are worried about overpenetration, look at the lighter weight loads. They expand (No, they fragment) completely and generally get at least 12" penetration (No, they don't) and are very easy to find. They also generally shoot well out of all barrels. My 1:8 LW barreled upper is just as accurate with many 45-55gr rounds as 62gr+. Daniel Please read the "Best choices for self-defense ammo" thread before you make more recommendations. |
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Beautiful, any hard numbers on that short short neck length or testing through denim, glass, drywall?
I have nothing against 75gr stuff, but if you want it with cannelure, crimped primers, and case sealant like milspec ammo it get really expensive. That's where the mk318 comes out ahead. |
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I have nothing against 75gr stuff, but if you want it with cannelure, crimped primers, and case sealant like milspec ammo it get really expensive. Gotta pay to play. 
Honestly when will you need waterproof ammo? are you a navy seal firing from the water? A quick dunk wont kill the regular ammo either, it'll have to sit submerged for a long time. I can understand wanting the cannelure for auto rifles but the other stuff isent that important. |
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I have nothing against 75gr stuff, but if you want it with cannelure, crimped primers, and case sealant like milspec ammo it get really expensive. Gotta pay to play.
Honestly when will you need waterproof ammo? are you a navy seal firing from the water? A quick dunk wont kill the regular ammo either, it'll have to sit submerged for a long time. I can understand wanting the cannelure for auto rifles but the other stuff isent that important. I did a little test when I was reloading 9mm / 124gr ball I didnt use any sealant. I set a single rd in a glass of water for over 24hrs It fired off with no problem
Main reason I like the mk262 #1 The 77gr smk OTM #2 NATO pressure = longer frag range #3 My 2 LMT M4`s like the 77gr SMK bullet over Hornady 75gr |
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Quoted:
Beautiful, any hard numbers on that short short neck length or testing through denim, glass, drywall? I have nothing against 75gr stuff, but if you want it with cannelure, crimped primers, and case sealant like milspec ammo it get really expensive. That's where the mk318 comes out ahead. Here's the measurements I gathered from the gel. Neck length: .4" As is typical with OTM bullets the neck length is very short. Depth to Max cavity: 3.2" again, typical with OTM Max cavity diameter: 4.7" Total penetration: 14.5" + Where does this round really start to come apart i.e. big pieces fragmenting: 7.5"-9" as can be seen in gel pic #3 |
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