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Posted: 9/27/2011 11:38:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By mike12345: I would like to know the velocity at which this will no longer fragment to extrapolate distance from different weapons. I know the fragmentation distance will be farther than what you get from other fragmenting ammo. I seem to remember someone saying 2300FPS but thats still only 200yards from a 14.5in anyone have a 7.5in barrel and mk318? fire it into water jugs at 25yard increments that shuld tell you where. This round doesn't rely on fragmentation as much as expansion. Also, water jug tests don't tell you anything except how well the round does vs water jugs. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2011 10:54:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By Krylancelo:
Originally Posted By mike12345:
I would like to know the velocity at which this will no longer fragment to extrapolate distance from different weapons. I know the fragmentation distance will be farther than what you get from other fragmenting ammo. I seem to remember someone saying 2300FPS but thats still only 200yards from a 14.5in anyone have a 7.5in barrel and mk318? fire it into water jugs at 25yard increments that shuld tell you where. This round doesn't rely on fragmentation as much as expansion. Also, water jug tests don't tell you anything except how well the round does vs water jugs. as i've said before ballistics jel is 90% water so firing into water jugs will show you what the round would do. You dont have the wound channel to look at but the bullet does the same thing. This bullet dosent expand the jacket is very thin and fragments. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2011 12:09:49 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/29/2011 1:48:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Looks like there is now a third version of MK318 packaging. MK318 in NEW BOX IIRC, the BVAC are another companies' loads using pulled Mk318 bullets, not Federal Mk318 as a complete cartridge. |
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Posted: 10/30/2011 11:12:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DM1975]
[#5]
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Looks like there is now a third version of MK318 packaging. MK318 in NEW BOX IIRC, the BVAC are another companies' loads using pulled Mk318 bullets, not Federal Mk318 as a complete cartridge. I just bought 13 boxes of this for $9 a box at a gun show today. Does it perform as well or close enough to the Federal stuff or does anyone know? I noticed they are crimped with a FCD into the top grease ring instead of roll crimped over the top drive band and the bullets can be slightly turned inside of the casing on a few of the bullets. I can't tell and haven't pulled one yet, but I would almost bet they don't have a grease seal on them. Also, they don't seem to have crimped primers either. |
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Posted: 10/31/2011 12:34:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Looks like there is now a third version of MK318 packaging. MK318 in NEW BOX IIRC, the BVAC are another companies' loads using pulled Mk318 bullets, not Federal Mk318 as a complete cartridge. They are reloads, albeit commercial ones. They can suffer all the same maladies of any other reload such as fatigued brass, improper powder charge, decreased accuracy due to using pulled bullets, etc. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2011 2:24:06 PM EDT
[#7]
They are reloads, albeit commercial ones. They can suffer all the same maladies of any other reload such as fatigued brass, improper powder charge, decreased accuracy due to using pulled bullets, etc. What fo you mean that it could be fatigued? That round uses new brass. |
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Posted: 10/31/2011 3:43:58 PM EDT
[#8]
I just pulled one of the BVAC rounds that i found to have a loose projectile about halfway out of the casing with a kinetic puller. These are not sealed, in fact I pushed it back in place with my fingers and re-crimped it with my FCD and now it no longer spins freely. I'm gonna go through and double check them all and re-crimp what needs it and never buy ammo from them again. I sent an email to them asking if they are loaded to give the same velocity as the real stuff but still waiting on the answer.
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Posted: 10/31/2011 4:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eric10mm]
[#9]
Originally Posted By Swstock: Alrighty then. Any clue whether the reloading company did any research at all into the powder charge? Is it full-powered compared to the original loading? Or did they just drop in a load charge straight out of some reloading book? Or did they pull the charge weight out of their ass? Then there is the (lack of a) crimp issue, on the bullet and the primer. And is it a hard mil-spec primer, or a standard small rifle primer?They are reloads, albeit commercial ones. They can suffer all the same maladies of any other reload such as fatigued brass, improper powder charge, decreased accuracy due to using pulled bullets, etc. What fo you mean that it could be fatigued? That round uses new brass. I'm fairly certain Federal did the work. The cost savings on those particular reloads, compared to the price of the genuine stuff, just does not outweigh the potential downsides enough for me to purchase them. EVAR! |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2011 4:44:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Swstock]
[#10]
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By Swstock:
Alrighty then. Any clue whether the reloading company did any research at all into the powder charge? Is it full-powered compared to the original loading? Or did they just drop in a load charge straight out of some reloading book? Or did they pull the charge weight out of their ass? Then there is the (lack of a) crimp issue, on the bullet and the primer. And is it a hard mil-spec primer, or a standard small rifle primer?
They are reloads, albeit commercial ones. They can suffer all the same maladies of any other reload such as fatigued brass, improper powder charge, decreased accuracy due to using pulled bullets, etc. What fo you mean that it could be fatigued? That round uses new brass. I'm fairly certain Federal did the work. The cost savings on those particular reloads, compared to the price of the genuine stuff, just does not outweigh the potential downsides enough for me to purchase them. EVAR! Im trying to figure out why they are cheaper. New brass, same bullet, the only thing left is the powder. They say that it 5.56 but Im not sure where they learned how to load them. Ill either be buying another 1000 rounds of Federal Mk318, ir trying the BVAC. I havent made that decision yet. Facts as of now: New brass, new bullets. This is confirmed by BVAC. |
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Posted: 10/31/2011 7:28:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I got a response back from BVAC but all it said was they are loaded to exact specifications as the real stuff and the loose projectile is ok as long as bullet push is tight.
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Posted: 10/31/2011 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By DM1975:
I got a response back from BVAC but all it said was they are loaded to exact specifications as the real stuff and the loose projectile is ok as long as bullet push is tight. If it were loaded to exact (mil)-specifications it would be properly crimped, sealed and use a hard cup primer. I could see them saying it was loaded to match mil-spec performance. I was about to pull the trigger on some of this. I've always had good luck with HSM so I figured BVAC should be of the same quality. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2011 8:35:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Minuteman:
Originally Posted By DM1975:
I got a response back from BVAC but all it said was they are loaded to exact specifications as the real stuff and the loose projectile is ok as long as bullet push is tight. If it were loaded to exact (mil)-specifications it would be properly crimped, sealed and use a hard cup primer. I could see them saying it was loaded to match mil-spec performance. I was about to pull the trigger on some of this. I've always had good luck with HSM so I figured BVAC should be of the same quality. Im confused, is the bvac version not a sealed primer? |
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Posted: 10/31/2011 9:36:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Not that I can tell.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/5/2011 12:19:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Anyone have any accuracy tests of the BVAC?
And preferably not bought from a gunshow, that guy could have loaded those himself |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 1:24:57 AM EDT
[#16]
You think someone is gonna reload a Mk318 round and try and pass it off as BVAC instead of Federal? Small gains for the trouble I think.
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Posted: 11/6/2011 7:14:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Saddlerocker:
Anyone have any accuracy tests of the BVAC? And preferably not bought from a gunshow, that guy could have loaded those himself I tried some of the BVAC mk318 loads a couple weeks ago in my 16" LMT MRP which has a 1:7 twist and i was getting around 5" groups at 100 yards. I shot several other BVAC loads and found my rifle just didn't like their stuff but that is not to say you will see the same results. I bought some pulled mk318 bullets from the EE and have been able to get less than 2" groups so far. |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 9:33:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Ok, I shot my gun show purchased BVAC Mk318 yesterday and had pretty good results. It isn't match quality by any means, but it held under 2 MOA for me pretty well. It also blew the back out of a 2x4 quite nicely too. This was bought at a gun show from a reputable local dealer so I do not expect it to be counterfeit but I guess anything can happen
 iIf it is counterfeit then he did a good job at it.
My complaint about it is that the primers are not crimped or sealed and the bullets are lacking the grease seal. Other than that performance was as expected. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2011 11:04:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Swstock]
[#19]
Originally Posted By DM1975:
Ok, I shot my gun show purchased BVAC Mk318 yesterday and had pretty good results. It isn't match quality by any means, but it held under 2 MOA for me pretty well. It also blew the back out of a 2x4 quite nicely too. This was bought at a gun show from a reputable local dealer so I do not expect it to be counterfeit but I guess anything can happen iIf it is counterfeit then he did a good job at it.
My complaint about it is that the primers are not crimped or sealed and the bullets are lacking the grease seal. Other than that performance was as expected. I just got my bvac mk318 and i noticed this too. Primers dont appear to have sealant, neither do the bullets. My federal does though. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2011 6:25:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By Mister_H:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2vn0wft.png http://i51.tinypic.com/2livcap.png A couple of pictures from Afghanistan last year. I was using AA53 (MK262 Mod 1), but this is what we were using in the M16A4's and M4's. If they were using the MK318 in the M16's and M4's but you were using MK262, what rifle were you using? |
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Posted: 11/15/2011 11:02:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
Originally Posted By Mister_H:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2vn0wft.png http://i51.tinypic.com/2livcap.png A couple of pictures from Afghanistan last year. I was using AA53 (MK262 Mod 1), but this is what we were using in the M16A4's and M4's. If they were using the MK318 in the M16's and M4's but you were using MK262, what rifle were you using? MK12 Mod 1 |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/16/2011 1:48:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By DM1975:
I got a response back from BVAC but all it said was they are loaded to exact specifications as the real stuff and the loose projectile is ok as long as bullet push is tight. I must disagree. I was having some severe accuracy problems with some of my reloads, and I found that the bullet was moving FORWARD when the cartridge was chambered, and came to a stop, even though the bullet was not seated loosely and passed the push test against a bench. A couple thou. polished off the expander ball cured the problem. A loose bullet in the case is a no-no. So, measure a BVAC round with a loose bullet for OAL, load it in your mag with a round chambered, fire the weapon, gently extract the round that you measured, and see how much further forward the bullet has moved. Mine moved as much as 14 thou. forward, and the bullet was tight and could not be moved by hand. Accuracy sucked. I would run all the Bvac rounds through a crimp die and use them up in practice, and that would be that for BVAC. 
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Posted: 11/16/2011 2:12:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By freewilly: Originally Posted By DM1975: I got a response back from BVAC but all it said was they are loaded to exact specifications as the real stuff and the loose projectile is ok as long as bullet push is tight. I must disagree. I was having some severe accuracy problems with some of my reloads, and I found that the bullet was moving FORWARD when the cartridge was chambered, and came to a stop, even though the bullet was not seated loosely and passed the push test against a bench. A couple thou. polished off the expander ball cured the problem. A loose bullet in the case is a no-no. So, measure a BVAC round with a loose bullet for OAL, load it in your mag with a round chambered, fire the weapon, gently extract the round that you measured, and see how much further forward the bullet has moved. Mine moved as much as 14 thou. forward, and the bullet was tight and could not be moved by hand. Accuracy sucked. I would run all the Bvac rounds through a crimp die and use them up in practice, and that would be that for BVAC. I would return them as defective rounds. |
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Posted: 11/16/2011 6:33:30 PM EDT
[#24]
I just ran them through my fcd and shot a box of em and they were fine.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2012 11:00:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Superior report, Sir
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2012 1:06:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Gents,
I took some handloaded ammo with pulled Mk318s on a feral pig hunt just to see how they'd perform. Only was able to take one pig, a 250 pounder, from fairly short range. Two bullets were recovered from the body cavity. They had both completely shed the nose (the copper and lead) with just the copper shank being left. Remarkably, the remaining weight on the two is only one tenth of a grain different. Very consistent. I was kind of surprised, being barrier penetration rounds, that they stopped within the pig. I'd post a photo of the recovered bullets, but can seem to find a way to upload one. Matt |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2012 10:14:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By SharpsShtr:
Gents, I took some handloaded ammo with pulled Mk318s on a feral pig hunt just to see how they'd perform. Only was able to take one pig, a 250 pounder, from fairly short range. Two bullets were recovered from the body cavity. They had both completely shed the nose (the copper and lead) with just the copper shank being left. Remarkably, the remaining weight on the two is only one tenth of a grain different. Very consistent. I was kind of surprised, being barrier penetration rounds, that they stopped within the pig. I'd post a photo of the recovered bullets, but can seem to find a way to upload one. Matt www.tinypic.com Distance and barrel length? Impact point, angle, structures penetrated and distance traveled in said pig? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2013 6:33:41 PM EDT
[#28]
So in your opinion which round is better?
MK 318 or M855 |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2013 11:04:42 PM EDT
[#29]
MK 318
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Posted: 1/7/2013 12:06:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Molon , Thanks !!! That is great information.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/7/2013 12:10:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By tw4:
MK 318 |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:25:47 AM EDT
[#32]
got a box of T556TNB1 this week for testing
Steyr AUG-A1 20" barrel, 1/9 twist 1.5x optic   |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:06:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Talk about thread resurrection.
I haven't seen any of this ammo for sale since Sandy Hook. Where did you find your box for testing? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:10:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Talk about thread resurrection. I haven't seen any of this ammo for sale since Sandy Hook. Where did you find your box for testing? someone at pistol-forums sent it to me. psa just started selling it again for $18/20 |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:43:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12_gauge]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762:
Talk about thread resurrection. I haven't seen any of this ammo for sale since Sandy Hook. Where did you find your box for testing? It's out there. PSA has it. |
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SOM
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Posted: 3/17/2015 1:49:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Interesting article with one of the individuals involved with the development of MK318:
SADJ MK318 article |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2015 2:58:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: vicious_cb]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Interesting article with one of the individuals involved with the development of MK318: SADJ MK318 article Already posted: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/667677_USMC_Gets_the_Silver_Bullet.html |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2015 5:47:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu:
got a box of T556TNB1 this week for testing Steyr AUG-A1 20" barrel, 1/9 twist 1.5x optic http://i58.tinypic.com/2e4fey0.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/8x4lev.jpg more thread resurrection; i had about the same results you did at 50 and 100 yds with my SCAR 16 and an aimpoint. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2015 6:28:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Fantastic report on what appears to be crappy ammo.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2015 10:42:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jmar93: Fantastic report on what appears to be crappy ammo. it seems to meet the same accuracy spec as M193 (<=1" mean radius @100 yds). its terminal ballistics though is a huge improvement over M193/M855. i'm really curious what the changes in the Mod 1 version will do |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2015 9:35:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jmar93:
Fantastic report on what appears to be crappy ammo. crappy ammo? i recall reading the Marines that used it in afganastan were happy with its terminal effects. it'd take a pallet of this over any fmj. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2015 4:14:28 PM EDT
[#42]
resurrecting this thread since its relevant to my interests and others here. i was zero'ing this mk318 on paper one day at 50 yds and poked around the dirt behind my box and found the slug. i had some hornady 55gr GMX with me too so i shot one into the soft dirt (soft for southern AZ, so it wasnt just solid rock!).
50 yards with a 2 MOA aimpoint...4 inch black circles, shooting off of a bipod... 
GMX mushroomed on the left side, mk318 on the right 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2016 3:54:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JSmithXYY]
[#43]
THX OP!!!
so some guy called po boy special, has a youtube channel, maybe has an acct here, maybe someone already mentioned this between the OP and here, but that fellow tested like a copule dozen types of ammo from his 7.5" AR. There is youtube playlist on his channel and a spread sheet you can download from his site. Of all the rounds, 14 fragged &/or expanded, 11 penetrated to 12" or greater. of all of them that had an expanded slug left, the mk318 expanded to .461" and partially fragged. penetration was a little much, 21.5". Energy was a respectable 700 ft-lbs at the muzzle, 2255 fps. Thoug the penetration may be higher than is ideal for many scenarios, this had the best all around performance, IMO. Retained weight was 46 grains here is vid for that test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNekOq9CBQA&index=21&list=PLW31XX5XBJOrDU1GQhsKrFBUsJjo5RWPd |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 1:58:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Energy was a respectable 700 ft-lbs at the muzzle, 2255 fps. Energy transfer is not a wounding mechanism for small arms fire. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WOUND BALLISTICS LITERATURE, AND WHY by M.L. Fackler, M.D. Letterman Army Institute of Research Division of Military Trauma Research Presidio of San Francisco, California 94219 Institute Report No. 239 The “Shock Wave” Myth By Dr. Martin Fackler Wound Ballistics Review, Winter 1991 and the Journal of Trauma, (29[10]: 1455, 1989). Ballistic Injury By Dr. Martin Fackler Annals of Emergency Medicine, December 1986 Bullet Penetration By Duncan MacPherson Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness By Special Agent Urey W. Patrick Firearms Training Unit FBI Academy |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 11:39:35 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 2/27/2016 12:39:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Just bought a thousand pulled MK 318 Mod 0 projectiles. This thread is relative to my interests!
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2016 2:48:40 PM EDT
[#47]
that round from the video travelling at 2250 is interesting in that the pedals peeled back and stayed on the base. i'm guessing that at higher velocity is when the pedals sheer off. now where is that theshold?
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2016 12:19:32 AM EDT
[#48]
I have had good results with 25.0 gr of cfe 223 and #41 primers
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2016 7:44:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: supermanct]
[#49]
i have had better luck with milder loads
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Posted: 3/20/2016 2:52:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu:
it seems to meet the same accuracy spec as M193 (<=1" mean radius @100 yds). its terminal ballistics though is a huge improvement over M193/M855. i'm really curious what the changes in the Mod 1 version will do Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu:
Originally Posted By jmar93:
Fantastic report on what appears to be crappy ammo. it seems to meet the same accuracy spec as M193 (<=1" mean radius @100 yds). its terminal ballistics though is a huge improvement over M193/M855. i'm really curious what the changes in the Mod 1 version will do A couple of the goals for the new projectile are that is to be "barrier blind" and "limits fragmentation." Since they supposedly (I haven't seen any actual cross sections yet) will "replace the lead with copper" in the new projectile, it sounds like it will be a 62 grain monolithic hollow-point; but who knows. One would expect terminal performance to be similar to the 62 grain TSX. ... |
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