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Posted: 7/23/2010 7:44:34 AM EDT
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I've got this stuff by Federal in 55g and have found it to be only sold to Law Enforcement of which I am not a part of. What is it about this stuff that makes it so special? The BT? The HP? The BTHP combo? I was told to keep it as defensive ammo but I normally think of BT ammo as longer range stuff and my 16" carbine doesn't really cut it there.
Had a guy on Craiglist try trading me an ACOG for it that he "got from a buddy" but it was a fake due to it's lack of serial number. Anyway just wanted to get some input on the quality and what to expect from this stuff. |
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t223e is on the box.
http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/rifle/tacticaltru.aspx I hadn't seen this link before. I guess it's actually MatchKing and not Game King as I'd previously stated. |
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t223e is on the box. http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/rifle/tacticaltru.aspx I hadn't seen this link before. I guess it's actually MatchKing and not Game King as I'd previously stated. No, it is part of their Game King line. This is the same as their V-Shok item: P223E See its performance here: 223 Rifle Data Book Vol. 1 |
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I wasn't aware that any companies would release data like you posted. That's pretty cool stuff. Can't realize decide what this ones intended purpose might be really. Seems like it penetrated deeper than other choices in some materials Keep it, or sell it. Your choice. This round does do anything that the V-Shok version can. If someone REALLY want this ammo (because it is LE or says 'Tactical' on it) by all means sell it to that person and then buy something else. Federal (to include Fusion) makes loads that are good for .223/5.56 rifles/carbines in a SD/HD situation. |
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That hp was actually designed to be used in the 22-250 as a long range varmint bullet. At 222/223 velocities it is actually a little on the "hard" side. It works very well on medium sized game due to it's "hard" characteristic. I would think it would be a good s.d. round.
P |
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I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. |
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I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. I think you're mistaken on your GameKing description. AFAIK the GK is only available as a soft point bullet. The MatchKing on the other hand is also not really a hollowpoint but is considered an OTM (Open Tip Match) bullet. The OTM design is for accuracy. Sierra does not recommend the MK bullet for hunting. Funny though because it actually has better fragmenting characteristics than the M193 rounds. It's so good in fact it's what is being used on the MK262 round used by Operators. And FWIW the GK is available on Federal loaded ammunition. But I could be incorrect about the GK and some being hollowpoints. I've not seen one however. |
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I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. The .224 bthp is NOT a fragmenting bullet. The .308 BTHP is one tough customer. Did you wind up loading any and using them on any critters? P |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. I think you're mistaken on your GameKing description. AFAIK the GK is only available as a soft point bullet. The MatchKing on the other hand is also not really a hollowpoint but is considered an OTM (Open Tip Match) bullet. The OTM design is for accuracy. Sierra does not recommend the MK bullet for hunting. Funny though because it actually has better fragmenting characteristics than the M193 rounds. It's so good in fact it's what is being used on the MK262 round used by Operators. And FWIW the GK is available on Federal loaded ammunition. But I could be incorrect about the GK and some being hollowpoints. I've not seen one however. Federal does load the GK in 223 and 22-250. The Mk262 Mod 0 is Sierra, Mod 1 is Hornady. The MK is a hollow point and is stated as such in the Sierra reloading manuals. You are correct that the purpose is accuracy not expansion. P |
Match King and Game King are different lines.
Bullets |
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Quoted: the link I provided in my reply has another link to the full line of gameking bullets, including the hollowpoints.Quoted: I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. I think you're mistaken on your GameKing description. AFAIK the GK is only available as a soft point bullet. The MatchKing on the other hand is also not really a hollowpoint but is considered an OTM (Open Tip Match) bullet. . . And FWIW the GK is available on Federal loaded ammunition. But I could be incorrect about the GK and some being hollowpoints. I've not seen one however. I didn't want to clutter up my first reply with both. HERE ya go |
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Quoted: The .224 bthp is NOT a fragmenting bullet. The .308 BTHP is one tough customer. Did you wind up loading any and using them on any critters? P Nope, shooting mostly AMAX 168's with some nosler custom competition 175s. Nothing furry since I started reloading this year. Just steel. |
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The .224 bthp is NOT a fragmenting bullet. The .308 BTHP is one tough customer. Did you wind up loading any and using them on any critters? P Nope, shooting mostly AMAX 168's with some nosler custom competition 175s. Nothing furry since I started reloading this year. Just steel. Cool. If I recall correctly the GK bthp was designed to compete with the NP years ago. The jacket is extremely tough and thick, even noticibly so when one examines the open tip. it is designated in their manuals as a large game round from the 120gr .257 and up. P |
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the link I provided in my reply has another link to the full line of gameking bullets, including the hollowpoints.
Quoted:
I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. I think you're mistaken on your GameKing description. AFAIK the GK is only available as a soft point bullet. The MatchKing on the other hand is also not really a hollowpoint but is considered an OTM (Open Tip Match) bullet. . . And FWIW the GK is available on Federal loaded ammunition. But I could be incorrect about the GK and some being hollowpoints. I've not seen one however. I didn't want to clutter up my first reply with both. HERE ya go Well I'll be! Guess they do make some HP in the GK line. Guess I missed that when I first looked at that page. Nice find. Quoted:
Federal does load the GK in 223 and 22-250. The Mk262 Mod 0 is Sierra, Mod 1 is Hornady. The MK is a hollow point and is stated as such in the Sierra reloading manuals. You are correct that the purpose is accuracy not expansion. P It is my understanding the main difference between Mod 0 and Mod 1 is the cannelure on the bullet. Also the way I understand the way the MK262 evolved was they tested using Nosler 77 gr OTMs w/cannelure and ordered somewhere around a million rounds via the existing SOCOM contract the however the actual multi million round contract went to the Sierra bullet. This was in the past however and things could have changed. |
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the link I provided in my reply has another link to the full line of gameking bullets, including the hollowpoints.
Quoted:
I was under the impression that the Gameking is a Sierra bullet, not a loaded cartridge. There are 2 styles of gameking bullet: soft point and hollowpoint. Both are boat tailed bullets. Searching for feadback on 308 gameking hollowpoints as a reloading component, I found lots of people who found them to be extremely close to the matchking in accuracy and excellent (very consistent) in stopping game. Seems one difference between the gameking (GK) hollowpoint and the matchking (MK) is a larger open tip on the GK. I suppose a 55 grain HPBT with unusually large open tip would fragment extremely well at the velocities in question. Probably come up on the short side for penetration (if less than 12" is short to you). If you have the luxury of choosing a special bullet for each situation, then there may be a place in your quiver for such a beast. I think you're mistaken on your GameKing description. AFAIK the GK is only available as a soft point bullet. The MatchKing on the other hand is also not really a hollowpoint but is considered an OTM (Open Tip Match) bullet. . . And FWIW the GK is available on Federal loaded ammunition. But I could be incorrect about the GK and some being hollowpoints. I've not seen one however. I didn't want to clutter up my first reply with both. HERE ya go Well I'll be! Guess they do make some HP in the GK line. Guess I missed that when I first looked at that page. Nice find. Quoted:
Federal does load the GK in 223 and 22-250. The Mk262 Mod 0 is Sierra, Mod 1 is Hornady. The MK is a hollow point and is stated as such in the Sierra reloading manuals. You are correct that the purpose is accuracy not expansion. P It is my understanding the main difference between Mod 0 and Mod 1 is the cannelure on the bullet. Also the way I understand the way the MK262 evolved was they tested using Nosler 77 gr OTMs w/cannelure and ordered somewhere around a million rounds via the existing SOCOM contract the however the actual multi million round contract went to the Sierra bullet. This was in the past however and things could have changed. Nosler NOT Hornady...brain fart on my part. I don't know about the origins but I do know that Mod 0 is Sierra and Mod 1 is Nosler. P |
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P,
Somebody has given you some bad info on the bullet used in the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge. As stated above, the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 0 cartridge used a non-cannelured SIERRA 77gr. OTM bullet & the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge uses a cannelured/crimped SIERRA 77gr. OTM bullet. The NOSLER 77gr. OTM bullet was used in the early BLACK HILLS 5.56MM SAMPLE cartridge that was developed into the 5.56MM LR AA53 MK 262 MOD 0/1 cartridges using the SIERRA MATCHKING 77gr. OTM bullet. Carey Edit: Below are 4 different boxes/versions of Black Hills MK 262 MOD 0 & MK 262 MOD 1: (bottom-top) MK 262 MOD 0 20rd. box, MK 262 MOD 1 20rd. box, MK 262 MOD 1 50rd. commercial box, & MK 262 MOD 1 SECONDS 50rd. box. The MK 262 MOD 1 50rd. commercial lists " 77 GR MATCHKING OTM" on the box itself. All MK 262 MOD 0/1 cartridges use WCC 5.56mm brass, have crimped primer pockets, and utilize a 77gr. SIERRA MATCHKING OTM bullet. But only the MK 262 MOD 1 cartridges have a LIGHTLY cannelured/crimped bullet. BLACK HILLS may well have used this light cannelure on the bullet in an effort not to distort it and preserve the inherent accuracy of the non-cannelured bullet. After testing 5 or more lots of BLACK HILLS MK 262 ammunition for accuracy, all lots clearly demonstrated the ability to group 0.8 MOA or better out to 750yds. in an accurized 5.56mm rifle (as long as I did my part). We used the .30 cal SIERRA 168gr BTHP INTERNATIONAL bullet for accuracy in the '70s & '80s and DOD finally produced/standardized that bullet in 7.62MM as the M852 around 1981-82. But for general hunting, many of us used the SIERRA 165gr. BTHP in 7.62mm, 30-06, and .300WM. The 165 BTHP gives up quite a bit of BC compared to the 168gr INTL, but it easily shot sub-MOA groups at normal hunting ranges with the added advantage of not blunting the bullet noses in the mag on recoil. The SIERRA 165gr. BTHP expands VERY rapidly usually resulting in bullet jacket/core separation. I have seen the results of SIERRA 165gr. BTHP use on several hundred whitetail since 1978. 
MK 262 MOD 1 commercial 50rd. box & WCC 06 with NATO cross marked cartridge: 
Pulled MK 262 MOD 1 77 GR. SIERRA MATCHKING OTM is on the bottom: note the VERY LIGHT cannelure compared to other military bullet cannelures: (bottom-top) BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 1, LC M856 TRACER, & FEDERAL AA40 FRANGIBLE 
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P, Somebody has given you some bad info on the bullet used in the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge. As stated above, the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 0 cartridge used a non-cannelured SIERRA 77gr. OTM bullet & the BLACK HILLS MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge uses a cannelured/crimped SIERRA 77gr. OTM bullet. The NOSLER 77gr. OTM bullet was used in the early BLACK HILLS 5.56MM SAMPLE cartridge that was developed into the 5.56MM LR AA53 MK 262 MOD 0/1 cartridges using the SIERRA MATCHKING 77gr. OTM bullet. Carey OK Are you sure the cannelured version is not a Hornady? I was almost positive the Mod 1 is a different manufactures bullet. P |
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